The beast that goes into Perdition

[Sister]

 Jude 1:6   And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

Jude 1:7   Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

 

  1 Corinthians 15:39   All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.
 

 1 Corinthians 15:40   There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.

 

 2 Peter 2:4   For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

  2 Peter 2:5   And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;

  2 Peter 2:6   And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;
 

[MorningGlory]

1 hour ago, Sister said:

 Genesis 6:2   That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

 Genesis 6:4   There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

Those two verses IN NO WAY show that angels are empowered to create.  Not even close.  Good grief.

[thereselittleflower]

 

Quote

God the Son did not mysteriously descend from heaven and just slip on a glove of flesh in the womb of Mary. He was born, a man just like every other man with the exception the spirit within that earthen vessel of humanity was not finite like ours, but in it dwelt the fullness of divinity, the infinite, immortal, and invisible, only wise God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace our Saviour and King. It was through His holy conception and birth that God was manifested in the flesh, and event that that has become defined and extra biblical terms as incarnate, a late middle English word that is derived from ecclesiastical Latin incarnat which simply means “made flesh,” and comes from the verb incarnare which means  in- ‘into’ + caro, carn- ‘flesh.’

That fleshly vessel of humanity was “made flesh in the womb of Mary and “into flesh” came the eternal Spirit of God and thus tabernacled with men. This is what has become known in later years as the hypostatic union of divinity and humanity in one hypothesis.

As far as angel procreating with humanity, the book of Enoch clearly speaks of such, as well as thier meddling with other creatures of God's creation which many feel led to actual existance of so called the "mythical" creatures. Thus givng God cause to not only spare Noah and his

It is true,  God did not simply slip on flesh like a glove.  However, as seen before, this is followed by Christological error which needs be addressed.

When one does not believe in the Trinity, but only sees the Three Divine Persons, not as persons but merely as aspects, this creates error in their Christology - understanding who Christ is - as we see above.    

First our spirits are not finite except in relationship to eternity past.  They come into existence at our conception and continue forever.   

Second, the words above express a heretical notion that Jesus does not have a human spirit or soul.    This is no different than saying that God simply clothed himself with human flesh, but did not have a human soul.  To say that in Jesus' conception the only thing that happened is God was manifested in the flesh, ie that God only took on a physical body would mean God did not truly become man, for to be man means to have a human soul as well as a human body.  

Ariansm, another ancient heresy, taught that Jesus did not have a human spirit or soul.

The Arian heresy states this:

• A summary of the Arian view follows:

  1. The son was created out of nothing; hence, he is different in essence from the Father; that he is Logos, Wisdom, Son of God, is only of grace. He is not so in himself.

  2. There was, when he was not; i.e., he is a finite being.

  3. He was created before everything else, and through him the universe was created and is administered.

  4. In the historical Christ the human element is merely the material; the soul is the Logos. The historical Christ, therefore, had no human soul....

  5. The Arians held, that although the incarnate Logos is finite, and hence not God, he is to be worshipped, as being unspeakably exalted above all other Creatures, the immediate Creator and Governor of the universe, and the Redeemer of man.

  6. The Arians adhered to the Scriptures, and were willing to employ as their own any scriptural statements of doctrine. (A Manual for Church History, p. 327).

In contrast as the Nicene Creed states, and as the Statement of Faith here states:

• We believe in the triunity of God. We believe that God is eternally One, and also eternally the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit — the three being distinct, but not separate. Each Person of the Godhead coexists from everlasting to everlasting.

http://www.worthynetwork.com/statement-of-faith

• We believe in ....And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of the Father before all worlds (æons), Light of Light, very God of very God, begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father; by whom all things were made;

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicene_Creed

 

The Nicene Creed was specifically formulated to combat the Christological heresies of Arianism above.

• 1. The son was NOT created out of nothing; hence, he is NOT different in essence from the Father; that he is Logos, Wisdom, Son of God, is NOT only of grace. He IS so in himself. He is the eternally begotten one with no beginning or end.

  2. There was NOT a time, when he was not; i.e., he is NOT a finite being. He is the eternally begotten one with no beginning or end.

  3. He was NOT created before everything else, and through him the universe was created and is administered.  He is the eternally begotten one with no beginning or end.

  4. In the historical Christ the human element is NOT merely the material; In Christ is  HYPOSTATIC UNION of the human nature of Jesus, which includes the human soul,  with the Divine nature of the Logos, God the Son, The 2nd Person of the Trinity, each, the human nature and divine nature,  fully present, distinct but inseparable. The historical Christ, therefore, HAS a human soul....

  5. The Arians held, that although the incarnate Logos is finite, and hence not God, he is to be worshipped, as being unspeakably exalted above all other Creatures, the immediate Creator and Governor of the universe, and the Redeemer of man.

  6. The Arians adhered to the Scriptures, and were willing to employ as their own any scriptural statements of doctrine. (A Manual for Church History, p. 327).

 

So what we see is an odd blending of Modalism and Arianism.

 

Also, beware of Jewish fables:

• Correcting False Teachers  

  Titus 1    

  13This testimony is true. For this reason reprove them severely so that they may be sound in the faith, 14not paying attention to Jewish myths and commandments of men who turn away from the truth. 15To the pure, all things are pure; but to those who are defiled and unbelieving, nothing is pure, but both their mind and their conscience are defiled

 

 

• Reintroducing the Myth of the
  Fallen Angels into Judaism

  Origin of the Myth of Fallen Angels
  The origin of this modern, romantic fantasy is found in the cryptic opening of the sixth chapter of Genesis, essentially the relic of an ancient mythological saga concerned with the relations between divine beings and mortal women (Gen. 6:1-4). 

  Wings of Desire applauds the angel’s descent to earth, but in the biblical text, as well as in the later expansions of this myth in Second Temple period Jewish literature, the angels’ descent to “tawdry lusts” is linked to the spawning of giants and the corruption of humankind.^[2] 

  The story opens with the proliferation of humans on the face of the earth, and the licentious view of women by the angels.  The text (v. 2) sets up a juxtaposition between these heavenly creatures (benei ha-’elohim, lit. “the sons of God”)^[3] and the women, benot ha-adam (lit. “daughters of the man/ha-Adam”). Breaching the boundary between heaven and earth, the angels take wives from among women whom they choose.

  A Just-So Story about Demigods

  The causal connection between the cohabitation of angels and humans and the genesis of giants, called Nephilim (v. 4), is not explicit in the biblical text; perhaps they simply inhabit the earth at the same time. Nevertheless, the late biblical scholar, Umberto Cassuto (1883-1951) assumes this connection and argues that this passage serves as an etiological account, a ‘just-so-story’, for the existence of these giants/Nephilim and “the heroes of old, the men of renown.”^[4] Born as a consequence of the cohabitation between divine beings and the daughters of men, their name, Nephilim, derives from the verb nafal [נ.פ.ל., meaning “to fall, descend”], and testifies to the demotion of their ancestors, the angels.^[5] 

  ...

  Unlike the long and detailed legends we find in ANE or Greek myth, the account here in the Torah of the demigods is exceedingly terse and contains not even one example of a named hero or a heroic feat. Attempting to explain this, Cassuto writes that the biblical account…

  …compresses its words into a few sentences, as though it wished to convey that it finds the entire topic wholly uncongenial, and that the subject is mentioned not for its own sake but in order to disabuse the reader’s mind of certain notions.  The declaration in v. 3, “My spirit shall not abide in man, etc…” implies: Do not believe the heathen tales about human beings of divine origin, who were rendered immortal; this is untrue, for in the end every man must die, “in as much as he too is flesh.”  The sons that were born from the intercourse of the sons of God with the daughters of men were in truth, gigantic and mighty, yet they did not live forever [לעולם], but had long ago [מעולם], become extinct… the Torah’s intention [then] is to counteract the pagan legends and to reduce to a minimum the content of the ancient traditions concerning the giants.^[6]

  Expanding the Polemic in the Rabbinic Period
  The Rabbis of late antiquity took this polemic further, and overtly condemn the idea that thebenei elohim were angels at all. Instead some rabbis suggest reading elohim as judges or lords.^[7] 

  ר’ שמעון בן יוחי קרי להון בני דייניה, ר’ שמעון בן יוחי מקלל לכל מן דקרי להון בני אלהיא.

  R. Shimon ben Yochai called them the ‘sons of nobles’, and declared: cursed be anyone who calls them angels (Gen. Rab. 26:6).

  The Myth of the Corruption of Humans before the Flood
  in the Second Temple Period

  In the Second Temple period, there were two main expanded versions of the biblical myth, one from the book of 1 Enoch and the other from the book of Jubilees. (For excerpts from these texts, see Appendix 2.) Each uses this myth to account for the existence of evil in the world, and each assumes that the brief story of the Nephilim, which appears immediately before the flood story in the Torah, was meant as an explanation for the flood (the Torah never says this).

More:

• http://thetorah.com/reintroducing-the-myth-of-the-fallen-angels/

 

 

 

[other one]

1 hour ago, BlindSeeker said:

But it needs to be addressed by believers, people can't continue to be willfully ignorant when the Word of God addresses these things in Genesis 6.

It would benefit some people to ask and seek out just where did Tubal-cain learn how to forge tools out of bronze and iron?

The Book of Enoch tells us, as well as where the “science” of abortion came really from.

What about Prometheus? Where did the story of Prometheus come from, and is there any truth behind the so called myth?

Why is Prometheus there in front of the Christmas Tree at Rockefeller Center, what really are they celebrating?

We are doing sperm cell insemination and genetic engineering, are men smarter than the angels? Why really are they trying to create super soldiers? Why are they doing this, "what" really is behind this? I mean besides men believing they can be gods too...

Well, personally i do believe thee is a core bit of truth in most all myths...

As for the thing in front of the Rockefeller Center, one has to go one of two routes....  it  is said that Prometheus was/is the god of arts, so one can think that is what it is saying in front of the Center.....    also to others he is the representation of an entity that fought the gods and won..   That also could be what is being said in front of the Center....   That is a long discussion as to why it could be the last and would probably start a very tacky conversation.  Most likely it's saying both.

As for the genetic engineering, the books of Jasher and Jubilees tell us that the angels, before the flood, taught men how to mix different species to make new and different animals.  It's been a long time, but I think they accused Azazel of doing that.   I think there is a lot more going on in the genetic thing than we can know or maybe even imagine.

Carolyn Hamlett might be someone to ask about that.

[BlindSeeker]

2 hours ago, other one said:

Well, personally i do believe thee is a core bit of truth in most all myths...

As for the thing in front of the Rockefeller Center, one has to go one of two routes....  it  is said that Prometheus was/is the god of arts, so one can think that is what it is saying in front of the Center.....    also to others he is the representation of an entity that fought the gods and won..   That also could be what is being said in front of the Center....   That is a long discussion as to why it could be the last and would probably start a very tacky conversation.  Most likely it's saying both.

As for the genetic engineering, the books of Jasher and Jubilees tell us that the angels, before the flood, taught men how to mix different species to make new and different animals.  It's been a long time, but I think they accused Azazel of doing that.   I think there is a lot more going on in the genetic thing than we can know or maybe even imagine.

Carolyn Hamlett might be someone to ask about that.

From here -

“In Greek mythology, the Titan Prometheus had a reputation as being something of a clever trickster and he famously gave the human race the gift of fire and the skill of metalwork, an action for which he was punished by Zeus, who ensured everyday that an eagle ate the liver of the Titan as he was helplessly chained to a rock. 

Prometheus (Forethought) was one of the ringleaders of the battle between the Titans and the Olympian gods led by Zeus to gain control of the heavens...”

Basically, Greek Mythology is a twisting of real events to explain to humanity things that were more apparent at one time exchanging the truth for a lie that mirrors the truth… but robs God of all His glory. It was to glorify the fallen angels and to make heroes out of them in the eyes of the ignorant.

 

[BlindSeeker]

3 hours ago, MorningGlory said:

Those two verses IN NO WAY show that angels are empowered to create.  Not even close.  Good grief.

I agree with what you technically are saying, but the assertion is that the angels found a way to procreate with women and their offspring were nephillim, or giants... which I do believe occured.

[BlindSeeker]

Here is a site that has a few good historical references, including Josephus, regarding the angels procreating with the daughters of men.

Plus, here is an excerpt for the Targum of Jonathan Ben Uzziel On the Pentateuch

VI. And it was when the sons of men began to multiply upon the face of the earth, and fair daughters were born to them; and the sons of the great saw that the daughters of men were beautiful, and painted, and curled, walking with revelation of the flesh, and with imaginations of wickedness; that they took them wives of all who pleased them. And the Lord said by His Word, All the generations of the wicked which are to arise shall not be purged after the order of the judgments of the generation of the deluge, which shall be destroyed and exterminated from the midst of the world. Have I not imparted My Holy Spirit to them, (or, placed My Holy Spirit in them,) that they may work good works? And, behold, their works are wicked. Behold, I will give them a prolongment of a hundred and twenty years, that they may work repentance, and not perish.

[JERUSALEM. And the Word of the Lord said, The generations which are to arise shall not be judged after (the manner of) the generation of the deluge, (which is) to be destroyed, and exterminated, and finally blotted out. Have I not imparted My Spirit to the sons of men, because they are flesh, that they may work good works? But they do works of evil. Behold, I have given them a prolongment of a hundred and twenty years, that they may work repentance; but they have not done it.]

Schamchazai and Uzziel, who fell from heaven, were on the earth in those days; and also, after the sons of the Great had gone in with the daughters of men, they bare to them: and these are they who are called men who are of the world, men of names.

 

[thereselittleflower]

 

We must be ever careful not to major on minors.

 

 

[n2thelight]

6 hours ago, BlindSeeker said:

From here -

“In Greek mythology, the Titan Prometheus had a reputation as being something of a clever trickster and he famously gave the human race the gift of fire and the skill of metalwork, an action for which he was punished by Zeus, who ensured everyday that an eagle ate the liver of the Titan as he was helplessly chained to a rock.

Prometheus (Forethought) was one of the ringleaders of the battle between the Titans and the Olympian gods led by Zeus to gain control of the heavens...”

Basically, Greek Mythology is a twisting of real events to explain to humanity things that were more apparent at one time exchanging the truth for a lie that mirrors the truth… but robs God of all His glory. It was to glorify the fallen angels and to make heroes out of them in the eyes of the ignorant.

 

Could not agree more,just like the entire word of God is written in the stars,however man has corrupted that as well...

[n2thelight]

22 hours ago, thereselittleflower said:

But this is it gdemoss -  words mean something.  We can't just be throwing words around willy nilly like that.

Procreation is not Incarnation.

Procreate means to reproduce

God did not reproduce Himself.  He came down from heaven and was INCARNATED (not procreated) in the womb of Mary in the person of Jesus.

God became embodied in Jesus.

Angels do not have sex with women, procreate - ie reproduce,  and then become embodied in their offspring.

 

What prevents spirits from doing what God did?

GOD DOES!

 

The Incarnation was a singular event in our salvific history.    It is reserved for God alone.

 

 

 

Flower

When do you believe we were created?Do you feel it's at inception?If so how do you explain why God hated Esau before he was born?

Romans 9:11 "(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of Him That calleth;"

Romans 9:13 "As it is written "Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated."

 

And how did He know Jermaiah before he was born.

Jeremiah 1:5 "Before I formed thee in the belly I know thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations."

 

Now thinking I know what your answer will be,and like most,you'll say,because God knows everthing.

 

Me on the other hand I take that verse to mean just what it says,He knew him,meaning personally He knew him,just like me knowing my best friend...