fulfilled feasts

[thereselittleflower]

7 hours ago, Shar said:

True, Jesus is the only atoning sacrifice.  When He returns, they recognize Him as the Messiah and believe on Him.  In that one day, they are saved.  Yom Kippur is also a time for afflicting your soul, confessing and repenting from one's sin.

This day will be the time of Israel's repentance.  When Jesus comes to establish His throne, Israel will look on Him whom they have pierced and MOURN for Him as one mourns for their only child.  Ze. 12-13.  The nation of Israel's sin will be dealt with in that one day.  He will cleanse the people and the nation from all their sins and impurities.  God promises will remember their sins no more.  On that day, God will pour out a spirit of grace and supplication upon His people.  God pours His atoning sacrifice on them.

They will know and have the true salvation, as we know and have,  through their Messiah.  Theirs is coming in one day.

That's not what Yom Kippur is about.  

Yom Kippur is about the atoning sacrifice, and the High Priest taking its blood into the Holy of Holies.

God already poured out His Spirit on Pentacost - on the Jewish believers - The Apostles, and from that point is given to ALL believers - first to the Jews then to the Gentiles.

Saying that this will happen to the Jewish people on Yom Kippur is only that - saying it.   

Paul tells us Yom Kippur has already been fulfilled by Jesus.

• Hebrews 9  6Now when these things have been so prepared, the priests are continually entering the outer tabernacle performing the divine worship,7but into the second, only the high priest enters once a year, not without taking blood, which he offers for himself and for the sins of the people committed in ignorance. 8The Holy Spirit is signifying this, that the way into the holy place has not yet been disclosed while the outer tabernacle is still standing, 9which is a symbol for the present time. Accordingly both gifts and sacrifices are offered which cannot make the worshiper perfect in conscience, 10since they relate only to food and drink and various washings, regulations for the body imposed until a time of reformation.

        11But when Christ appeared as a high priest of the good things to come, He entered through the greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this creation; 12and not through the blood of goats and calves, but through His own blood, He entered the holy place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption. 13For if the blood of goats and bulls and the ashes of a heifer sprinkling those who have been defiled sanctify for the cleansing of the flesh, 14how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without blemish to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

Yom Kippur requires the High Priest entering the Holy of Holies.

Paul has just told us Jesus ALREADY entered the Holy of Holies ONCE AND FOR ALL, into the more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, having obtained an enternal redemption.

The Greek word for "once for all" Paul used means:

• ἐφάπαξ ephápax, ef-ap'-ax; from G1909 and G530; upon one occasion (only):—(at) once (for all).

Thayer's Greek lexicon states it's use in this verse is the same as  OUR "once for all" 

• Thayer's Greek Lexicon
  STRONGS NT 2178: ἐφάπαξ
  
  ἐφάπαξ (Treg. in Heb. ἐφ' ἅπαξ; cf. Lipsius, gram. Unters., p. 127), adverb (from ἐπί and ἅπαξ (cf. Winers Grammar, 422 (393);Buttmann, 321 (275))), once; at once i. e.

  a. our all at once: 1 Corinthians 15:6.

  b. our once for all: Romans 6:10; Hebrews 7:27; Hebrews 9:12; Hebrews 10:10. (Lucian, Dio Cassius, others.)

What is "our once for all"  ?

• • once and for all (or once for all)
    phrase of once

     

    1. 1.

       now and for the last time; finally.

  1.  
  1.  

      

      

Paul has clearly stated that Jesus  ONCE AND FOR ALL, for the LAST TIME, FINALLY entered the HOLY OF HOLIES as High Priest, through the greater and more perfect Tabernacle, not made with hands, through His OWN BLOOD.

He did this ONCE AND FOR ALL, for the LAST TIME, FINALLY.

Since He entered the Holy of Holies as High Priest already, ONCE AND FOR ALL, FOR THE LAST TIME, FINALLY, He is not going to enter the Holy of Holies again, and certainly not an inferior, earthly one to the one He has already entered.

He already fulfilled Yom Kippur ONCE AND FOR ALL, for the LAST TIME, FINALLY.

 

 

 

 

[Qnts2]

59 minutes ago, Willa said:

 

 

I agree with Qnts, and have always maintained that we really have to be Jewish to fully understand Scripture and to understand the prophecies of the end times as predicted by the feasts.  Even much of what Jesus said throughout the Gospels is referring to portions of the Tabernacle and the feasts.  As gentiles, we don't pick up on it.  But "completed" Messianic Jews have much more light on it all.  

Yom Kippur is the day when the Nation of Israel repents for rejecting their Messiah.  We don't understand that God deals with Israel as a nation.  We think only in terms of individuals.  This is where the misunderstanding arises.  God will restore the Nation of Israel.   All of the promises to her will be fulfilled as to her bounderies, her removal of the partial blindness, and her complete restoration. That is the fulfillment of the fall feasts, after the fullness of the gentiles has come in. 

Thank you, Qnts.  I do have some reservation about the last portion of your explanation  ( second post in this thread).  Probably I just don't understand.  The great white throne judgement came to mind with the reading of the Torah.  But I really don't know much about this portion.  But I want to copy and save your explaination.  Wish I had you for a Bible teacher.  

Blessings,

Willa

Lev 23:³⁹ ‘On exactly the fifteenth day of the seventh month, when you have gathered in the crops of the land, you shall celebrate the feast of the Lord for seven days, with a rest on the first day and a rest on the eighth day. ⁴⁰ Now on the first day you shall take for yourselves the foliage of beautiful trees, palm branches and boughs of leafy trees and willows of the brook, and you shall rejoice before the Lord your God for seven days. ⁴¹ You shall thus celebrate it as a feast to the Lord for seven days in the year. It shall be a perpetual statute throughout your generations; you shall celebrate it in the seventh month. ⁴² You shall live in booths for seven days; all the native-born in Israel shall live in booths, ⁴³ so that your generations may know that I had the sons of Israel live in booths when I brought them out from the land of Egypt.

The above verses are explaining the Feast of Booths. The Feast of Booths is celebrated for 7 days. In Verse 39, it mentions a rest of the first day, and a rest on the 8th day, but the Feast of Booths is 7 days. The final day, actually on the 8th day is called Shemini Atzeret, which means 8th day assembly. Shemini Atzeret is also called Simchat Torah which means Celebrate Torah.

Succoth/Feast of Booths is the last Holy Day in the year in the Mosaic law, but you have this strange 8th day which is a rest day.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Willa said:

1 hour ago, Willa said:

 

 

I agree with Qnts, and have always maintained that we really have to be Jewish to fully understand Scripture and to understand the prophecies of the end times as predicted by the feasts.  Even much of what Jesus said throughout the Gospels is referring to portions of the Tabernacle and the feasts.  As gentiles, we don't pick up on it.  But "completed" Messianic Jews have much more light on it all.  

Yom Kippur is the day when the Nation of Israel repents for rejecting their Messiah.  We don't understand that God deals with Israel as a nation.  We think only in terms of individuals.  This is where the misunderstanding arises.  God will restore the Nation of Israel.   All of the promises to her will be fulfilled as to her bounderies, her removal of the partial blindness, and her complete restoration. That is the fulfillment of the fall feasts, after the fullness of the gentiles has come in. 

Thank you, Qnts.  I do have some reservation about the last portion of your explanation  ( second post in this thread).  Probably I just don't understand.  The great white throne judgement came to mind with the reading of the Torah.  But I really don't know much about this portion.  But I want to copy and save your explaination.  Wish I had you for a Bible teacher.  

Blessings,

Willa

 

I agree with Qnts, and have always maintained that we really have to be Jewish to fully understand Scripture and to understand the prophecies of the end times as predicted by the feasts.  Even much of what Jesus said throughout the Gospels is referring to portions of the Tabernacle and the feasts.  As gentiles, we don't pick up on it.  But "completed" Messianic Jews have much more light on it all.  

Yom Kippur is the day when the Nation of Israel repents for rejecting their Messiah.  We don't understand that God deals with Israel as a nation.  We think only in terms of individuals.  This is where the misunderstanding arises.  God will restore the Nation of Israel.   All of the promises to her will be fulfilled as to her bounderies, her removal of the partial blindness, and her complete restoration. That is the fulfillment of the fall feasts, after the fullness of the gentiles has come in. 

Thank you, Qnts.  I do have some reservation about the last portion of your explanation  ( second post in this thread).  Probably I just don't understand.  The great white throne judgement came to mind with the reading of the Torah.  But I really don't know much about this portion.  But I want to copy and save your explaination.  Wish I had you for a Bible teacher.  

Blessings,

Willa

In first century Judaism you had various Jewish "understandings". since 70 ad the only Jewish understanding that survived is of one sect which is the sect of the Pharisees. John the Baptist had gained many disciples, and these disciples were those which followed Christ. None were of the sect of the Pharisees. not only that, but God had to open their minds to understand scripture. Paul was given direct revelation concerning what he taught concerning Gentiles. So I would definitely disagree with you on this one.

[Guest]

40 minutes ago, thereselittleflower said:

That's not what Yom Kippur is about.  

Yom Kippur is about the atoning sacrifice, and the High Priest taking its blood into the Holy of Holies.

God already poured out His Spirit on Pentacost - on the Jewish believers - The Apostles, and from that point is given to ALL believers - first to the Jews then to the Gentiles.

Saying that this will happen to the Jewish people on Yom Kippur is only that - saying it.   

Paul tells us Yom Kippur has already been fulfilled by Jesus.

• Hebrews 9  6Now when these things have been so prepared, the priests are continually entering the outer tabernacle performing the divine worship,7but into the second, only the high priest enters once a year, not without taking blood, which he offers for himself and for the sins of the people committed in ignorance. 8The Holy Spirit is signifying this, that the way into the holy place has not yet been disclosed while the outer tabernacle is still standing, 9which is a symbol for the present time. Accordingly both gifts and sacrifices are offered which cannot make the worshiper perfect in conscience, 10since they relate only to food and drink and various washings, regulations for the body imposed until a time of reformation.

        11But when Christ appeared as a high priest of the good things to come, He entered through the greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this creation; 12and not through the blood of goats and calves, but through His own blood, He entered the holy place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption. 13For if the blood of goats and bulls and the ashes of a heifer sprinkling those who have been defiled sanctify for the cleansing of the flesh, 14how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without blemish to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

Yom Kippur requires the High Priest entering the Holy of Holies.

Paul has just told us Jesus ALREADY entered the Holy of Holies ONCE AND FOR ALL, into the more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, having obtained an enternal redemption.

The Greek word for "once for all" Paul used means:

• ἐφάπαξ ephápax, ef-ap'-ax; from G1909 and G530; upon one occasion (only):—(at) once (for all).

Thayer's Greek lexicon states it's use in this verse is the same as  OUR "once for all" 

• Thayer's Greek Lexicon
  STRONGS NT 2178: ἐφάπαξ
  
  ἐφάπαξ (Treg. in Heb. ἐφ' ἅπαξ; cf. Lipsius, gram. Unters., p. 127), adverb (from ἐπί and ἅπαξ (cf. Winers Grammar, 422 (393);Buttmann, 321 (275))), once; at once i. e.

  a. our all at once: 1 Corinthians 15:6.

  b. our once for all: Romans 6:10; Hebrews 7:27; Hebrews 9:12; Hebrews 10:10. (Lucian, Dio Cassius, others.)

What is "our once for all"  ?

• • once and for all (or once for all)
    phrase of once

     

    1. 1.

       now and for the last time; finally.

  1.  
  1.  

      

      

Paul has clearly stated that Jesus  ONCE AND FOR ALL, for the LAST TIME, FINALLY entered the HOLY OF HOLIES as High Priest, through the greater and more perfect Tabernacle, not made with hands, through His OWN BLOOD.

He did this ONCE AND FOR ALL, for the LAST TIME, FINALLY.

Since He entered the Holy of Holies as High Priest already, ONCE AND FOR ALL, FOR THE LAST TIME, FINALLY, He is not going to enter the Holy of Holies again, and certainly not an inferior, earthly one to the one He has already entered.

He already fulfilled Yom Kippur ONCE AND FOR ALL, for the LAST TIME, FINALLY.

 

 

 

 

I agree. It is the plain and clear teaching of Scripture.

[Willa]

John the Baptist was a Nazarite like Sampson.  Many had come to repentance through him who later followed Jesus.  

No one is disputing your scriptures concerning Christ's sacrifice for personal sin.  We are speaking of God's dealings with a nation.  It is as if God were going to bring the nation of the USA to repentance and restore her to be His nation.  But no promises were made to the USA or to any nation but Israel, which is a chosen nation.  Christians may take part in this by virtue of the fact that we are in Christ.  But specifically promises were made concerning the land of Israel that have not been fulfilled.  When Jesus returns to conquer the nations that war against Israel to destroy her, they will have their blindness removed and recognize Him as their Messiah for their nation, who was promised to reign over their nation in righteousness forever.  They will also personally accept His atonement for their sins.  .  So all Israel will be saved.  

No more sacrifice will ever be needed for person sin.  We are not discussing that anymore.  We are speaking of Israel recognizing Jesus as their promised King and deliverer for their nation.  They will repent of failing to recognize Him the first time He came and receive  Him as the promised Messiah to their nation.  In doing this, they may make sacrifices  that have nothing to do with personal sin.        At least I think I have this right.

[Qnts2]

41 minutes ago, Joline said:

In first century Judaism you had various Jewish "understandings". since 70 ad the only Jewish understanding that survived is of one sect which is the sect of the Pharisees. John the Baptist had gained many disciples, and these disciples were those which followed Christ. None were of the sect of the Pharisees. not only that, but God had to open their minds to understand scripture. Paul was given direct revelation concerning what he taught concerning Gentiles. So I would definitely disagree with you on this one.

Just a correction to the previous post. 

First, as a general statement from scripture.

John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

That means that No One comes to Jesus without the Father drawing them. Every single person who has ever come to Jesus, had their minds opened to a revelation of who He is.

Acts 15:5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.

In Acts 15:5 it is very clear the there were Pharisees who believed. Not only is it clear that some Pharisees believed in Jesus, but also, only 'certain' of the believing Pharisees argued for circumcision of the believing Gentiles. 

 

 

[Shar]

1 hour ago, thereselittleflower said:

That's not what Yom Kippur is about.  

Yom Kippur is about the atoning sacrifice, and the High Priest taking its blood into the Holy of Holies.

God already poured out His Spirit on Pentacost - on the Jewish believers - The Apostles, and from that point is given to ALL believers - first to the Jews then to the Gentiles.

Saying that this will happen to the Jewish people on Yom Kippur is only that - saying it.   

Paul tells us Yom Kippur has already been fulfilled by Jesus.

• Hebrews 9  6Now when these things have been so prepared, the priests are continually entering the outer tabernacle performing the divine worship,7but into the second, only the high priest enters once a year, not without taking blood, which he offers for himself and for the sins of the people committed in ignorance. 8The Holy Spirit is signifying this, that the way into the holy place has not yet been disclosed while the outer tabernacle is still standing, 9which is a symbol for the present time. Accordingly both gifts and sacrifices are offered which cannot make the worshiper perfect in conscience, 10since they relate only to food and drink and various washings, regulations for the body imposed until a time of reformation.

        11But when Christ appeared as a high priest of the good things to come, He entered through the greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this creation; 12and not through the blood of goats and calves, but through His own blood, He entered the holy place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption. 13For if the blood of goats and bulls and the ashes of a heifer sprinkling those who have been defiled sanctify for the cleansing of the flesh, 14how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without blemish to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

Yom Kippur requires the High Priest entering the Holy of Holies.

Paul has just told us Jesus ALREADY entered the Holy of Holies ONCE AND FOR ALL, into the more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, having obtained an enternal redemption.

The Greek word for "once for all" Paul used means:

• ἐφάπαξ ephápax, ef-ap'-ax; from G1909 and G530; upon one occasion (only):—(at) once (for all).

Thayer's Greek lexicon states it's use in this verse is the same as  OUR "once for all" 

• Thayer's Greek Lexicon
  STRONGS NT 2178: ἐφάπαξ
  
  ἐφάπαξ (Treg. in Heb. ἐφ' ἅπαξ; cf. Lipsius, gram. Unters., p. 127), adverb (from ἐπί and ἅπαξ (cf. Winers Grammar, 422 (393);Buttmann, 321 (275))), once; at once i. e.

  a. our all at once: 1 Corinthians 15:6.

  b. our once for all: Romans 6:10; Hebrews 7:27; Hebrews 9:12; Hebrews 10:10. (Lucian, Dio Cassius, others.)

What is "our once for all"  ?

• • once and for all (or once for all)
    phrase of once

     

    1. 1.

       now and for the last time; finally.

  1.  
  1.  

      

      

Paul has clearly stated that Jesus  ONCE AND FOR ALL, for the LAST TIME, FINALLY entered the HOLY OF HOLIES as High Priest, through the greater and more perfect Tabernacle, not made with hands, through His OWN BLOOD.

He did this ONCE AND FOR ALL, for the LAST TIME, FINALLY.

Since He entered the Holy of Holies as High Priest already, ONCE AND FOR ALL, FOR THE LAST TIME, FINALLY, He is not going to enter the Holy of Holies again, and certainly not an inferior, earthly one to the one He has already entered.

He already fulfilled Yom Kippur ONCE AND FOR ALL, for the LAST TIME, FINALLY.

 

 

 

 

Our Savior has entered the Holy of Holies and He is our Great High Priest.  These verses do not take away from Yom Kippur.  This has yet to happen for the nation of Israel.  They have not received the atoning sacrifice yet.  They will when they believe on their Messiah when they see Him.  Read Zec. 12 and 13.  ON THAT DAY, is repeated throughout.  Including taking away their sins in ONE DAY.

Just like you and I accepted Christ, it happened to us at the time we accepted Him, on that particular day, even though He died and paid the penalty over 2000 years ago.  We did not personally receive the atoning sacrifice until we believed in the Messiah.  

He entered the Holy of Holies once for all and for all time.  He does not have to enter again.  He is the Great High Priest that makes intercession for us in the Heavenly Temple.  These Hebrews references do not affect Yom Kippur, in the future for Israel, when Christ returns.

[Reinitin]

On 2/6/2016 at 11:27 PM, Joline said:

I was involved in a conversation with some Messianics few weeks ago. The subject of the feasts was brought up. Several Messianics said that the fall feasts had not yet been fulfilled.  How can some deny the day of atonement being fulfilled in Christ Jesus? Did he or did he not make an atonement for our sins? If so, then at least one of the fall feasts has been fulfilled. But more importantly it concerns me that at least some would make his atoning sacrifice of no effect. Does this concern anyone else here?

I can see Our Lord completely fulfilled the spring feasts. He will fulfill the fall feasts at his second coming. I am not Messianic but it seems very obvious to me. The Lord has not given us our last chance to repent before the judgment of God so the Yom kippur isn't fulfilled yet. the Lord planted the field in his first coming. The spring feasts. The Lord and the angels will come for the harvest the fall feasts. 

 

Edited February 8, 2016 by Reinitin

[thereselittleflower]

33 minutes ago, Willa said:

John the Baptist was a Nazarite like Sampson.  Many had come to repentance through him who later followed Jesus.  

No one is disputing your scriptures concerning Christ's sacrifice for personal sin.  We are speaking of God's dealings with a nation.  It is as if God were going to bring the nation of the USA to repentance and restore her to be His nation.  But no promises were made to the USA or to any nation but Israel, which is a chosen nation.  Christians may take part in this by virtue of the fact that we are in Christ.  But specifically promises were made concerning the land of Israel that have not been fulfilled.  When Jesus returns to conquer the nations that war against Israel to destroy her, they will have their blindness removed and recognize Him as their Messiah for their nation, who was promised to reign over their nation in righteousness forever.  They will also personally accept His atonement for their sins.  .  So all Israel will be saved.  

No more sacrifice will ever be needed for person sin.  We are not discussing that anymore.  We are speaking of Israel recognizing Jesus as their promised King and deliverer for their nation.  They will repent of failing to recognize Him the first time He came and receive  Him as the promised Messiah to their nation.  In doing this, they may make sacrifices  that have nothing to do with personal sin.        At least I think I have this right.

And there is nothing to tie their repentance to this particular day on the calendar.   Some are mistakenly using a belief that Yom Kippur has yet to be fulfilled to tie their repentance to that date.

But since Yom Kippur has been fulfilled as we see Paul telling us in Hebrews 9, then this idea that National Israel will repent all at once on this particular day because it is claimed by some it is yet unfulfilled is an erroneous claim.    The primary assumption is Yom Kippur has not been fulfilled.  If it is fulfilled, the rest of the argument falls to pieces.   

Yom Kippur has clearly been fulfilled already.  So without this foundational claim that it is yet to be fulfilled being true, the rest of the argument fails and then the claim National Israel will turn to Jesus on Yom Kippur fails.

And Willa,  if they repent, it necessarily includes repentance from sin.  So I'm sorry but, I see no scriptural support for your claim that their repentance has nothing to do with sin.

It was Israel's great sin to crucify their God.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest]

21 minutes ago, Qnts2 said:

Just a correction to the previous post. 

First, as a general statement from scripture.

John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

That means that No One comes to Jesus without the Father drawing them. Every single person who has ever come to Jesus, had their minds opened to a revelation of who He is.

Acts 15:5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.

In Acts 15:5 it is very clear the there were Pharisees who believed. Not only is it clear that some Pharisees believed in Jesus, but also, only 'certain' of the believing Pharisees argued for circumcision of the believing Gentiles. 

 

 

 

They were still a SECT distinct from the Apostles.

They had crept in unawares, and attended feasts of charity with the Church.

Jude 1:3 4  For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord

1:12  These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots;

16  These are murmurers, complainers, walking after their own lusts; and their mouth speaketh great swelling words, having men’s persons in admiration because of advantage.
17  But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ;
18  How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts.
19  These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit.

Those at the council were made manifest, at the council.
1 Jo 2:19  They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.