The Sabbath and Sunday Worship.

[brakelite]

7 hours ago, Just a Mirror said:

If you have been called to do something I have not, it does not mean I am wrong and you are right, it only means God called you to something for a purpose FOR YOU.

What you have just described to me is how the Church has been divided for 2000 years.

One man has felt a calling and then feels it necessary to teach HIS calling as scripture, Legalism.

We are under GRACE meaning we each are called to serve a purpose that is ONLY for us. Now, maybe 2 people, or 50, or 1000 have a SIMILAR calling, then they should live THEIR calling, not become their own personal prophet.

Like I said, if God wants you there on Saturday it's because you have a mission for Him there, not to start your own LLC.

Peace.

The church became divided because after a couple of hundred years all gathering on Sabbath, as the custom was for apostle and Savior alike, a certain section decided that Sunday was a more appropriate day to gather together on for several reasons. First, it was already a pagan day of sun worship, and officially recognized as such in the empire. That empire became very intolerant of Jews after several uprisings in the early centuries, and knowing full well that Sabbath was a special day for hem, outed the Jews because of their resting on that day and gathering together. The Christians , or at least some, weakly decided to set themselves apart by gathering together on Sunday. Second, the Jews became rather intolerant of Christians worshiping in their synagogues every Sabbath, and devised prayers that blasphemed Jesus that outed the Christians, discouraging them from entering their meetings. Thirdly, the Roman Catholic church, among other pagan practices decided that Sunday would be a special "mark" of her authority in religious matters, persecuting all who dared to continue worshiping on Sabbath, including Jew and Christian.  Today, it has become so embedded in Christian psyche that most don't think to investigate it. Those that do come to a variety of conclusions, each coming to a different solution, and making a different excuse for not keeping Sabbath any more.

a. Every day is holy.

b. Any one day of the week can be holy.

c. Sunday is holy.

d. Jesus is holy (the Sabbath rest in Him etc etc)

e. No day is holy.

f. It was only for the Jews, therefore Christians can do what they like.

g. We are now living in the new covenant period, so we can do what we like.

h. We don't have to obey God's commandments.

i. Keeping Sabbath is impossible today because we don't know what day it is.

j. Keeping Sabbath is a burden, a yoke that Jesus doesn't want His people to be under.

k. Keeping Sabbath means one is trying to earn his salvation,

etc, etc , etc,.  Typical Babalonyish arguments where no-one can agree and all is confusion.

In coming to such conclusions the Bible is ignored. They are merely excuses for disobeying for many. Not one nor any of the above is found in scripture. God says throughout the OT that there is only one day that is holy, and that is the 7th day. The Bible says that it was the Creator who made it thus. Jesus.  So when Jesus comes along and says that He (Jesus) is still Lord of the Sabbath day, then He is saying nothing has changed. It is still the Lord's Day. It is still called the Sabbath. It is still set apart from every other day of the week. It is still holy. Thus it is still a sign between the disciple and His Lord that the disciple recognizes the authority of the One who made that day holy, and declares that neither man, nor the church he belongs to, has any authority to change it.

 

[WailingWall]

19 hours ago, Just a Mirror said:

We WORSHIP by LIVING in TRUTH and SPIRIT, those are not days.

That is the correct answer.

Peace and love.

 

 

JOHN 4 [23] But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. [24] GOD IS A SPIRIT: AND THEY THAT WORSHIP HIM MUST WORSHIP HIM IN SPIRIT AND IN TRUTH.

How do true worshipers worship? In spirit and truth

ROMANS 7 [14] For we know that THE LAW IS SPIRITUAL: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

In Romans 7 we see that the law is spiritual

ROMANS 15 [25] But now I go unto Jerusalem to minister unto the saints.[26] For it hath pleased them of Macedonia and Achaia to make a certain contribution for the poor saints which are at Jerusalem.[27] It hath pleased them verily; and their debtors they are. FOR IF THE GENTILES HAVE BEEN MADE PARTAKERS OF THEIR SPIRITUAL THINGS, their duty is also to minister unto them in carnal things.

The gentiles have been made partakers of Gods law.

ACTS 24 [13] Neither can they prove the things whereof they now accuse me.  [14] But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, SO WORSHIP I the God of my fathers, BELIEVING ALL THINGS WHICH ARE WRITTEN IN THE LAW and in the prophets:

Paul speaking

JOHN 14 [15] IF YE LOVE ME, KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS. [16] AND I WILL PRAY THE FATHER, AND HE SHALL GIVE YOU ANOTHER COMFORTER, that he may abide with you for ever; [17] EVEN THE SPIRIT OF TRUTH;

How are we to recieve this Spirit of truth spoken of in John 4?  By the keeping of Gods 10 commandments. Read the 4th. Its all about a day Mirror

[other one]

3 hours ago, WailingWall said:

 

JOHN 4 [23] But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. [24] GOD IS A SPIRIT: AND THEY THAT WORSHIP HIM MUST WORSHIP HIM IN SPIRIT AND IN TRUTH.

How do true worshipers worship? In spirit and truth

ROMANS 7 [14] For we know that THE LAW IS SPIRITUAL: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

In Romans 7 we see that the law is spiritual

ROMANS 15 [25] But now I go unto Jerusalem to minister unto the saints.[26] For it hath pleased them of Macedonia and Achaia to make a certain contribution for the poor saints which are at Jerusalem.[27] It hath pleased them verily; and their debtors they are. FOR IF THE GENTILES HAVE BEEN MADE PARTAKERS OF THEIR SPIRITUAL THINGS, their duty is also to minister unto them in carnal things.

The gentiles have been made partakers of Gods law.

ACTS 24 [13] Neither can they prove the things whereof they now accuse me.  [14] But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, SO WORSHIP I the God of my fathers, BELIEVING ALL THINGS WHICH ARE WRITTEN IN THE LAW and in the prophets:

Paul speaking

JOHN 14 [15] IF YE LOVE ME, KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS. [16] AND I WILL PRAY THE FATHER, AND HE SHALL GIVE YOU ANOTHER COMFORTER, that he may abide with you for ever; [17] EVEN THE SPIRIT OF TRUTH;

How are we to recieve this Spirit of truth spoken of in John 4?  By the keeping of Gods 10 commandments. Read the 4th. Its all about a day Mirror

no, by keeping Jesus's two commandments......    Jesus doesn't want to to remember the sabbath to keep it holy, he demands you lead a holy life all the time    24/7/365...     and he paid the price for sin and sent us the Holy Spirit to make it possible for us to do that.

He doesn't demand that we keep the ten commandments, he makes us not even want to or consider breaking them....    Before Jesus came none of us had the Holy Spirit and needed a day a week to just ponder on God.....    now we have him with us everywhere all the time and no longer need to do the sabbath rest....   we are resting in his work not ours.

[Just a Mirror]

16 hours ago, brakelite said:

The church became divided because after a couple of hundred years all gathering on Sabbath, as the custom was for apostle and Savior alike, a certain section decided that Sunday was a more appropriate day to gather together on for several reasons. First, it was already a pagan day of sun worship, and officially recognized as such in the empire. That empire became very intolerant of Jews after several uprisings in the early centuries, and knowing full well that Sabbath was a special day for hem, outed the Jews because of their resting on that day and gathering together. The Christians , or at least some, weakly decided to set themselves apart by gathering together on Sunday. Second, the Jews became rather intolerant of Christians worshiping in their synagogues every Sabbath, and devised prayers that blasphemed Jesus that outed the Christians, discouraging them from entering their meetings. Thirdly, the Roman Catholic church, among other pagan practices decided that Sunday would be a special "mark" of her authority in religious matters, persecuting all who dared to continue worshiping on Sabbath, including Jew and Christian.  Today, it has become so embedded in Christian psyche that most don't think to investigate it. Those that do come to a variety of conclusions, each coming to a different solution, and making a different excuse for not keeping Sabbath any more.

a. Every day is holy.

b. Any one day of the week can be holy.

c. Sunday is holy.

d. Jesus is holy (the Sabbath rest in Him etc etc)

e. No day is holy.

f. It was only for the Jews, therefore Christians can do what they like.

g. We are now living in the new covenant period, so we can do what we like.

h. We don't have to obey God's commandments.

i. Keeping Sabbath is impossible today because we don't know what day it is.

j. Keeping Sabbath is a burden, a yoke that Jesus doesn't want His people to be under.

k. Keeping Sabbath means one is trying to earn his salvation,

etc, etc , etc,.  Typical Babalonyish arguments where no-one can agree and all is confusion.

In coming to such conclusions the Bible is ignored. They are merely excuses for disobeying for many. Not one nor any of the above is found in scripture. God says throughout the OT that there is only one day that is holy, and that is the 7th day. The Bible says that it was the Creator who made it thus. Jesus.  So when Jesus comes along and says that He (Jesus) is still Lord of the Sabbath day, then He is saying nothing has changed. It is still the Lord's Day. It is still called the Sabbath. It is still set apart from every other day of the week. It is still holy. Thus it is still a sign between the disciple and His Lord that the disciple recognizes the authority of the One who made that day holy, and declares that neither man, nor the church he belongs to, has any authority to change it.

 

Okay, Paul's wrong, you are right, I guess we add the "Book of Brakelight" to the canon.

[brakelite]

2 hours ago, Just a Mirror said:

Okay, Paul's wrong, you are right, I guess we add the "Book of Brakelight" to the canon.

Show me where Paul teaches any of the above letter points.

[brakelite]

5 hours ago, other one said:

no, by keeping Jesus's two commandments......    Jesus doesn't want to to remember the sabbath to keep it holy, he demands you lead a holy life all the time    24/7/365...     and he paid the price for sin and sent us the Holy Spirit to make it possible for us to do that.

He doesn't demand that we keep the ten commandments, he makes us not even want to or consider breaking them....    Before Jesus came none of us had the Holy Spirit and needed a day a week to just ponder on God.....    now we have him with us everywhere all the time and no longer need to do the sabbath rest....   we are resting in his work not ours.

If Jesus doesn't want us as Christians to keep the Sabbath day holy, what then is the alternative for that day? Because it was Jesus that made the day holy in the beginning. The commandment doesn't say that we are to be holy, but that we keep the day holy. And no-where is it mentioned in scripture that the day has been made "unholy" by God...thus the day is still sanctified...set apart...a holy day. It is still sacred...not because we make it so by our observance, but because the Creator made it so before the fall of Adam. Sin did not affect it...the fall did not affect it...and when God made a people to follow Him, His requirement for His people was that they keep it holy. That hasn't changed. Christians are God's people. The law hasn't been abrogated or altered, except in the minds of some that reject any obligation to obey it. It is true that we are to live holy lives 24/7/365 days of the year. Keeping Sabbath isn't about us being holy one day a week like you suggest above...it is about keeping the day holy. It's about the day, not us.

If we choose not to obey the commandment....if we decide that the Sabbath is no longer to be observed, and claim we are permitted to do what we like on that day, then we desecrate the day, and by desecrating the day, we offend the one that made it sacred in the beginning.

Concerning your second paragraph, I do agree in part; that without the aid of the Holy Spirit in us we can do nothing. But I would ask, to what purpose? Is it not as you said, to live holy lives? So how can anyone live a holy life if it does not incorporate obedience to God's commandments, including the 4th?

[hmbld]

14 minutes ago, brakelite said:

If Jesus doesn't want us as Christians to keep the Sabbath day holy, what then is the alternative for that day? Because it was Jesus that made the day holy in the beginning. The commandment doesn't say that we are to be holy, but that we keep the day holy. And no-where is it mentioned in scripture that the day has been made "unholy" by God...thus the day is still sanctified...set apart...a holy day. It is still sacred...not because we make it so by our observance, but because the Creator made it so before the fall of Adam. Sin did not affect it...the fall did not affect it...and when God made a people to follow Him, His requirement for His people was that they keep it holy. That hasn't changed. Christians are God's people. The law hasn't been abrogated or altered, except in the minds of some that reject any obligation to obey it. It is true that we are to live holy lives 24/7/365 days of the year. Keeping Sabbath isn't about us being holy one day a week like you suggest above...it is about keeping the day holy. It's about the day, not us.

If we choose not to obey the commandment....if we decide that the Sabbath is no longer to be observed, and claim we are permitted to do what we like on that day, then we desecrate the day, and by desecrating the day, we offend the one that made it sacred in the beginning.

Concerning your second paragraph, I do agree in part; that without the aid of the Holy Spirit in us we can do nothing. But I would ask, to what purpose? Is it not as you said, to live holy lives? So how can anyone live a holy life if it does not incorporate obedience to God's commandments, including the 4th?

Hebrew 4:9-11 

9 So then, there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God, 10 for whoever has entered God’s rest has also rested from his works as God did from his. 

11 Let us therefore strive to enter that rest, so that no one may fall by the same sort of disobedience. 

 

Ahh, this is sooo refreshing!

[brakelite]

3 hours ago, hmbld said:

Hebrew 4:9-11 

9 So then, there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God, 10 for whoever has entered God’s rest has also rested from his works as God did from his. 

11 Let us therefore strive to enter that rest, so that no one may fall by the same sort of disobedience. 

 

Ahh, this is sooo refreshing!

If you are suggesting that the 'rest' spoken of here in Heb. 4:9-11 replaces the observance of the Sabbath in particular, I think you need to look at the issue from a different perspective.

During the period of the forty years’ sojourn in the wilderness, the children of Israel did very generally violate the Sabbath. Ezekiel has given us much information on this point. It even appears that while Moses was in the mount during the first forty days, Israel did then greatly pollute the Sabbath. It was one of the sins for which they came so near being shut out of the promised land at that time. Ezekiel 20:9-13. But God gave them a second probation, or rather prolonged their existing probation, but it was, for all that, a failure. So he lifted up his hand in the wilderness and solemnly swore that they should not enter the land. See Numbers 14:28, 29; Ezekiel 20:15. And here is the reason for this oath, as stated by Ezekiel in the next verse: “Because they despised my judgments, and walked not in my statutes, but polluted my Sabbaths: for their heart went after their idols.”

When, therefore, Paul wrote to the Hebrew people, who were converts to Christ, the descendants of these very persons who thus failed to enter the promised land because of their violation of the law of God in general, and of the Sabbath in particular, how significant to them must have been his solemn exhortation, Hebrews 4:11: “Let us labor therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.” Their unbelief showed itself in acts of direct and positive disobedience to God’s commandments, and in especial manner to his Sabbath. Against their evil example Paul solemnly warns all who would lay a hold of the name Christian, Jew or not. Thus to truly enter God's rest, whether Jew or Gentile, obedience is an essential component.

The prophet Isaiah has given us a glorious view of the future kingdom of God. When the second Adam shall, with the family of the redeemed, possess the new earth, then shall the immortal saints assemble from the whole face of the earth, on each successive Sabbath, to worship before the Lord of hosts. Isaiah 66:22, 23. And Paul tells us of this final rest of the redeemed, that there remains a Sabbatismos, i.e., as the margin has it, “a keeping of the Sabbath,” to the people of God. Hebrews 4:9. The Sabbath was made for man in Eden. It has survived the dreadful deluge of sin that has almost drowned out piety and truth in the earth. It exists to-day as the subject of promise and of prophecy. It stands firm as the pillars of Heaven, and is established in the immutable authority of God’s unchanging law. And when an end is made of sin, and none but holy beings remain to possess the immortal inheritance, the Sabbath made for man shall still exist, and
“All flesh shall keep it with one heart.”

[other one]

6 hours ago, brakelite said:

If Jesus doesn't want us as Christians to keep the Sabbath day holy, what then is the alternative for that day? Because it was Jesus that made the day holy in the beginning. The commandment doesn't say that we are to be holy, but that we keep the day holy. And no-where is it mentioned in scripture that the day has been made "unholy" by God...thus the day is still sanctified...set apart...a holy day. It is still sacred...not because we make it so by our observance, but because the Creator made it so before the fall of Adam. Sin did not affect it...the fall did not affect it...and when God made a people to follow Him, His requirement for His people was that they keep it holy. That hasn't changed. Christians are God's people. The law hasn't been abrogated or altered, except in the minds of some that reject any obligation to obey it. It is true that we are to live holy lives 24/7/365 days of the year. Keeping Sabbath isn't about us being holy one day a week like you suggest above...it is about keeping the day holy. It's about the day, not us.

If we choose not to obey the commandment....if we decide that the Sabbath is no longer to be observed, and claim we are permitted to do what we like on that day, then we desecrate the day, and by desecrating the day, we offend the one that made it sacred in the beginning.

Concerning your second paragraph, I do agree in part; that without the aid of the Holy Spirit in us we can do nothing. But I would ask, to what purpose? Is it not as you said, to live holy lives? So how can anyone live a holy life if it does not incorporate obedience to God's commandments, including the 4th?

Because God's first commandments will not get you eternal life.  New Covenant, new commands new outcome.

[brakelite]

15 hours ago, other one said:

Because God's first commandments will not get you eternal life.  New Covenant, new commands new outcome.

We all know and agree with that...it is a straw-man argument. Obedience we all agree does not bring salvation....but if you think that disobedience does not affect salvation have a talk with Adam. Then ask Jesus why He had to die. Was it not for disobedience? And you think it can be perpetuated?