a simple(?) question about sabbath

[other one]

29 minutes ago, Joline said:

The Gentile Church? The Church is neither Jew nor Gentile. Christian assembly was not held on Saturday. We know Paul went to evangelize in the synagogues, on Saturday, not to assemble the body of Christ.

Paul went to the synagogues on the sabbath (Saturday) for that is where the Jews were...   if you wanted to speak to a group of Jews at that time is was your best and maybe your only choice.....     but we are told that the church members did meet on the first day of the week at that time...   Paul was not telling us we needed to keep the sabbath, he was just going to where the Jews were.

[SINNERSAVED]

to go to church on sunday instead of a Saturday , is a choice right now, to worship everyday is also a choice, and to study and be ,

gathering everyday as they did , in the past is also a great thing, I could gather and worship every day, if I could,

 now to have a Sabbath is from God, for it is for man and not the man for Sabbath, so this gives a hint to a error of standing that was changed already in 321 ad, from Saturday to sunday, for the purpose of worship, only as a society , deem and accepted today ,and so we have that today , and yes if we are worshipping the true and living God ,that's great, but I have to give a taste, that I believe in my heart and scripture is calling out to those that really understand the spirit of the commandment which in essence makes us worship in spirit and in truth ? by following the commandments of God,

 lets be clear, the Sabbath is a day of rest to take time out and to worship and thank God for all He has provided and to rest our bodies to be ready to do another 6 day week of work , it is healthy and it is to energize your bodies to continue,  so Sabbath is rest !!

 now worship is different for it is a time, that is called to the people as a whole and community and the world to give thanks and to study the word of God together,, and so it is mainly on sunday for it was designed by the powers of man to be changed and so we follow this day, for other reasons that many have no clue about , and if we study the  gods of pagan worship and the sun  gods etc, then you will follow where I am going with this,

 now we have a group called the seven day Adventist, that are under a agreement with the powers of religion, and the powers that be to change there worship day from Saturday , as they are known for, to sunday, and this is another small shift, to set into plan a one set day , to have all worship into a gathering around the world

now let us not get stuck on Saturday and verses sunday , as long as you go to church and worship God, ?

 lets put that to the side just for a moment,

1)_and understand the reasons we are on sunday to go to church first of all ?? why is this, ?? and who ordered the world to follow this system made in 321 ad, and ,by who and for what reason? there is a reason for this please look it up and do your research,

2) if the seven day Adventist where fine worshiping as a organized church , why would they change there day from Saturday to sunday, ? for what reason  ? for by what drives this change ? and who is the agreement with to do a major move like this  ?

3) the fourth commandment tells us to keep the Sabbath holy, so we take this as to be Saturday , and we follow this according to the rest , or Sabbath granted to men to rest and observe ,the jewish customs , know that it was Saturday , and Jesus spoke on the Sabbath ,

 in fact if you look at the warning that when you see the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel fell into the mountains, and pray it is not in the Sabbath ? why did Jesus say pray it not be in the Sabbath, for in that time, on the Sabbath no one was able to go in or out of the city, ad the gates to the city where closed on that day , so I believe if there was something going on and you had to run you cannot get out for the gates are closed so this leads me to that Saturday , was observed and now it is taken away , by man, and if we really was in that time, it be very important to know this, but we are in a liberated world that there is no more God and all that is Holy is just a fable to many, and so when I try to explain and many that study the bible know this , then you will see how important it really is, and for our futre as the puzzle is placed together one piece at a time,

 for satan has blinded the eyes of the world we believe the lies that we here all the time, the one that its not wrong to go sunday instead of Saturday, ? or as long as you go to church, ?

this is called  a slow fade, when the water comes in a little at a time, you don't notice it right away but then the high tide rolls in and then you are up to your waist in water, so this is the same, but over time satan has found how to slowly fade in the evil and deception to the people to fool then o with ine thing at a time and to do it slowly to not raise  alert,

 and so as it was in the pass, with the blues law, it will come again, you have been warned, it will be called family rest day or something very appealing to people , but it will be a mandatory sunday law, and the one pushing for this comes, from the same system that changed the day in the past, it is now in legislation and up for passing, , the main person trying to pass this well, we all know who is the man of peace on earth? the one that is washing the feet of people, , and forgiving people of their sins, and have made a miracle with some water and blood in the bottle, and it goes on,

 so for all those that say this is all fables, you will be told one day , and it will be under watch by the electronic system , and there is going to be a fine, and punish ment,, for those that do not comply, so be alert and be watchful, for the day of the system is here,  do not let anyone deceive you , Jesus said,

 just food for thought

[post]

as much as i appreciate seeing the standard "sabbath thread toolkit" in use, what i'd really like to understand is how does love for God and for others fulfill the 4th commandment? 

and i'm not looking for someone just to tell me 'if you love God you keep His commands' -- but if you did not have the law telling you that this is what you must do, how would love lead you to righteously fulfill this? 

thanks

 

[SINNERSAVED]

that is a great question POST,  what has been a tradition for ever as we know it , if you have something in place , like through the traditions of man and me as a child to except to go to church on sunday, this alone has had its impact of our lives and thoughts and beliefs,

 what we can do now, from my understanding and personal view, its just my opinion here,

 but lets look at what we have here, sunday verse Saturday ?

 so if you find a church that has service on Saturday , for worship purposes great, but if not then , if you are able to change your Job schedule,  and your life style to be off on Saturday, and make a effort to get Saturday off as a rest day , for you , then you have found a way to enjoy the rest and Sabbath according to the fourth commd,

 not everyone can do this, but they can try , now if you can get involved in bible study , that gathers , together, and be fed the scripture and the gathering of your selves that is great,

 but what we have here is a couple things that I see, one, I cannot go to church on sunday with a clear mind knowing how the sunday church worship and system has been put there, and the true meaning of it,

 second to gather with others like minded that just love God and know the teachings of the bible and Jesus , and living for God all you can

 to make a difference and share your light with others, if it be work ,play or hobby or family, study together and stay in the faith and belief of God, for we need to make every effort in these days to be of God and to do as we are told by scripture and love to obey Him and abide in Him , we cannot stay with the masses that are all walking off the cliff, we need to make a stand and show others the real Jesus and the real love God has for us, so

 for me. I don't go to church on sunday , I would go on Saturday , and start to research the scriptures of following God from your spirit and heart, and the holy spirit will lead you and show you the truth and what is right and what is of man,

 for we are to be watchful, and alert, and always be ready for giving a word on what you believe and why you believe,

 just stay in the word and walk with God,abide in Him for we are crucified with Him, and the spirit dwells with in,

 then when you totally understand let others know what you believe and show them the word of truth ,,

 we are in the last days, and you need to be sure and stand firm in God, and we all must learn to endure until the end, blessings

 for it is the mind  and thoughts that are to understand the love of God, for by grace you are saved and you actions come from your thoughts, so you need to be focused on God, and that is the most important thing, for where your thoughts are is where your heart is,,

[Qnts2]

7 minutes ago, SINNERSAVED said:

to go to church on sunday instead of a Saturday , is a choice right now, to worship everyday is also a choice, and to study and be ,

gathering everyday as they did , in the past is also a great thing, I could gather and worship every day, if I could,

 now to have a Sabbath is from God, for it is for man and not the man for Sabbath, so this gives a hint to a error of standing that was changed already in 321 ad, from Saturday to sunday, for the purpose of worship, only as a society , deem and accepted today ,and so we have that today , and yes if we are worshipping the true and living God ,that's great, but I have to give a taste, that I believe in my heart and scripture is calling out to those that really understand the spirit of the commandment which in essence makes us worship in spirit and in truth ? by following the commandments of God,

 lets be clear, the Sabbath is a day of rest to take time out and to worship and thank God for all He has provided and to rest our bodies to be ready to do another 6 day week of work , it is healthy and it is to energize your bodies to continue,  so Sabbath is rest !!

 now worship is different for it is a time, that is called to the people as a whole and community and the world to give thanks and to study the word of God together,, and so it is mainly on sunday for it was designed by the powers of man to be changed and so we follow this day, for other reasons that many have no clue about , and if we study the  gods of pagan worship and the sun  gods etc, then you will follow where I am going with this,

 now we have a group called the seven day Adventist, that are under a agreement with the powers of religion, and the powers that be to change there worship day from Saturday , as they are known for, to sunday, and this is another small shift, to set into plan a one set day , to have all worship into a gathering around the world

now let us not get stuck on Saturday and verses sunday , as long as you go to church and worship God, ?

 lets put that to the side just for a moment,

1)_and understand the reasons we are on sunday to go to church first of all ?? why is this, ?? and who ordered the world to follow this system made in 321 ad, and ,by who and for what reason? there is a reason for this please look it up and do your research,

2) if the seven day Adventist where fine worshiping as a organized church , why would they change there day from Saturday to sunday, ? for what reason  ? for by what drives this change ? and who is the agreement with to do a major move like this  ?

3) the fourth commandment tells us to keep the Sabbath holy, so we take this as to be Saturday , and we follow this according to the rest , or Sabbath granted to men to rest and observe ,the jewish customs , know that it was Saturday , and Jesus spoke on the Sabbath ,

 in fact if you look at the warning that when you see the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel fell into the mountains, and pray it is not in the Sabbath ? why did Jesus say pray it not be in the Sabbath, for in that time, on the Sabbath no one was able to go in or out of the city, ad the gates to the city where closed on that day , so I believe if there was something going on and you had to run you cannot get out for the gates are closed so this leads me to that Saturday , was observed and now it is taken away , by man, and if we really was in that time, it be very important to know this, but we are in a liberated world that there is no more God and all that is Holy is just a fable to many, and so when I try to explain and many that study the bible know this , then you will see how important it really is, and for our futre as the puzzle is placed together one piece at a time,

 for satan has blinded the eyes of the world we believe the lies that we here all the time, the one that its not wrong to go sunday instead of Saturday, ? or as long as you go to church, ?

this is called  a slow fade, when the water comes in a little at a time, you don't notice it right away but then the high tide rolls in and then you are up to your waist in water, so this is the same, but over time satan has found how to slowly fade in the evil and deception to the people to fool then o with ine thing at a time and to do it slowly to not raise  alert,

 and so as it was in the pass, with the blues law, it will come again, you have been warned, it will be called family rest day or something very appealing to people , but it will be a mandatory sunday law, and the one pushing for this comes, from the same system that changed the day in the past, it is now in legislation and up for passing, , the main person trying to pass this well, we all know who is the man of peace on earth? the one that is washing the feet of people, , and forgiving people of their sins, and have made a miracle with some water and blood in the bottle, and it goes on,

 so for all those that say this is all fables, you will be told one day , and it will be under watch by the electronic system , and there is going to be a fine, and punish ment,, for those that do not comply, so be alert and be watchful, for the day of the system is here,  do not let anyone deceive you , Jesus said,

 just food for thought

Ok, I see a few errors in your post.

In 321 ce, that meeting sought to separate from anything Jewish, so they changed the name of Pascha to Easter and changed the dates. They changed the Sabbath to the first day of the week because as they said, it was the Lord's day. But, in scripture, the church gathered on the Lord's day, so the Nicene council called the 1st day the Sabbath (against scripture) but Christians were already meeting on the Lord's day before the Nicene council.

No where in scripture does it say the Sabbath was to be a day of prayer or worship. It was to be a day of rest from work. If a person prays and worships on the Sabbath, or any other day, it is good, but the law does not command prayer or worship on the Sabbath in particular.

I looked up the SDA and discovered that one SDA church decided to hold Sunday services. It was not something commanded by SDA hierarchy.

http://www.al.com/living/index.ssf/2015/02/seventh-day_adventist_sunday.html

"This is kind of next in the evolution of things," said First SDA Pastor Debleaire Snell, an energetic 37-year-old with an engaging smile and quick intelligence. "The Sunday service is going to be a first point of contact for the unchurched in the community and for people who, for whatever reason - beliefs, work - can't come on Saturday. We have communicated to the Conference office (the regional center) because they wanted clarity on this, but once we communicated the purpose to them, they saw that it is not a big deal."

The abomination of desolation occurs in the re-built Temple in Jerusalem. The verse about praying it is not on the Sabbath is speaking to Jewish people.

Exodus 31:13Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the Lord that doth sanctify you

The Sabbaths were given to the children of Israel as a sign between God and the children of Israel. The sign between God and Christians is the indwelling Holy Spirit, not the Sabbath.

Having lived with blue laws before, it is not a big deal as I said. The Jewish people are a very small minority in the U.S., and that is simply a part of being a minority. Society is culturally based more on the majority so the practices are based on the majorities desires. St. Patrick's day is popular in the U.S. and green hats, clovers etc are found in every store. Corned beef and cabbage goes on sale in the grocery stores. It is not a big deal. Just some history on the corned beef. The Irish used a different meat for their boiled dinner but it was hard to find in the U.S. In NYC, the Irish neighborhood was beside the Jewish neighborhood and the Irish discovered that corned beef which was sold in every Jewish market, was a good substitute for the meat in the Irish boiled dinner. So, corned beef and cabbage became a new Irish tradition, because the Irish lived near the Jewish neighborhood.      

[other one]

29 minutes ago, post said:

as much as i appreciate seeing the standard "sabbath thread toolkit" in use, what i'd really like to understand is how does love for God and for others fulfill the 4th commandment? 

and i'm not looking for someone just to tell me 'if you love God you keep His commands' -- but if you did not have the law telling you that this is what you must do, how would love lead you to righteously fulfill this? 

thanks

 

Jesus wants you to lead a holy life....   remember that when people were following that sabbath law, they did not have the Holy Spirit within them all the time.....     We simply don't need a sabbath if we have accepted him as Lord and have the Holy Spirit within us.....   we should be constantly reminded of him and his day of rest and realize that we can't save ourselves and are putting our rest in trusting Jesus.

If you look at what he did to the other commandments such as murder,,,,,,   he told us not to even hate people without a cause....   we are not only supposed to not comit murder, we are not even supposed to want to.....   same with Sexual things and stealing.....    the forth commandment simply becomes a complete way of life.

Don't know if that's part of anyone's toolkit, but it's the way I see what Jesus wants.

[simplejeff]

see in ROMANS, I think , where Yahweh says there are even those gentiles who don't have torah keep torah , and those who had torah did not keep torah.... 

Yahweh is Totally Faithful to Guard HIS WORD, and give every man who seeks HIM LIFE, to the Jew first, and then the gentile.

37 minutes ago, post said:

...... -- but if you did not have the law telling you that this is what you must do, how would love lead you to righteously fulfill this?  ....

 

[Retrobyter]

20 minutes ago, post said:

as much as i appreciate seeing the standard "sabbath thread toolkit" in use, what i'd really like to understand is how does love for God and for others fulfill the 4th commandment? 

and i'm not looking for someone just to tell me 'if you love God you keep His commands' -- but if you did not have the law telling you that this is what you must do, how would love lead you to righteously fulfill this? 

thanks

 

Shalom, post.

Oh, so THAT'S what you're looking for!

James Dobson once said that children spell "love" "T-I-M-E!" Children are simply more honest in their approach to the world than adults are, but adults, too, will ultimately spell "love" the same way. We NEED to socialize with others and we NEED others to socialize with us. We get that from the Creator Himself!

The whole point of the Shabbat is not to sit around all day and twiddle our thumbs. (Watch out, though! "Twiddling one's thumbs" might be considered "work!")

G-D wants us to spend our time that day with HIM! Love for God is spending time with Him! To keep His commandment of "remember the Shabbat day to keep it holy" is not the thing we do to show our love for Him; we show our love for Him by looking FORWARD to - ANTICIPATING - our "date" with HIM! Then, when that day arrives, we gladly lay aside all the other "cares of this world" to spend our time with HIM! It's not a duty we perform; it's a blessing we enjoy! As we "fill up our love tank" with Him, that love will flow outward to others around us.

[SINNERSAVED]

7 minutes ago, Qnts2 said:

Ok, I see a few errors in your post.

In 321 ce, that meeting sought to separate from anything Jewish, so they changed the name of Pascha to Easter and changed the dates. They changed the Sabbath to the first day of the week because as they said, it was the Lord's day. But, in scripture, the church gathered on the Lord's day, so the Nicene council called the 1st day the Sabbath (against scripture) but Christians were already meeting on the Lord's day before the Nicene council.

No where in scripture does it say the Sabbath was to be a day of prayer or worship. It was to be a day of rest from work. If a person prays and worships on the Sabbath, or any other day, it is good, but the law does not command prayer or worship on the Sabbath in particular.

I looked up the SDA and discovered that one SDA church decided to hold Sunday services. It was not something commanded by SDA hierarchy.

http://www.al.com/living/index.ssf/2015/02/seventh-day_adventist_sunday.html

"This is kind of next in the evolution of things," said First SDA Pastor Debleaire Snell, an energetic 37-year-old with an engaging smile and quick intelligence. "The Sunday service is going to be a first point of contact for the unchurched in the community and for people who, for whatever reason - beliefs, work - can't come on Saturday. We have communicated to the Conference office (the regional center) because they wanted clarity on this, but once we communicated the purpose to them, they saw that it is not a big deal."

The abomination of desolation occurs in the re-built Temple in Jerusalem. The verse about praying it is not on the Sabbath is speaking to Jewish people.

Exodus 31:13Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the Lord that doth sanctify you

The Sabbaths were given to the children of Israel as a sign between God and the children of Israel. The sign between God and Christians is the indwelling Holy Spirit, not the Sabbath.

Having lived with blue laws before, it is not a big deal as I said. The Jewish people are a very small minority in the U.S., and that is simply a part of being a minority. Society is culturally based more on the majority so the practices are based on the majorities desires. St. Patrick's day is popular in the U.S. and green hats, clovers etc are found in every store. Corned beef and cabbage goes on sale in the grocery stores. It is not a big deal. Just some history on the corned beef. The Irish used a different meat for their boiled dinner but it was hard to find in the U.S. In NYC, the Irish neighborhood was beside the Jewish neighborhood and the Irish discovered that corned beef which was sold in every Jewish market, was a good substitute for the meat in the Irish boiled dinner. So, corned beef and cabbage became a new Irish tradition, because the Irish lived near the Jewish neighborhood.      

thank you for your response, but you have not found the correct research, that I am saying, and it was 321 ad that augustine decided to change Saturday to sunday for others reasons, 'the niecen counsel was not the same,

 the seven day Adventist are faced with the change of there day of church, its in the works, if it did not already happen, I have been talking with a couple guys that are from the church.

the sunday law comes with rules that will have a real impact on people for sure, they do have a book at there church that you can get , called the mandatory sunday law, its a great read and a lot of information, in it, that affects everyone, its not about just there church, so I don't want any one to say I am promoting a group, , its a book, with information, thank you

 the Sabbath day the gates were shut, that's why it was told,

 its hard to bring up a lot of info at one time, in short post to explain in full detail, so it has to be researched, and that also helps others to read and seek more of the truth as it pertains to the changes from what was and what is now,

 but you do have information but you need to make sure you are getting correct information from good sources, for there is a lot to keep you away from the truth , even the history books, have been made to make you believe lies, so be careful and get several resources of the same to try to verify , its real meaning ,

blessings to you

[simplejeff]

17 minutes ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom,......

G-D wants us to spend our time that day with HIM! Love for God is spending time with Him! To keep His commandment of "remember the Shabbat day to keep it holy" is not the thing we do to show our love for Him; we show our love for Him by looking FORWARD to - ANTICIPATING - our "date" with HIM! Then, when that day arrives, we gladly lay aside all the other "cares of this world" to spend our time with HIM! It's not a duty we perform; it's a blessing we enjoy! As we "fill up our love tank" with Him, that love will flow outward to others around us.

Yes,  and that's also how HE says others will know who is HIS by the love they have for one another - keeping HIS WORD.

Not emotional.  Not feelings.  But observable deeds and actions, obeying HIM, keeping HIS WORD, sheer DELIGHT !