Is Hell eternal?

[Kan]

22 hours ago, angels4u said:

Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Kan if you look it as this verse explains ..the people in hell will live forever and ever..

You may be right, but I have not found any scriptures that say the wicked live forever, but rather there are hundreds of texts which say they will perish. But if we say that perish means to live forever, then we have either a fault with languages or we are not in line with what the Bible teaches.

I have never heard of a text that says people are immortal, or have an immortal component, apart from the words of evil angels.

[Kan]

9 hours ago, MorningGlory said:

Agenda, right there.  Kan, what are you trying to achieve here?  And for whom?

I don't understand how people have concluded from the Bible, that God sustains the life of the sinner forever. That is not death, that is eternal life, which as far as I have read only belongs to the righteous. 

The doctrine of an eternal spirit within humans will remain widely accepted in the world right until the end. It will never be challenged, but rather 'proven' to be so, by incredible miracles, such as "dead relatives appearing and telling people about the life after death, and the conditions to meet it."

 

[Kan]

53 minutes ago, thereselittleflower said:

How can you have everlasting destruction?  That means destruction going on for everlasting, not something that happens and is done with.

Have you looked at the underlying Greek to see what it says in the original language?

The word translated "destruction" means punishment.

• ὄλεθρος ólethros, ol'-eth-ros; from a primary ὄλλυμι óllymi (to destroy; a prolonged form); ruin, i.e. death, punishment:—destruction.
• ruin, destroy, death

 

so everlasting death, everlasting punishment, everlasting ruin.

 

 

I agree.

If God says that the punishment/destruction/flames/smoke/torment is everlasting, we know He means what He says. There is nothing that can turn this death away, nothing that can survive it. But to turn around and say that something will survive that, and even beat it forever, is saying that sin cannot be destroyed, which is a lie.

[Kan]

8 hours ago, Ezra said:

Why would the Holy Spirit call "destruction" everlasting unless that is indeed the case? There goes your theory.

Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; (2 Thess 1:9).

 

Secondly “destruction” (Gk appolumi) in Scripture does NOT MEAN “gone poof”.  Please note from Vine’s Expository Dictionary:

 

<A-1,Verb,622,apollumi> 
a strengthened form of ollumi, signifies "to destroy utterly;" in Middle Voice, "to perish." The idea is not extinction but ruin, loss, not of being, but of well-being. This is clear from its use, as, e.g., of the marring of wine skins, Luke 5:37; of lost sheep, i.e., lost to the shepherd, metaphorical of spiritual destitution, Luke 15:4,6, etc.; the lost son, Luke 15:24; of the perishing of food, John 6:27; of gold, 1 Pet. 1:7. So of persons, Matt. 2:13, "destroy;" Matt. 8:25, "perish;" Matt. 22:7; 27:20; of the loss of well-being in the case of the unsaved hereafter, Matt. 10:28; Luke 13:3,5; John 3:16 (ver. 15 in some mss.); 10:28; 17:12; Rom. 2:12; 1 Cor. 15:18; 2 Cor. 2:15, "are perishing;" 2 Cor. 4:3; 2 Thess. 2:10; Jas. 4:12; 2 Pet. 3:9. Cp. B, II, No. 1. See DIE, LOSE, MARRED, PERISH.

 

 

 

It is not that people interpret different Greek words as Hell, but the use of "hell" by the KJV translators indiscriminately.  We are talking about the Lake of Fire, also called gehenna. Let's leave Hades etc. out of the discussion.

Ezra,

I believe we would know by an encounter with God, that sinners cannot endure His presence, it is an everlasting destruction, it never ceases to burn against anything contrary to life, because He is everlasting. On the other hand it is impossible to perish under His approval. He gives everlasting life.

But show us one text that God gives everlasting life to the unrepentant, or that people are everlasting on any level while disobedient to God...

I bet you can't do it.

[Kan]

You can have everlasting death, destruction, flames, torment which goes through day and night, and so on, but an everlasting sinner? All we need is one text to prove it.

We also need some texts that says, that when God says "death," He actually means "life." And when God says "mortal" He means "immortal." 

The whole doctrine of eternal human components comes from the first foundation lie of Satan's kingdom - "You shall surely not die, but ye shall be as gods..."

Who is right? the Devil or God?

Do sinners die or do they live forever? Are the wages of sin death or everlasting life?

Did Jesus die on the cross or did He wander around visiting souls in the underworld?

Now if He did not die, then the Gospel is a farce, according to Paul. 

Was Jesus acting or did He actually die for us?

I know the rebuttals for that one - the human being is made up of different components, and the body died but the ghost went on living. Now where does it say in the Bible that the human being has such an immortal component?

 Nowhere.

[enoob57]

1 hour ago, Kan said:

You can have everlasting death, destruction, flames, torment which goes through day and night, and so on, but an everlasting sinner? All we need is one text to prove it.

We also need some texts that says, that when God says "death," He actually means "life." And when God says "mortal" He means "immortal." 

The whole doctrine of eternal human components comes from the first foundation lie of Satan's kingdom - "You shall surely not die, but ye shall be as gods..."

Who is right? the Devil or God?

Do sinners die or do they live forever? Are the wages of sin death or everlasting life?

Did Jesus die on the cross or did He wander around visiting souls in the underworld?

Now if He did not die, then the Gospel is a farce, according to Paul. 

Was Jesus acting or did He actually die for us?

I know the rebuttals for that one - the human being is made up of different components, and the body died but the ghost went on living. Now where does it say in the Bible that the human being has such an immortal component?

 Nowhere.

your problem is in your understanding ... the image of God is an image of God's Being. Eternal life and eternal death is not
length of time as you indicate but a quality of life... To God 1000 years and 1 day are the same for the borders of exist are
not there! We are to reason spiritually as God reasons and your simply are not there yet!  Love, Steven

[enoob57]

1 hour ago, Kan said:

You can have everlasting death, destruction, flames, torment which goes through day and night, and so on, but an everlasting sinner? All we need is one text to prove it.

We also need some texts that says, that when God says "death," He actually means "life." And when God says "mortal" He means "immortal." 

The whole doctrine of eternal human components comes from the first foundation lie of Satan's kingdom - "You shall surely not die, but ye shall be as gods..."

Who is right? the Devil or God?

Do sinners die or do they live forever? Are the wages of sin death or everlasting life?

Did Jesus die on the cross or did He wander around visiting souls in the underworld?

Now if He did not die, then the Gospel is a farce, according to Paul. 

Was Jesus acting or did He actually die for us?

I know the rebuttals for that one - the human being is made up of different components, and the body died but the ghost went on living. Now where does it say in the Bible that the human being has such an immortal component?

 Nowhere.

It is framed in our begin... If we are the image of God one only needs to ask how long does God last?
Realizing God 'IS' Spirit and now body as well we frame our understanding toward His Being... the others
do not! Love, Steven

[thereselittleflower]

2 hours ago, Kan said:

I agree.

If God says that the punishment/destruction/flames/smoke/torment is everlasting, we know He means what He says. There is nothing that can turn this death away, nothing that can survive it. But to turn around and say that something will survive that, and even beat it forever, is saying that sin cannot be destroyed, which is a lie.

Definition of "Everlasting"

• ev·er·last·ing
  ˌevərˈlastiNG/

  adjective

   

  1. 1.

     lasting forever or for a very long time.

 

 

[Ezra]

5 hours ago, Kan said:

But show us one text that God gives everlasting life to the unrepentant, or that people are everlasting on any level while disobedient to God...

I bet you can't do it.

Kan,

You have set up a straw man and expect to get some serious response. Of course God does not give everlasting "life" to the unrepentant and the unsaved.  But He does give everlasting death -- the second death -- to those who enter the Lake of Fire.

I would caution you to not make this doctrine a football for debate.  There are numerous warnings in Scripture about the eternal damnation of souls which are lost. If you refuse to believe that, then you are actually disbelieving the Word.  If you refuse to preach that, you are preaching another Gospel, and you should know how God regards those who preach another Gospel.

[Shar]

Hell is not Hades.  Hades in the New Testament is the same place as Sheol in the OT.  Before the cross, Hades was a holding place for the dead.  It was two compartments.  Paradise and Torments.  Lk.16:19-31.  Hades' nature changed after the cross.  After His death Jesus descended there and preached to the spirits. I Pe.3:18-19, 4:6.  After His resurrection, He took Paradise with Him.  Ep.4:8-9 & 2 Cor.12:1-4. The souls of the unrighteous remain in Hades.

Question is:  How long will they be tormented?   Traditional view is forever.  The other view, is that immortality is conditional, depending on acceptance of Christ.  We must remember our beliefs on the duration of Hell is not cardinal doctrine, but we nevertheless need to know it is a dreadful place.

My first difficulty with the traditional view it seems to impugn His loving, merciful character.  I know He is holy and righteous, but is it HIs plan to eternally torment the vast majority of mankind, who is created in His image?

Second, eternal torment is contrary to some Biblical examples.  God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah with fire suddenly and quickly.  Destroyed the evil world of Noah, suddenly and quickly, order Canaanites killed swiftly.  In the law of Moses there was no provision for incarceration or torture.  Even sacrificial animals were to be killed with a precise method for quick and painless death. 

Third, it seems to contradict a descriptive phrase to describe Hell as the "second death".

Fourth, Hell is referred to as the place of destruction.  Jesus says in Mt.10:28,"Do not fear those who can kill the body, but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to DESTROY both soul and body in Hell.  John 3:16....that whosoever believes in him shall not PERISH, but have eternal life."  These words mean that..  Destroy and Perish.  Poof, gone.

Fifth, there is a difference between eternal punishment and eternal punishing.  You may experience a punishment that has eternal consequences but does not mean it will go on for eternity.  Rev14:9-11 speaks of their torment goes up forever and ever.  It does not speak of eternal torment, but that the smoke of their torment is ascending forever.  This is a testimony or a reminder.  This is also referred as a reminder in the destruction of Edom in IS.34:10.  Edom exists today.  It does not have smoke ascending.  Obviously, this is a symbolic reference.  This is also stated in Jude 7 regarding Sodom and Gomorrah.

Sixth, Hell was created for Satan and his angels.  We see Satan will be thrown into the bottomless pit and tormented for ever and ever, along with the Beast and False Prophet.

Lastly, I Timothy 6:15-16 states ONLY God alone possesses immorality.  I Cor. 15:53 states the redeemed will not become immortal until the time of their resurrection.  In other words, it is a gift of God. 

This begs the question.  Can Hell be really eternal if the soul is not intrinsically immortal?

Nevertheless, there will be a time where the souls of the unrighteous will experience time in Torments within Hell, but Revelation 20:14 clearly states that DEATH and HADES were thrown into the lake of fire.  They are destroyed.  After the great white throne judgment, those not written in the Book of Life are also thrown into the lake of fire.  It is the second death.  A complete death.