What does this mean: “To the pure all things are pure”?

[Kan]

On 3/26/2016 at 2:42 AM, Ezra said:

The context is about false teachers who defiled everything and were to be soundly rebuked.   Please go back and read the passage.

Then what I wrote agrees...because Paul is saying that a bishop cannot afford to have a mindset that sees impurity in everything, like some people do.

I used to live near a couple of churches, similar to what some of you attend. Sometimes while walking I would stop and listen under a window, and I remember a minister, was particularly adamant about censuring evil, especially fornication etc. I wondered if his congregation had a problem with it, or if it was just a coincidence that they all assembled at the same place. Years later it was discovered by the town that the minister was at the time sexually abusing his own five children, from infancy to the age of 12.

To the impure all things are impure aren't they?

So when you see immorality, are you angry because you cannot participate, and then call out hell fire as a substitute, or do you see poor, unhappy, tormented souls trying to escape life through hedonism?

To the pure all things are pure. 

[Kan]

17 hours ago, MorningGlory said:

Ezra is absolutely right when he posted this:

The issue of clean and unclean meats is discussed several times in the New Testament, and the clear teaching of Christ is stated in Romans 14:14: I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.  Thus, “to the pure all things are pure”.

You clearly don't read Scripture or, if you do, you are not understanding it.

I doubt that the underlined text is permission to eat garbage. It's not about eating, note that it says "their mind and conscience is defiled," - not their belly. 

[Retrobyter]

On March 26, 2016 at 9:00 PM, Ezra said:

In order to understand Scripture we need to always relate the quotation to the context.  So what is the context of this saying?  It is Titus 1:9-16, and Paul is speaking about Jewish false teachers from Crete and what they are doing within the churches:

 GAINSAYERS 9 Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers.

VAIN TALKERS, DECEIVERS, JEWS 10 For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers, specially they of the circumcision:

SUBVERTERS FOCUSED ON MONETARY GAIN 11 Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake.

CRETANS: LIARS, EVIL BEASTS, IDLE GLUTTONS 12 One of themselves, even a prophet of their own, said, The Cretians are alway liars, evil beasts, slow bellies.

REBUKE NECESSARY 13 This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith;

SPREADING JEWISH  FABLES, AND THE COMMANDMENTS OF MEN 14 Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth.

DEFILING  EVERYTHING 15 Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.

FALSE PROFESSORS AND REPROBATE 16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

Why did Paul say “To the pure all things are pure” in this context? Just as the scribes and Pharisees condemned the apostles for not ritually washing their hands as required by rabbinic traditions, and accused them of being defiled, these false teachers were teaching the churches that they must follow the Jewish dietary restrictions of the Old Covenant, and that some meats were *defiled* (e.g. pork) while other meats were *pure* (e.g. beef and mutton).  

This is the general understanding by commentators of this verse in context, and these comments by Matthew Henry bear repeating: To good Christians that are sound in the faith and thereby purified all things are pure. Meats and drinks, and such things as were forbidden under the law (the observances of which some still maintain), in these there is now no such distinction, all are pure (lawful and free in their use), but to those that are defiled and unbelieving nothing is pure; things lawful and good they abuse and turn to sin; they suck poison out of that from which others draw sweetness; their mind and conscience, those leading faculties, being defiled, a taint is communicated to all they do.

The issue of clean and unclean meats is discussed several times in the New Testament, and the clear teaching of Christ is stated in Romans 14:14: I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.  Thus, “to the pure all things are pure”.

Can this in any way be applied to idol-worship, when the first and second commandments of the Ten Commandments  make it clear that idolatry is a sin, and the rest of Scripture calls idolatry spiritual “adultery”?  The answer should be obvious.

Shalom, Ezra.

What he meant was that all things were lawful to those who are considered "pure" because NOTHING can change one's relationship to G-D when one has been justified by HIM!

It's similar to other passages:

1 Corinthians 6:9-15
9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name (on the authority) of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.
12 All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.
13 Meats for the belly, and the belly for meats: but God shall destroy both it and them. Now the body is not for fornication, but for the Lord; and the Lord for the body.
14 And God hath both raised up the Lord, and will also raise up us by his own power.
15 Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ? shall I then take the members of Christ, and make them the members of an harlot? God forbid.
KJV

1 Corinthians 10:20-29
20 But I say, that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to devils, and not to God: and I would not that ye should have fellowship with devils.
21 Ye cannot drink the cup of the Lord, and the cup of devils: ye cannot be partakers of the Lord's table, and of the table of devils.
22 Do we provoke the Lord to jealousy? are we stronger than he?
23 All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not.
24 Let no man seek his own, but every man another's wealth.
25 Whatsoever is sold in the shambles (meat markets), that eat, asking no question for conscience sake:
26 For the earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof.
27 If any of them that believe not bid you to a feast, and ye be disposed to go; whatsoever is set before you, eat, asking no question for conscience sake.
28 But if any man say unto you, This is offered in sacrifice unto idols, eat not for his sake that shewed it, and for conscience sake: for the earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof:
29 Conscience, I say, not thine own, but of the other: for why is my liberty judged of another man's conscience?
KJV

Paul's dilemma was that meat once sacrificed to idols was also sold in the meat markets along side meat that was never offered to an idol. However, idols are NOT gods because there ARE NO gods beside the One True G-D! So, meat is just meat. If G-D has provided the meat for you, it is PURE. PERIOD.

HOWEVER, there are others who don't have that confidence. The weaker believer who thinks there is something wrong with meat that was offered to idols, indeed it is wrong for him to eat it, not because there's anything wrong with the meat, but because he THINKS there's something wrong with it! For HIS conscience's sake, he should not eat it. Furthermore, any stronger believer who knows the meat is okay, should ALSO not eat it in the presence of the weaker brother or sister for that brother's or sister's conscience sake!

These passages are NOT about "pork" or "lobster" or "shrimp" or any other "unclean meat." This was all about "clean meat," "kosher meat," sold in the Gentile meat markets, some of which was offered first to idols (that don't eat the meat).

I learned these principles growing up by the mnemonic "FULWEG": Is it of Faith? Is it Useful? Is it Loving? Is it Worthy? Is it Edifying? Is it Glorifying to G-D?

[Guest]

On ‎3‎/‎28‎/‎2016 at 5:01 PM, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, Ezra.

What he meant was that all things were lawful to those who are considered "pure" because NOTHING can change one's relationship to G-D when one has been justified by HIM!

It's similar to other passages:

1 Corinthians 6:9-15
9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name (on the authority) of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.
12 All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.
13 Meats for the belly, and the belly for meats: but God shall destroy both it and them. Now the body is not for fornication, but for the Lord; and the Lord for the body.
14 And God hath both raised up the Lord, and will also raise up us by his own power.
15 Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ? shall I then take the members of Christ, and make them the members of an harlot? God forbid.
KJV

1 Corinthians 10:20-29
20 But I say, that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to devils, and not to God: and I would not that ye should have fellowship with devils.
21 Ye cannot drink the cup of the Lord, and the cup of devils: ye cannot be partakers of the Lord's table, and of the table of devils.
22 Do we provoke the Lord to jealousy? are we stronger than he?
23 All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not.
24 Let no man seek his own, but every man another's wealth.
25 Whatsoever is sold in the shambles (meat markets), that eat, asking no question for conscience sake:
26 For the earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof.
27 If any of them that believe not bid you to a feast, and ye be disposed to go; whatsoever is set before you, eat, asking no question for conscience sake.
28 But if any man say unto you, This is offered in sacrifice unto idols, eat not for his sake that shewed it, and for conscience sake: for the earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof:
29 Conscience, I say, not thine own, but of the other: for why is my liberty judged of another man's conscience?
KJV

Paul's dilemma was that meat once sacrificed to idols was also sold in the meat markets along side meat that was never offered to an idol. However, idols are NOT gods because there ARE NO gods beside the One True G-D! So, meat is just meat. If G-D has provided the meat for you, it is PURE. PERIOD.

HOWEVER, there are others who don't have that confidence. The weaker believer who thinks there is something wrong with meat that was offered to idols, indeed it is wrong for him to eat it, not because there's anything wrong with the meat, but because he THINKS there's something wrong with it! For HIS conscience's sake, he should not eat it. Furthermore, any stronger believer who knows the meat is okay, should ALSO not eat it in the presence of the weaker brother or sister for that brother's or sister's conscience sake!

These passages are NOT about "pork" or "lobster" or "shrimp" or any other "unclean meat." This was all about "clean meat," "kosher meat," sold in the Gentile meat markets, some of which was offered first to idols (that don't eat the meat).

I learned these principles growing up by the mnemonic "FULWEG": Is it of Faith? Is it Useful? Is it Loving? Is it Worthy? Is it Edifying? Is it Glorifying to G-D?

The above passage of 10:20-29 speaks to this law

Lev 17:1  And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
2  Speak unto Aaron, and unto his sons, and unto all the children of Israel, and say unto them; This is the thing which the LORD hath commanded, saying,
3  What man soever there be of the house of Israel, that killeth an ox, or lamb, or goat, in the camp, or that killeth it out of the camp,
4  And bringeth it not unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, to offer an offering unto the LORD before the tabernacle of the LORD; blood shall be imputed unto that man; he hath shed blood; and that man shall be cut off from among his people:
5  To the end that the children of Israel may bring their sacrifices, which they offer in the open field, even that they may bring them unto the LORD, unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, unto the priest, and offer them for peace offerings unto the LORD.
6  And the priest shall sprinkle the blood upon the altar of the LORD at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, and burn the fat for a sweet savour unto the LORD.
7  And they shall no more offer their sacrifices unto devils, after whom they have gone a whoring. This shall be a statute for ever unto them throughout their generations.
8  And thou shalt say unto them, Whatsoever man there be of the house of Israel, or of the strangers which sojourn among you, that offereth a burnt offering or sacrifice,
9  And bringeth it not unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, to offer it unto the LORD; even that man shall be cut off from among his people.
10  And whatsoever man there be of the house of Israel, or of the strangers that sojourn among you, that eateth any manner of blood; I will even set my face against that soul that eateth blood, and will cut him off from among his people.
11  For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.
12  Therefore I said unto the children of Israel, No soul of you shall eat blood, neither shall any stranger that sojourneth among you eat blood.
 

A change of this law, is not independent of a change in kosher law.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Joline said:

The above passage of 10:20-29 speaks to this law of all to be brought to the temple ministers.

Lev 17:1  And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
2  Speak unto Aaron, and unto his sons, and unto all the children of Israel, and say unto them; This is the thing which the LORD hath commanded, saying,
3  What man soever there be of the house of Israel, that killeth an ox, or lamb, or goat, in the camp, or that killeth it out of the camp,
4  And bringeth it not unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, to offer an offering unto the LORD before the tabernacle of the LORD; blood shall be imputed unto that man; he hath shed blood; and that man shall be cut off from among his people:
5  To the end that the children of Israel may bring their sacrifices, which they offer in the open field, even that they may bring them unto the LORD, unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, unto the priest, and offer them for peace offerings unto the LORD.
6  And the priest shall sprinkle the blood upon the altar of the LORD at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, and burn the fat for a sweet savour unto the LORD.
7  And they shall no more offer their sacrifices unto devils, after whom they have gone a whoring. This shall be a statute for ever unto them throughout their generations.
8  And thou shalt say unto them, Whatsoever man there be of the house of Israel, or of the strangers which sojourn among you, that offereth a burnt offering or sacrifice,
9  And bringeth it not unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, to offer it unto the LORD; even that man shall be cut off from among his people.
10  And whatsoever man there be of the house of Israel, or of the strangers that sojourn among you, that eateth any manner of blood; I will even set my face against that soul that eateth blood, and will cut him off from among his people.
11  For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.
12  Therefore I said unto the children of Israel, No soul of you shall eat blood, neither shall any stranger that sojourneth among you eat blood.
 

A change of this law, is not independent of a change in kosher law.