pre trib rapture is fake true or false

[Omegaman 3.0]

8 minutes ago, n2thelight said:

Don't think I ever said,nor does scripture teach that the flesh rises.....

The flesh returns to the dust,your spirit returns to God.We are spirit not flesh,not understanding why people make this so difficult....

Perhaps people are looking to scripture, and seeing a bodily resurrection:

• For our citizenship is in heaven, from which also we eagerly wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ; 21 who will transform the body of our humble state into conformity with the body of His glory, by the exertion of the power that He has even to subject all things to Himself.
• Beloved, now we are children of God, and it has not appeared as yet what we will be. We know that when He appears, we will be like Him, because we will see Him just as He is.
• For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection
• "See My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself; touch Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have."
• 42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown a perishable body, it is raised an imperishable body; 43 it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; 44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. 
• Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed, 52in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.
• 13 But we do not want you to be uninformed, brethren, about those who are asleep, so that you will not grieve as do the rest who have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus. 15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air

Those are a few passages that may have misled me, but they sort of sound like a bodily resurrection to me! It may not be flesh as we know it, not the same body, but it IS a body, not a body-less spirit.

If we will be like HIm, and He has flesh and bones, then you can connect the dots.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[coheir]

can some one explain this please

50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

if I read this right the body we live in on earth will not be our body forever

[Last Daze]

1 hour ago, coheir said:

can some one explain this please

50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

if I read this right the body we live in on earth will not be our body forever

Correct.  We will put on an immortal body.

Also note the distinction between Jesus' immortal "flesh and bone" and Paul's description of mortal "flesh and blood".

[WilliamL]

On 4/20/2016 at 9:57 PM, n2thelight said:

You all really think this flesh body will rise,it's not gonna happen,the flesh shall return from whence it came....DUST!!!!,Never to be nor needed again...

So what happened to the body of Jesus? it was, after all, gone from the tomb. Did it turn to dust in three days, and the Gospel writers fail to mention it? Did someone steal it away and hide it?

Ezek. 37:13 “Then you shall know that I am the LORD, when I have opened your graves, O My people, and brought you up from your graves."

Mat 27:52 ...and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised; 53 and coming out of the graves after His resurrection, they went into the holy city and appeared to many.

If the bodies of the dead are not restored, is then the opening of the graves just for show?

[Serving]

8 hours ago, coheir said:

can some one explain this please

50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

if I read this right the body we live in on earth will not be our body forever

Yes, that is what it says to me too.

It is written, " God is a Spirit"  .. if we are going to become part of His family, then we must become spirit too at the resurrection .. otherwise we would be of 'another flesh' , and being of 'another flesh' would never allow us to be truly 'of ' that SAME family which is made of spirit and not flesh.

Some teach that "spirit is body-less" .. yet NOWHERE in the scriptures is this said, NOWHERE .. they forget that WE are made in God's image, and if WE have 2 legs, 2 arms, torso, neck & head .. then God does too, other words, if God is "body-less" then so are we .. which clearly we are not .. I think some confuse the abilities that spirit possesses opposed to its actual given form, which as implied by my statement, is not bound in the same way our flesh bodies are bound .. that is, spirit is more "elastic" if I can use that term, whereas flesh is bound and unchanging (non 'elastic').   

[MorningGlory]

26 minutes ago, Serving said:

Yes, that is what it says to me too.

It is written, " God is a Spirit"  .. if we are going to become part of His family, then we must become spirit too at the resurrection .. otherwise we would be of 'another flesh' , and being of 'another flesh' would never allow us to be truly 'of ' that SAME family which is made of spirit and not flesh.

Some teach that "spirit is body-less" .. yet NOWHERE in the scriptures is this said, NOWHERE .. they forget that WE are made in God's image, and if WE have 2 legs, 2 arms, torso, neck & head .. then God does too, other words, if God is "body-less" then so are we .. which clearly we are not .. I think some confuse the abilities that spirit possesses opposed to its actual given form, which as implied by my statement, is not bound in the same way our flesh bodies are bound .. that is, spirit is more "elastic" if I can use that term, whereas flesh is bound and unchanging (non 'elastic').   

I just have to point out that, if our bodies won't be resurrected, it would be pointless for the graves to open and the Bible tells us they will; even the dead in the seas will be gathered to Him.  Jesus was resurrected bodily, Lazarus was resurrected bodily the little girl that Jesus brought back was resurrected bodily and so were 500 or so resurrected dead that roamed the streets of Jerusalem after Jesus was resurrected.  I'm seeing a pattern here.

[coheir]

below from kjv or Got Questions

The great white throne judgment is described in Revelation 20:11-15 and is the final judgment prior to the lost being cast into the lake of fire. We know from Revelation 20:7-15 that this judgment will take place after the millennium and after Satan, the beast, and the false prophet are thrown into the lake of fire (Revelation 20:7-10). The books that are opened (Revelation 20:12) contain records of everyone’s deeds, whether they are good or evil, because God knows everything that has ever been said, done, or even thought, and He will reward or punish each one accordingly (Psalm 28:4; 62:12; Romans 2:6; Revelation 2:23; 18:6; 22:12).

in the above statement we may be in a human body

in the below statements we may not be in human body

when Jesus was transfigured he still had the image of man

1 Corin 15

48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.

49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

 

1 John 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

so if I look at 1John 3:2 I would think Jesus is coming from heaven from being seated on the right hand of God and where 1Corin 15:50 says no flesh and blood just because no flesh and blood he can still be the image of man like in  Ezk below

Undoubtedly, the purpose of the transfiguration of Christ into at least a part of His heavenly glory was so that the “inner circle” of His disciples could gain a greater understanding of who Jesus was. Christ underwent a dramatic change in appearance in order that the disciples could behold Him in His glory. The disciples, who had only known Him in His human body, now had a greater realization of the deity of Christ, though they could not fully comprehend it. That gave them the reassurance they needed after hearing the shocking news of His coming death.

Ezekiel 1:26-28 declares, “Above the expanse over their heads was what looked like a throne of sapphire, and high above   on the throne was a figure like that of a man.

I saw that from what appeared to be his waist up he looked like glowing metal, as if full of fire, and that from there down he looked like fire; and brilliant light surrounded him. Like the appearance of a rainbow in the clouds on a rainy day, so was the radiance around him.” Revelation 1:14-16 proclaims, “His head and hair were white like wool, as white as snow, and his eyes were like blazing fire. His feet were like bronze glowing in a furnace, and his voice was like the sound of rushing waters. In his right hand he held seven stars, and out of his mouth came a sharp double-edged sword. His face was like the sun shining in all its brilliance.”

Now if live on earth forever we may be flesh and blood but if we live in heaven bible says no flesh and blood ????????????

[WilliamL]

13 hours ago, coheir said:

1 Corin 15

48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.

49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

You left off right at verses 53-54, which resolve the whole question about the state of the physical body at this time:

1 Cor. 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: “Death is swallowed up in victory.”

The physical body becomes "changed," becoming incorruptible and immortal: it does not cease to exist, it changes state. Instead of the soul being confined and conformed within a physical and unchangeable shell of flesh and bones, those flesh and bones will become mutable. That is, the soul will determine the form of the body, not the other way around. The body will thereafter appear as "clothing" suited to fit the state of the soul.

For those becoming purified and heavenly, that bodily form will be beautiful beyond what we presently see, in the perfect image of its intended form. For those remaining unpurified and corrupted, it will be twisted and distorted and ugly beyond anything presently seen on earth.

[Serving]

16 hours ago, MorningGlory said:

I just have to point out that, if our bodies won't be resurrected, it would be pointless for the graves to open and the Bible tells us they will; even the dead in the seas will be gathered to Him.  Jesus was resurrected bodily, Lazarus was resurrected bodily the little girl that Jesus brought back was resurrected bodily and so were 500 or so resurrected dead that roamed the streets of Jerusalem after Jesus was resurrected.  I'm seeing a pattern here.

Yes, the pattern was that they all died again .. yet it is written that the resurrected will never die again.

So then, those examples you gave can not be defined as "the resurrected" in the the way the bible itself uses that word "resurrected", which, again, is only reserved to explain those who become immortal, unlike your given examples who did die again. 

As for "the graves to open" .. that is not once used in any explanation describing the events taking place on the literal and set day of the resurrection of the saints .. not in the KJV at least.

And back to "resurrection" .. notice neither Jesus nor His Apostles used that word "resurrection" even once when describing the events you exampled above, not once .. yet they ALL spoke of the resurrection itself frequently, but never applied that term to even one of those examples and the others not exampled besides .. don't you find that odd?

And what do we make of your given examples when faced with these revelations :

Colossians 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate [to be] conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. 

1 Corinthians 15:20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, [and] become the firstfruits of them that slept. 

Revelation 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, [who is] the faithful witness, [and] the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, 

Obviously, something else is being spoken of which stands in direct opposition to those examples you supplied above .. which means we need to take all the relevant subject matter in the bible and bring them together to get the correct understanding as to what is being conveyed to us .. that is, not to concentrate on a small sample of the individual pieces, but to scrutinize ALL the examples which ONLY together, can truly show us the whole picture/meaning being conveyed.

And from what I understand, the resurrection of the saints itself is only intended for one set and literal day, that literal day of the Lord itself which happens at the 2nd coming. 

 

[MorningGlory]

1 hour ago, Serving said:

Yes, the pattern was that they all died again .. yet it is written that the resurrected will never die again.

So then, those examples you gave can not be defined as "the resurrected" in the the way the bible itself uses that word "resurrected", which, again, is only reserved to explain those who become immortal, unlike your given examples who did die again. 

As for "the graves to open" .. that is not once used in any explanation describing the events taking place on the literal and set day of the resurrection of the saints .. not in the KJV at least.

And back to "resurrection" .. notice neither Jesus nor His Apostles used that word "resurrection" even once when describing the events you exampled above, not once .. yet they ALL spoke of the resurrection itself frequently, but never applied that term to even one of those examples and the others not exampled besides .. don't you find that odd?

And what do we make of your given examples when faced with these revelations :

Colossians 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate [to be] conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. 

1 Corinthians 15:20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, [and] become the firstfruits of them that slept. 

Revelation 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, [who is] the faithful witness, [and] the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, 

Obviously, something else is being spoken of which stands in direct opposition to those examples you supplied above .. which means we need to take all the relevant subject matter in the bible and bring them together to get the correct understanding as to what is being conveyed to us .. that is, not to concentrate on a small sample of the individual pieces, but to scrutinize ALL the examples which ONLY together, can truly show us the whole picture/meaning being conveyed.

And from what I understand, the resurrection of the saints itself is only intended for one set and literal day, that literal day of the Lord itself which happens at the 2nd coming. 

 

I see your point but I don't agree.  Man will be resurrected bodily and nowhere in Scripture is it stated that only spirit lives again. At least one of those I mentioned didn't die again, for sure, and we have no proof that any of the others did either.