a simple(?) question about sabbath

[post]

18 minutes ago, simplejeff said:

Maybe, instead of even 'risking' teaching the letter of the law that kills, 

ask everyone what Yahweh has done for them - what good word does everyone have about GOD and what HE HAS DONE for them.   What grace has Yahweh poured out on them TODAY / the last week or year ? 

What healing has Yahweh done ? 

As it is written in HIS WORD - everything needed for life TODAY, and in the life to come, 

has already been generously provided and planned for ((by Yahweh )) in accordance with all of HIS WORD and 

HIS GREAT LOVE HE HAS FOR US.   And - "when you come together, let each one in his turn tell what psalm or hymn or spiritual song is in their heart;  let one at a time speak a few minutes decently and in order"

i appreciate this advice - but the reality is that i meet every week with between 15 and 30 other brothers and sisters in Christ, who have been studying Romans together for about 2.5 years. i've been called to lead the group for a while - and tonight we are going to talk about the second half of Romans 13:8 -- that the one who loves another has fulfilled the law. hence this thread; i've been thinking and praying all week about the implication of this part of the word. 

we do these things anyway - what you suggest - but we also have a focus on the scripture, and God has purposed for me that i should lead discussion & talk about what Paul was moved by the Spirit to write in that particular passage.

 

[Guest]

37 minutes ago, post said:

i appreciate this advice - but the reality is that i meet every week with between 15 and 30 other brothers and sisters in Christ, who have been studying Romans together for about 2.5 years. i've been called to lead the group for a while - and tonight we are going to talk about the second half of Romans 13:8 -- that the one who loves another has fulfilled the law. hence this thread; i've been thinking and praying all week about the implication of this part of the word. 

we do these things anyway - what you suggest - but we also have a focus on the scripture, and God has purposed for me that i should lead discussion & talk about what Paul was moved by the Spirit to write in that particular passage.

 

I do not know if you have considered this already or not...

When Paul speaks of law, he often speaks in the context of the first book of Moses. Especially when speaking to Gentiles, the law is presented more in context of covenant promises found prior to the law at Sinai.

An example..

Ga 4:21  Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?

Paul in the above speaks of hearing the law, as apart from, or prior to Moses law. He often teaches in the context of law as found in Genesis.

22  For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.
 

Have you taught fulfilment of law as walking in the promises made to all nations in promise to Abraham?

Ro 4:12  And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised.

400 years before law from moses was given.......................................

Gen 26:5  Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.
 

[ezekiel]

On 3/21/2016 at 5:03 PM, ezekiel said:

When you came to Christ you have entered the Sabbath

Matthew 12:8

For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.

 

When we enter into the Sabbath we should try to walk in love as Christ taught and our Father.

 

Exodus 20:8

Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

 

You also have entered into his rest and  labour not like you did.

 

Matthew 11:28

Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

 

Yea you keep the law if you walk right every day more so on saturday or sunday , monday ect.

 

For at the end of the sixth day, the end of earth the lord of the sabbath comes, and every thing he created will be finished.  

 

They may even prevent them to come to Christ and enter into His Kingdom. Tell them do this and do that you lay heavy burdens on them stopping up the Kingdom that they go else where when the have been free. 

 

23 Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples,

² Saying The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:

³ All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.

⁴ For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.

⁵ But all their works they do for to be seen of men: they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments,

 

[Last Daze]

On ‎3‎/‎20‎/‎2016 at 11:48 AM, other one said:

Jesus wants you to lead a holy life....   remember that when people were following that sabbath law, they did not have the Holy Spirit within them all the time.....     We simply don't need a sabbath if we have accepted him as Lord and have the Holy Spirit within us.....   we should be constantly reminded of him and his day of rest and realize that we can't save ourselves and are putting our rest in trusting Jesus.

If you look at what he did to the other commandments such as murder,,,,,,   he told us not to even hate people without a cause....   we are not only supposed to not comit murder, we are not even supposed to want to.....   same with Sexual things and stealing.....    the forth commandment simply becomes a complete way of life.

Don't know if that's part of anyone's toolkit, but it's the way I see what Jesus wants.

I agree.  God wants us to worship Him in Spirit and truth.  It's a lifestyle, not a once a week thing.  I personally esteem each day alike.

• One person regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind.  Romans 14:5

[Last Daze]

2 hours ago, post said:

i want to thank all of you who have helped me, who have been used by God to help me gain wisdom and understanding about this question of mine. 

now i have another question, that is very much related -- how does love fulfill tithing laws? 
imagine you were saved in some country hostile to the gospel, and didn't have any copy of the scripture, but had heard the word and believed, and received the Holy Ghost -- if all you have is love for God and for your neighbor, but no knowledge of the Torah, would you ever arrive at "10%" ? how would that love in you fulfill the law? 

thanks again. 
and really, it's no offense to me to have gone off topic some. i just wanted to gently push you back towards the OP question, because it's important to me to understand this, because i'm supposed to teach on it, and a have a lot of trepidation about teaching anything remotely false, so i'm looking for wisdom, and the truth. that's all. much love for every reply

From what I understand, tithing was to support the priesthood and was specific to Israel.  New testament giving I see as:

• Now this I say, he who sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and he who sows bountifully will also reap bountifully.  Each one must do just as he has purposed in his heart, not grudgingly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.  And God is able to make all grace abound to you, so that always having all sufficiency in everything, you may have an abundance for every good deed.  2 Corinthians 9:6-8

Give cheerfully as you have predetermined.  Don't rationalize buying that *whatever* if it causes a compromise in your giving.

[post]

35 minutes ago, Last Daze said:

From what I understand, tithing was to support the priesthood and was specific to Israel.  New testament giving I see as:

• Now this I say, he who sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and he who sows bountifully will also reap bountifully.  Each one must do just as he has purposed in his heart, not grudgingly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.  And God is able to make all grace abound to you, so that always having all sufficiency in everything, you may have an abundance for every good deed.  2 Corinthians 9:6-8

Give cheerfully as you have predetermined. 

this is what i understand too -- noting especially that in this first Corinthian letter Paul says giving should be not under compulsion.

[post]

2 hours ago, simplejeff said:

if it's Yahweh's Love, true love, then the same as in ACTS and throughout TORAH. 

GIVE to anyone who needs help, IF you have what they need.

SHARE might be a better word than give - understand that everyone of Yahweh's children consider nothing their own- every thing IS HIS. ((To USE correctly, same as TORAH)) ((and ,, like ABBA,  GENEROUSLY - RIDICULOUSLY GENEROUS in the view of the world and their estimation; and in the WORD of SCRIPTURE))

yes

so what i understand is that if you love God, you will freely & cheerfully give toward whatever capacity you perceive Him working in - and loving others, you will also freely and cheerfully give what is in your power to give, in order to meet needs. 

the purpose of the tithes in Moses' law was to support those who did not have their own means of support, right? primarily, the Levite, who was charged with ministering before God on behalf of the people, and ministering to the people on behalf of God. is this a shadow of what love compels us to give, towards the work of God and the needs of others? so that in this way, the righteousness of meeting the requirement of the law is met by the one who loves and out of love, shows hospitality and generosity both to God and his neighbor? 

thanks

[post]

1 hour ago, Joline said:

I do not know if you have considered this already or not...

When Paul speaks of law, he often speaks in the context of the first book of Moses. Especially when speaking to Gentiles, the law is presented more in context of covenant promises found prior to the law at Sinai.

in the context that brought on the questions in this thread, Romans 13:8-10, Paul specifically quotes Exodus 20 (from the septuagint, i'm told, which someone might find interesting) and references Leviticus 19:18. 
so while it may be the case that in other places he refers to pre-Sinai covenant promises, here, he is definitely talking about the law as given through Moses. 

[Guest]

21 minutes ago, post said:

in the context that brought on the questions in this thread, Romans 13:8-10, Paul specifically quotes Exodus 20 (from the septuigant, which someone might find interesting) and references Leviticus 19:18. 
so while it may be the case that in other places he refers to pre-Sinai covenant promises, here, he is definitely talking about the law as given through Moses. 

Paul's quoting of Moses law does not mean these are not prior law. Moses law being "additional law" means prior law  is retained, which was universal.

See Lev 18 on this.

We see the inhabitants of the land being judged for their iniquity, and the nation of Israel is warned from doing those same things.

Le 18:25  And the land is defiled: therefore I do visit the iniquity thereof upon it, and the land itself vomiteth out her inhabitants.
Le 18:27  (For all these abominations have the men of the land done, which were before you, and the land is defiled

the above scripture concerns the thing spoken to Abraham 430 years earlier.

Ge 15:16  But in the fourth generation they shall come hither again: for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet full.

Gen 26:5  Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.
 

 

 

[simplejeff]

Yes in part to previous - will try to get back for that later - about tithe to support levites .... I think more of caring for the poor and homeless and stranger, true widows and orphans especially , obviously from TORAH/every WORD that proceeds from Yahweh's mouth.....

For now, this -->...

2 hours ago, post said:

i appreciate this advice - but the reality is that i meet every week with between 15 and 30 other brothers and sisters in Christ, who have been studying Romans together for about 2.5 years. i've been called to lead the group for a while - and tonight we are going to talk about the second half of Romans 13:8 -- that the one who loves another has fulfilled the law. hence this thread; i've been thinking and praying all week about the implication of this part of the word. 

we do these things anyway - what you suggest - but we also have a focus on the scripture, and God has purposed for me that i should lead discussion & talk about what Paul was moved by the Spirit to write in that particular passage.

 

Not so much advice as maybe reminder you already have read in YAHWEH'S WORD.  ((just seeing posts this thread)).

Yes- as determined way for group in faith no problem, perhaps.  Other classes I saw frequently, so-called 'teacher' was false teacher, and no possible way of correction.  Yes, false teacher - not just honest mistake in class.--BUT THAT WAS in classes IN FALSE CHURCHES, not in assembly of real believers .

NOT comparing those classes and churches to yours- just good for constant reminders to one another to be aware  and not be deceived  by sin or flesh in ourselves but daily watch out for one another as it is written. 

The daily life in union in fellowship with Yahshua with other believers is very important and practices this almost automatically , like the sharing in ACTS, and for 100 years or more as reported by Yahweh's chosen men around and about that time - AND surprise ? ! ? the Christian's LIFE so different than churches today and  so different  from all other peoples , reported by pagans about the Christians and their joy and selfless  lives ALWAYS  lifting up JESUS, always talking about JESUS, the heathen(((AND the religious))) often calling the Christians  very vulgar names and LITERALLY accusing them of eating babies and drinking real blood (((which they NEVER DID/DO)))((COMMON PAGAN PRACTICE ADOPTED BY state run churches, btw))((what they 'declared' was 'real blood'  NEVER WAS,a still practiced  abomination to YAHWEH and YAHSHUA))

whew,  was that a detour from the topic ?  ((yes, a good one ))

back on track >>

3 hours ago, post said:

that the one who loves another has fulfilled the law. hence this thread; i've been thinking and praying all week about the implication of this part of the word. 

requires revelation.  there is so much current error and on purpose deception almost everywhere ..... wickednesses practiced and taught for centuries.

shalom in prayer and in Yahshua Messiah.