AMERICA IS MYSTERY BABYLON

[Spock]

On March 1, 2016 at 2:21 PM, BlindSeeker said:

But this is what those chapters are about -

The Eighth…

But again, Revelation chapters 13-18 is about the rise of the eighth and final empire in the last days that goes into destruction. Now you also stated that the “Final empire (of the 7th which becomes the 8th). I can accept measurably what you are saying, but not the end to which you have taken it.

There, the seven headed beast is meant to represent the rise of a particular and final kingdom that is spiritually connected to Israel, and we are told “the eighth… [which] is of the seven, and goes into perdition.” Nonetheless, all this prophetic imagery surrounding the seven headed beast with all the symbolism intended to represent the various key biblical players which need to be identified if one is to gain a correct understanding of John’s vision.

One such important example that reveals the necessity of paying attention to every detail as essential for gaining a proper understanding is demonstrated by the obvious distinction seen when this last eighth empire, represented as the seven headed beast rises out of the sea, it is alone in chapter 13. Yet later when in chapter 17 when the beast is seen again by John the woman sitting upon it.

We cannot dismiss that “the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goes into perdition.” Now, because of that phrase “is of the seven,” it must be concluded that “the eighth” is either a direct extension or descent from the seventh, or it is a mixture of each of the seven empires, being an end time conglomeration of multitudes, languages, nations and tongues; a nation existing as a cultural melting pot, a land of international immigrants. Either way, IMHO, America alone can comfortably wear this prophetic Cinderella slipper.

History reveals that it was mostly because of England that America even sought to get involved in World War II. Plus, it was World War II that accomplished three undeniable facts.

1.     WWII brought the sudden decline of the British Empire

2.     Help finish paving the way to the rebirth of Israel

3.     Through the introduction and use of nuclear weapons gave America its occasion to rise to its previous position global supremacy in both military and economic might.

But as the prophecy says, “If any man have an ear, let him hear. He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.” And thus God will execute His judgment upon this prophetic eighth and final empire.

Revelation 17:16 - And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire. 17 For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.

Why fire? Because with whatever weapon (i.e., sword) of war you use to kill unjustly with, so shall you be killed. For it was President Truman who gave the order to introduce humanity to nuclear weapons when as fire from heaven it fell upon Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Revelation 13:11 - And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb [appears to be for peace, but] and he spake as a dragon. 12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him [first beast being the eighth empire, he being the leader thereof, and note, never called a “king”], and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed. 13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,  14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast…

And what was the world’s response to this new weapon of warfare?

Revelation 13:4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him? 5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

Speaking of “forty and two months,” another interesting fact is how President Franklin D. Roosevelt suddenly died nearly three and a half years after making this famous speech about “A day that will live forever in infamy...” and therefore he did “not see when good cometh” at the conclusion of the war.

Jeremiah 17:5 - Thus saith the LORD; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the LORD. 6 For he shall be like the heath in the desert, and shall not see when good cometh; but shall inhabit the parched places in the wilderness, in a salt land and not inhabited.

I say nearly, because if we use the Julian calendar, it was only 3 years, 4 months, and 4 days excluding the end date. However, scripture reveals God calculates time differently, using both the solar and the lunar cycles. One solar cycle was an approximate biblical year which was adjusted periodically with an extra month approximately seven times during nineteen solar cycles. The biblical months varied between 29-30 days based upon the lunar cycle which fluctuates and therefore the months average out to approximately 29.5 days. Since it was a total of 1,221 days duration from President Roosevelt’s speech to his death we can simply divide that time and see it was a duration of 41.39 biblical months, or 42 months. Perhaps even more interesting is the timing of President Roosevelt’s death which actually occurred on the New Moon of April 12, 1945.

Some may protest because of Roosevelts “so help us God” speech, but when truly examined it becomes evident he self-righteously had “trusted in man, and made flesh his arm, and [his] whose heart [had] departed from the LORD.”

Thus I am fully persuaded that America is “the eighth… and goeth into perdition” soon… real soon. So much so,in obedience I have “Come out of her” and moved to Costa Rica.

Seeker,

i will say this- if you are right about GB being number 7, the I feel much better about saying America is number 8 because she did come out of number 7.  But are you right about number 7?  I don't know.  Hmmmm

an interests Spock 

[Spock]

On March 9, 2016 at 5:30 PM, BlindSeeker said:

I believe you are greatly misunderstanding the verse; the woman wasn’t  nourished from the serpent in any way shape or form. She was nourished by God who intervened on her behalf becuase the serpent was trying to kill her, not nourish her. Hence the rest of the verses –

Revelation 12:14 - And to the woman were given [by God] two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished [by God] for a time, and times, and half a time, [AWAY] from the face of the serpent.

 15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman [in an attempt to reach her], that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood [of false doctrines and lies].

 16 And [God caused] the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.

 17 And [therefore] the dragon was wroth with the woman [because he couldn't kill her], and [so he] went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

You simply need to follow the grammar, “the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.”

Her place to where she flew was away from the serpent and so he couldn’t reach her, hence the attempt with the flood out of his mouth… which also couldn’t reach her.

 

Hey Rev Writer,

read seeker here- very sound interpretation if you ask me. 

Spock

[Marilyn C]

Hi bros & sisters,

Thought I`d pop in to this interesting discussion. Is America Mystery Babylon? I believe not. America is a nation that is only part of the Global scene. It is not the Global Political, Economic & Religious Power of the Final Gentile Global Government. I believe this very year we will see who has taken control of the world`s finances (the IMF) & the centre of power will shift dramatically. We are in for a great roller coaster ride as the powers that be restructure the entire Global System.

Marilyn.

  

Edited March 12, 2016 by Marilyn C

[Marilyn C]

Hi BlindSeeker,

Haven`t chatted with you before, so Hi, but have read your comments & wonder how you would fill in the rest of this chart?

 

7 Heads – Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Media-Persia, Greece, Rome, England, USA. (your thoughts)

10 Crowned Horns -

Body Parts –

 Mouth (Lion) -  

Body (Leopard) -

Feet (Bear) -  

 

Marilyn.

 

 

 

 

[BlindSeeker]

9 hours ago, Spock said:

I have you "love" for the first 6 empires, but I am not sure about this one- England.  Why not the Ottoman Turks, or Islam?  Didn't they control the Holy Land for a number of years?  

 One of the most important clues regarding this “eighth” is given us when the angel states that the beast “was, and is not, and yet is… even he is the eighth.”

Revelation 17:8 - The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is. 9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth. 10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space. 11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

In the visions given to Daniel concerning the rise and fall of nations we can establish some important details. But first, though we know ultimately that Daniel’s prophecy peaks when it gives a time reference to the coming of Messiah, his visions concerning the “beasts” are important only because of their connection to Israel; and the beasts mentioned in chapter 7 ends with a fourth beast that “was diverse from the others.”

Daniel 7:1 - In the first year of Belshazzar king of Babylon Daniel had a dream and visions of his head upon his bed: then he wrote the dream, and told the sum of the matters. 2 Daniel spake and said, I saw in my vision by night, and, behold, the four winds of the heaven strove upon the great sea. 3 And four great beasts came up from the sea, diverse one from another. 4 The first was like a lion, and had eagle’s wings: I beheld till the wings thereof were plucked, and it was lifted up from the earth, and made stand upon the feet as a man, and a man’s heart was given to it, [Babylonian Empire]. 5 And behold another beast, a second, like to a bear, and it raised up itself on one side, and it had three ribs in the mouth of it between the teeth of it: and they said thus unto it, Arise, devour much flesh, [Medo/Persian Empire]. 6 After this I beheld, and lo another, like a leopard, which had upon the back of it four wings of a fowl; the beast had also four heads; and dominion was given to it, [Grecian Empire]. 7 After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns, [Roman Empire].

The reason Daniel states Rome “was diverse from all the beasts that were before it” was not just that “it had ten horns,” but rather because it “it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it.” That signifying the prophetic destruction of Israel by Rome.

See, that phrase, “was, and is not, and yet is,” is not only applicable to the beast, from the first head to the seventh, and to the final manifestation as the eighth that goes into perdition; that phrase is also true about Israel as a viable statehood with geographic boundaries and a functioning government structure.

Daniel’s visions mainly address four empires, starting with Babylon, that being because it was the one into which he and many of other Jews were taken into captivity when Nebuchadnezzar conquered Israel. The first and second heads/mountains/empires of Egypt and Assyria are not mention because they were in Daniel’s past. The ten horns are mentioned because they too were going to be in Israel’s distant future, after Israel “which was,” was destroyed by Rome and became the “is not,” but was rebirth again in 1948 and “yet is” to this very day. Thus Israel is the key, because all Daniel’s vision regarding the succession of beasts, horns, definite time frames and specific end time events, they all deal as the Angel Gabriel said with “thy people and upon thy holy city.”

Likewise, in Revelation we are given the specific account of the woman sitting on “seven mountains” to denote those empires which through her history will have had a direct correlation with Israel, all leading up to the end of the ages with the rise of the eighth and final empire. HOWEVER, the Ottoman Empire and the birth of Islam, though undeniably significant in Middle East history and modern events globally, they do not qualify to be the seventh or eighth because Israel “was not” during the time of the Ottoman Empire power, not had they anything to do with Israel’s rebirth. However, both England and its king George VI did, and the fact that George VI only lived 4 short years later fits the prophecy like a glove.

Revelation 17:10 - And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space. 11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

Apart from the fact that America began as a colonization of England and has become the melting pot of the world, the Land of Immigrants with a statute to boot, we were the first country in the world to recognize Israel’s statehood, on a de facto basis. Here some dates marking events leading up to Israel’s statehood from the Truman Library and Museum site.

March 18, 1948: President Truman meets with Chaim Weizmann, the president of the Jewish Agency for Palestine and the World Zionist Organization. Truman says he wishes to see justice done in Palestine without bloodshed, and that if the Jewish state were declared and the United Nations remained stalled in its attempt to establish a temporary trusteeship over Palestine, the United States would recognize the new state immediately.

March 18, 1948: The United Nations Special Commission on Palestine reports to the United Nations Security Council that it has failed to arrange any compromise between Jews and Arabs, and it recommends that the United Nations undertake a temporary trusteeship for Palestine in order to restore peace.

March 19, 1948: United States representative to the United Nations Warren Austin announces to the United Nations Security Council that the United States position is that the partition of Palestine is no longer a viable option.

March 20, 1948: Secretary of State George Marshall announces that the United States will seek to work within the United Nations to bring a peaceful settlement to Palestine, and that the proposal for a temporary United Nations trusteeship for Palestine is the only idea presently being considered that will allow the United Nations to address the difficult situation in Palestine.

March 21, 1948: President Truman writes in his diary regarding the confusion caused by the State Department's handling of the trusteeship issue: "I spend the day trying to right what has happened. No luck. Marshall makes a statement. Doesn't help a bit."

March 21, 1948: President Truman writes to his sister Mary Jane Truman that the "striped pants conspirators" in the State Department had "completely balled up the Palestine situation." But, he writes, "it may work out anyway in spite of them."

March 22, 1948: President Truman writes to his brother Vivian Truman regarding Palestine: "I think the proper thing to do, and the thing I have been doing, is to do what I think is right and let them all go to hell."

March 25, 1948: President Truman says at a press conference that a United Nations trusteeship for Palestine would be only a temporary measure, intended to establish the peaceful conditions that would be the essential foundation for a final political settlement. He says that trusteeship is not a substitute for partition.

April 11, 1948: President Truman's friend Eddie Jacobson enters the White House unnoticed by the East Gate and meets with Truman. Jacobson recorded of this meeting: "He reaffirmed, very strongly, the promises he had made to Dr. Weizmann and to me; and he gave me permission to tell Dr. Weizmann so, which I did. It was at this meeting that I also discussed with the President the vital matter of recognizing the new state, and to this he agreed with a whole heart."

May 12, 1948: President Truman meets in the Oval Office with Secretary of State George Marshall, Under Secretary of State Robert Lovett, Counsel to the President Clark Clifford and several others to discuss the Palestine situation. Clifford argues in favor of recognizing the new Jewish state in accordance with the United Nations resolution of November 29, 1947. Marshall opposes Clifford's arguments, and contends they are based on domestic political considerations. He says that if Truman follows Clifford's advice and recognizes the Jewish state, then he (Marshall) would vote against Truman in the election. Truman does not clearly state his views in the meeting.

May 12, 13, and 14, 1948: Counsel to the President Clark Clifford and Under Secretary of State Robert Lovett discuss the different views held in the White House and the State Department regarding whether the United States should recognize the Jewish state. Lovett reports to Clifford on May 14 that Marshall will neither support nor oppose Truman's plan to recognize the Jewish state, that he will stay out of the entire matter.

May 13, 1948: Chaim Weizmann, president of the Jewish Agency for Palestine and the World Zionist Organization, writes to President Truman: "I deeply hope that the United States, which under your leadership has done so much to find a just solution [to the Palestine situation], will promptly recognize the Provisional Government of the new Jewish state. The world, I think, would regard it as especially appropriate that the greatest living democracy should be the first to welcome the newest into the family of nations."

May 14, 1948: late morning eastern standard time (late afternoon in Palestine): David Ben-Gurion, Israel's first prime minister, reads a "Declaration of Independence," which proclaims the existence of a Jewish state called Israel beginning on May 15, 1948, at 12:00 midnight Palestine time (6:00 p.m., May 14, 1948, eastern standard time).

May 14, 1948, 6 p.m. eastern standard time (12:00 midnight in Palestine): The British mandate for Palestine expires, and the state of Israel comes into being.

May 14, 1948, 6:11 p.m. eastern standard time: The United States recognizes Israel on a de facto basis. The White House issues the following statement: "This Government has been informed that a Jewish state has been proclaimed in Palestine, and recognition has been requested by the provisional government thereof. The United States recognizes the provisional government as the de facto authority of the State of Israel."

May 14, 1948, shortly after 6:11 p.m. eastern standard time: United States representative to the United Nations Warren Austin leaves his office at the United Nations and goes home. Secretary of State Marshall sends a State Department official to the United Nations to prevent the entire United States delegation from resigning.

May 15, 1948: On May 15, 1948, the Arab states issued their response statement and Egypt, Syria, Jordan, Lebanon and Iraq attack Israel.

January 25, 1949: A permanent government takes office in Israel following popular elections.

January 31, 1949: The United States recognizes Israel on a de jure basis.

What is also noteworthy, is that England recognized Israel’s statehood on a de jure basis just two days earlier. Here’s the link to the quote below –

“On January 29, 1949, the former Mandatory Power, Britain, recognized the state of Israel, a step that also recognized the end of British efforts to affect the course of the region’s politics.”

But going back to May 14, 1948 when the United States recognizes Israel on a de facto basis, that was just 11 minutes into Israel’s statehood. Is that significant? Of course it is, but how is a matter of determination. But 11 has much more of a negative connotation scripturally than a positive one for sure; as a matter of act I don’t know of any. But here’s an excerpt from this site to help make the point-

“The Meaning of Numbers: The Number 11

The number eleven is important in that it can symbolize disorder, chaos and judgment. In the Bible, 11 is used twenty-four times and "11th" can be found 19 times. Coming after 10 (which represents law and responsibility), the number eleven represents the opposite - the irresponsibility of breaking the Law, which brings disorder and judgment.

In Genesis 11, men rebelled against God and built the tower of Babel. He judged them by confusing their language, resulting in chaos.

Jehoiakim, one of the last kings over Judah, ruled for 11 years (609 to 598 B.C.). His successor, King Jehoiachin, rules for only three months before the Babylonians take control of Jerusalem in 597 B.C. and take him captive. After overcoming the city, King Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon sets up Zedekiah as a puppet ruler of Judea. Zedekiah, however, soon rebels against his masters. His reign is ended in 586 B.C., after only 11 years, when Nebuchadnezzar once again conquers Jerusalem but this time he destroys the city and burns its temple to the ground. Any Jews that remained alive were taken captive.

The apostle John saw 11 things in connection with the final judgment (Revelation 20:12 - 14).”

So once again, when considering both “the dragon” in Revelation 12 and “the beast” in Revelation 13, we must keep in mind Daniel’s four historic beasts through which “the dragon” has historically carried out his warfare against Israel; representative of God’s redeemed people. Only by acknowledging the historic rise and fall of those empires which have had a direct correlation with Israel can one properly follow the presence of this prophetic seven-headed beast through Israel’s history so as to accurately discern the final Eighth Beast which bears the red dragon’s mark, (Revelation 12:3).

That said, America and its foreign policies since the end of World War II, along with the restoration of Israel, have impacted the rest of the world probably more than any other thing or nation in history, except for Israel itself. For again, we must not lose sight of the direct correlation between the seven-headed beast and Israel, both which “was, is not, and yet is.”

For “the beast” in Revelation 13, which is “the eighth that goes into perdition, continues to serve as a prophetic representation of those fallen angels and demonic powers that are here on earth manipulating the wicked in power to wage war against both Israel and true Christians in these final days. And as President Obama said, “Whatever we once were, we are no longer a Christian nation,” nor is this administration pro-Israel anymore either. And all those Arab countries that want to drive Israel into the sea and blot out their name that they be a nation no more, they all agree the “Big Satan” must go if they are to get rid of the “Little Satan.” 

[Spock]

On March 11, 2016 at 8:58 PM, BlindSeeker said:

Revelation 14:6 - And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people, 7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to Him; for the hour of His judgment is come: and worship Him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters. 8 And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that Great City, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.

Revelation 17:1 - And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters: 2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.

Revelation 18:1 - And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory. 2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird. 3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.

In the first verse, Revelation 14:8, it states Babylon “made [potizo] all nations drink [potizo] of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.” A quick reading of that would almost make it sound as if Babylon was forcing the other nations to drink this wine. However, when examining the Greek word, it doesn’t support the idea of a forced consumption, but simply that of offering or making available. The word “potizo” by the Strong’s Greek Interlinear, simply means to furnish drink or to irrigate. It is further illustrated with “give (make) to drink, feed, water.” The implication of “give make to drink” is in the sense of irrigation, so as to “make” it possible for the land to drink the water. “Potizo” is from a derivative of “pino” which occurs only as an alternate in certain tenses and means to imbibe, swallow, guzzle, gulp, and absorb (literally or figuratively): or simply “drink.”

Having done a study on “potizo” I found that it is used twenty-three times in only fifteen verses in the New Testament; and has been translated the following ways.

2 times: give/gave…drink
6 times: give/gave
7 times: drink
1 time:   watering (an animal)
3 times: watereth (a crop)
1 time: fed (milk)
1 time: have been
1 time: made to drink
1 time: made

In none of those verses has the idea been implied “to force” intoxicating drink upon anyone. As a matter of fact, potizo’s very first usage in scripture recorded in Matthew’s Gospel was by Jesus.

Matthew 10:42 - And whosoever shall give to drink [potizo] unto one of these little ones a cup of cold water only in the name of a disciple, verily I say unto you, he shall in no wise lose his reward.

The verse where it was translated “fed”-

I Corinthians 3:2 - I have fed [potizo] you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.

The verse where it was translated “watereth” –

I Corinthians 3:6 - I have planted, Apollos watered [potizo] but God gave the increase. 7 So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth [potizo] but God that giveth the increase. 8 Now he that planteth and he that watereth [potizo] are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour.

The verse where it was translated “have been” and “made to drink” is also in I Corinthians.

I Corinthians 12:13 - For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been [potizo] all made to drink [potizo] into one Spirit.

Again, in none of the verses above or any of the verses can the notion of forcing drink upon anyone or thing be justified. The idea is simply that of offering, making available, or supplying by means of irrigation.

Therefore, when it says in Revelation 14:8 that “Babylon is fallen… because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication,” it is because she was “providing or irrigating” the nations, “watering” them as it were with the “wine of the wrath of her fornication.” Babylon wasn’t forcing the nations to drink, rather the fruit [outcome] of her fornication [sins] was causing the wine [temptations] thereof to spillover to all the other nations, who freely received and drank of them. For that reason, they too are deserving of the wrath that God will pour out in His indignation upon Babylon.

This accusation in Revelation, that all the nations became drunk because of the wine of Babylon, actually goes back to a prophecy in Isaiah.

Jeremiah 51:7 - Babylon hath been a golden cup in the LORD’s hand, that made all the earth drunken: the nations have drunken of her wine; therefore the nations are mad.

Once “a golden cup in the LORD’s hand,” Babylon was used by God to chastise Israel for her sins in order to bring forth the peaceable fruit of righteousness in her. God even gave unto Babylon one of His greatest prophets to help guide it by allowing Daniel to go into captivity. For Daniel’s righteous presence served as an effectual light in Babylon, as God used Daniel repeatedly to warn Nebuchadnezzar of things to come, and even to address the king’s pride; something that would have cost any other man his life.

However, after many years Nebuchadnezzar grew older and his son Belshazzar ascended to the throne. It did not take long before Daniel’s proven importance became overlooked and neglected. That is till one night in drunken arrogance, Belshazzar “brought the golden vessels that were taken out of the temple of the house of God which was at Jerusalem; and the king, and his princes, his wives, and his concubines, drank in them.” The boldness of his sin made it evident that Belshazzar had not only abandoned the wisdom of his father mentioned just a few verses earlier; he trampled it underfoot by celebrating his own egotism to the thorough frustration of God’s longsuffering and patience.

Daniel 4:34 - And at the end of the days I Nebuchadnezzar lifted up mine eyes unto heaven, and mine understanding returned unto me, and I blessed the most High, and I praised and honoured Him that liveth for ever, whose dominion is an everlasting dominion, and His kingdom is from generation to generation: 35 And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and He doeth according to His will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay His hand, or say unto Him, What doest Thou? 36 At the same time my reason returned unto me; and for the glory of my kingdom, mine honour and brightness returned unto me; and my counsellors and my lords sought unto me; and I was established in my kingdom, and excellent majesty was added unto me. 37 Now I Nebuchadnezzar praise and extol and honour the King of heaven, all whose works are truth, and His ways judgment: and those that walk in pride He is able to abase.

 

Even though Babylon had been “a golden cup in the LORD’S hand,” when Belshazzar its king sinned so grievously by treating what was holy as profane, he poured out any residue of God’s mercy and filled up his own cup with the wrath of his fornication to idols of other gods.

Daniel 5:1 - Belshazzar the king made a great feast to a thousand of his lords, and drank wine before the thousand. 2 Belshazzar, whiles he tasted the wine, commanded to bring the golden and silver vessels which his father Nebuchadnezzar had taken out of the temple which was in Jerusalem; that the king, and his princes, his wives, and his concubines, might drink therein. 3 Then they brought the golden vessels that were taken out of the temple of the house of God which was at Jerusalem; and the king, and his princes, his wives, and his concubines, drank in them. 4 They drank wine, and praised the gods of gold, and of silver, of brass, of iron, of wood, and of stone.

Thus when the fullness of time that God foretold through Jeremiah had concluded, God caused Babylon to drink the cup of His fury for their sins of arrogance and their forgetting His words given them through the Prophet Daniel.

Jeremiah 25:12 - And it shall come to pass, when seventy years are accomplished, that I will punish the king of Babylon, and that nation, saith the LORD, for their iniquity, and the land of the Chaldeans, and will make it perpetual desolations. 13 And I will bring upon that land all My words which I have pronounced against it, even all that is written in this book, which Jeremiah hath prophesied against all the nations. 14 For many nations and great kings shall serve themselves of them also: and I will recompense them according to their deeds, and according to the works of their own hands. 15 For thus saith the LORD God of Israel unto Me; Take the wine cup of this fury at My hand, and cause all the nations, to whom I send thee, to drink it. 16 And they shall drink, and be moved, and be mad, because of the sword that I will send among them.

 As it was with the fall of Babylon, that “great city” and capital of the Chaldeans, so shall it be with the fall of The Eight Beast and Mystery, Babylon the Great. For their leaders have given way to drunken arrogance and have completely abandon both the wisdom and the fear of God of their founding fathers; trampling it underfoot while celebrating their egoistic narcissism to the absolute frustration of God’s longsuffering and patience. For today in America, whatever was once considered holy is now treated with disdain as profane.

For America was once a nation of which it could be said stood as a light for the whole world, boasting on its currency that was once valued above all others that “In God We Trust.” The Ten Commandments once being boldly displayed in public buildings; engraved on walls and monuments of stone to constantly remind us of both their eternal immutability and the stability they gave to all who acknowledged them. Likewise, pledges of loyalty to uphold the integrity of the nation’s many offices of government were once affirmed on the foundation upon which she was built; as “One nation under God.” But now, just as it says concerning Babylon the Great, the Mother of Harlots, who holds a “golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication,” so too America been providing maddening wine and irrigating the nations with/by the excess of her iniquities.

Too many Americans, be they government leaders or just common citizens, have forgotten what was committed to their charge. Therefore, they are either spiritually dead or dying, being lukewarm in their faith and love for God and therefore derelict in their obligations… all the while quoting how they’re still “saved by grace.” Therefore, America’s churches will be held accountable for having received God’s grace in vain, and for yielding to those who have now successfully changed the godly’s “Freedom of Religion” into the wicked’s freedom from religion. Having risen to power, these apostates will now tirelessly wage war to purge all traces of God and His word from the public eye.

Sadly, the most popular "churches" in America are now the perpetuating source of her curses instead of the procurers of her blessings. Huge mega churches, religious corporations, are growing like malignant tumors across America, prospering while they instruct their congregants how to be happy by living their new “Purpose Driven” lives in dedicated service to the church and community.

What happened to teaching men the fear of the Lord and how to love God and apply His word? Or instructing people how to pray and wait on the Lord; so as to hear His voice and be led and empowered by His Holy Spirit?

But no, instead the blind are leading the blind as these so-called “Christian leaders” are making their fortunes promoting their own concocted self-help methods to “Become a Better You,” and promising those eagerly waiting in line to buy their next book that they too can have “Your Best Life Now.”

If the likes of Joel Osteen is being openly called “America’s Pastor,” how can they or their followers avoid the ditch that is set before them? Have they not read what Jesus said to such leaders whose eyes are no longer on His Kingdom, but their own? Probably not, for they are forsaking His righteousness for the riches and popularity of this world...

Matthew 15:14 - Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.

Matthew 23:13 - But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in. 14 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows’ houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation.

The judgment of America will doubtless begin (if it hasn't already) with a judgment upon the churches, for judgment must begin in the house of the Lord. As accountable stewards, they have not been faithful; as watchmen, they have not warned the people there was an enemy creeping in among them unaware. Christians really do need to wake up and face the facts: it is because the churches have fallen that America has fallen. They have settled for institutionalism over intimacy with God; programs instead of walking by the Spirit. They have become worthless salt, good for nothing; not even fit to throw upon a heap of manure.

Matthew 5:13 - Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men.

Luke 14:34 - Salt is good: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be seasoned? 35 It is neither fit for the land, nor yet for the dunghill; but men cast it out. He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.

God will reward ALL these vain so-called “believers" with a “greater damnation” who “knew his lord’s will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will.” Therefore, they are no longer “fit for the land, nor yet for the dunghill.” Such is why judgment will be rewarded unto her in double portion.

Revelation 18:6 - Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill to her double. 7 How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow [or wars on my land].

The godly standard has been removed, therefore Americans today can’t see how far removed they are from the original pilgrim settlers’ Puritan work ethic, morality and desire to sincerely promote and live by the gospel before a lost and dying world. Just how deep America has fallen into iniquity is probably best attested to by what is now asserted to be her largest two exports, both being trash. One of these exports is America’s literal refuse and recyclable debris, and the other is our moral garbage, i.e. pornography whereby America’s sins have overflowed her borders and have caused the “kings of the earth [to] have committed fornication with her.” Now they too will drink of the wrath of God; though America will have “the cup which she hath filled fill to her double.”

Here’s a few other translations of Revelation 18:3 that I found to be “revealing.”

…because all the nations have drunk of the wine of the fury of her fornication; and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth have been enriched through the might of her luxury. (Darby’s Translation)

For all nations, having drunk the wine of the frenzy of her fornication, are fallen; And the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, And the merchants of the earth have grown rich by the power of her wantonness." (Montgomery’s New Testament)

…for she has caused all the nations to drink of the wine of her raging whoredom; and the kings of the earth have committed whoredom with her, and the merchants of the earth have been enriched by the abundance of her luxuries. (Living Oracles New Testament)

For, after drinking the maddening wine of her licentiousness, all the nations have fallen; while all the kings of the earth have had licentious intercourse with her, and the merchants of the earth have grown rich through the excess of her luxury. (Twentieth Century New Testament)

Sadly, to date America has become the habitation of embezzlers and purloiners with people on both sides; employees and employers, trying to take advantage of each other.  Most now feel they deserved to be paid simply because they have to wake up and go to work and cannot just go wherever and do whatever they want whenever they want… and now here we sit under trillions and trillions of dollars in debt, and yet still borrowing and spending with no end in sight. In America they have forgotten the law of the harvest, that if a man will not labor and plow and plant his seeds, he simply will not have a field from which to reap a harvest.

Jeremiah 5:25 - Your iniquities have turned away these things, and your sins have withholden good things from you. 26 For among My people are found wicked men: they lay wait, as he that setteth snares; they set a trap, they catch men. 27 As a cage is full of birds, so are their houses full of deceit: therefore they are become great, and waxen rich. 28 They are waxen fat, they shine: yea, they overpass the deeds of the wicked: they judge not the cause, the cause of the fatherless, yet they prosper; and the right of the needy do they not judge. 29 Shall I not visit for these things? saith the LORD: shall not my soul be avenged on such a nation as this? 30 A wonderful and horrible thing is committed in the land; 31 The prophets prophesy falsely, and the priests bear rule by their means; and My people love to have it so: and what will ye do in the end thereof?

 Forgive my ranting... but oh how I truly do agonize over these things and wish they were not 

Seeker,

i am unable to post this under your last post, so bear with me.  So, let me get this straight- you don't believe the Ottoman Turks could be number 7 beast because there was no Israel in the land to persecute- fair enough.

but when Great Britain controlled Palestine from 1917-1948, there also was no Israel in the land, right?  They didn't technically become a nation until the Palestine Rule expired 5/14/48.   I know there were Jews living there, but I'm sure there were Jews living in the land during the Ottoman reign as well.  So, why do you not apply the same standard to them as you applied to the Ottoman Turks?

thanks,

spock

[Reinitin]

Mystery babylon has clearly always been the papacy in rome to me.

[Eha]

6 minutes ago, Reinitin said:

Mystery babylon has clearly always been the papacy in rome to me.

somehow feel the same.

[BlindSeeker]

5 hours ago, Spock said:

Seeker,

i am unable to post this under your last post, so bear with me.  So, let me get this straight- you don't believe the Ottoman Turks could be number 7 beast because there was no Israel in the land to persecute- fair enough.

but when Great Britain controlled Palestine from 1917-1948, there also was no Israel in the land, right?  They didn't technically become a nation until the Palestine Rule expired 5/14/48.   I know there were Jews living there, but I'm sure there were Jews living in the land during the Ottoman reign as well.  So, why do you not apply the same standard to them as you applied to the Ottoman Turks?

thanks,

spock

I would simply answer now due to shortness of time with three points worth considering and investigating. For remember, before every birth there is that time of both conception and developement-

1.    The Balford Declaration signed in 1917 and its historical significance, for it clearly shows that the government of Great Britain supported the establishment of a "Jewish national home" in Palestine. It was this declaration that paved the way as it were to the formulation of the mandate below.

2.    The Mandatory Palestine, which was a legal instrument passed by the League of Nations granting Britain legal directive and control over Palestine which was in effect from 1920 to 1948, Israel’s rebirth. During this time the term "Eretz Yisrael" which in Hebrew means "Land of Israel" was considered the official Hebrew name of Mandatory Palestine.

3.    The Land upon which Israel was rebirth was under the direct control of the British Empire due to their global conquests.

Though diplomatic relations continued between Britain and Israel, after the death of King George VI (four “short” years later), America became Israel’s strongest ally.

[BlindSeeker]

5 hours ago, Reinitin said:

Mystery babylon has clearly always been the papacy in rome to me.

Which is why there is a need to recognize all the key players, their relationships, and their roles in fulfilling the prophecies in Revelation. For the Mystery, Babylon the Great, Mother of Harlots, she is still seen to be riding that beast which represents a civil authority while she represents a religious power. Sort of the end time perversion for Nehemiah and Ezra... two separate entities, yet joined as one in purpose via an unholy union.