Why the Great Trib May Be of Short Duration

[WilliamL]

2 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi William,

Still trying to place what you see. Hope you don`t mind some more questions. So......

1. Where do you see the Lord after Armageddon & to the end of the `times of the Gentiles?`

2. What happens at the `end of the times of the Gentiles?`

3. Where is the Body of Christ during the `time of the Gentiles?`

Marilyn.

Marilyn, You have not answered my question:

23 hours ago, WilliamL said:

How could the times of the Gentiles/nations end before their kings with their kingdoms, all being opposed to Christ, have been defeated?

Rev. 19: 11 Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war. ... 19 And I saw the beast, the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army. 20 Then the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who worked signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image. These two were cast alive into the lake of fire burning with brimstone. 21 And the rest were killed with the sword which proceeded from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse. And all the birds were filled with their flesh.

... 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

 

[Marilyn C]

Hi William,

 

Sorry I didn`t answer your question earlier as I thought it was rhetorical.  You asked -

 

`How could the times of the Gentiles/nations end before their kings with their kingdoms, all being opposed to Christ, have been defeated?`

 

I agree with you as you said –

 

 ` the times of the Gentiles end at Armageddon and Jerusalem = 7th Bowl and Rev. 19, when the Lord defeats the Beast's gathered kings of the earth.`

 

What I am not understanding of your position is what you think the Great tribulation consists of. Can you enlarge on that please?

 

Marilyn.

 

Edited May 13, 2016 by Marilyn C

[WilliamL]

9 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

 

What I am not understanding of your position is what you think the Great tribulation consists of.

I believe I've made that quite clear many times: it consists of Revelation 6's first five seals, which are the same as the events of Matthew 24:5-24. It is the final trial/testing of the Church prior to the Lord's return in the clouds to take up his elect; immediately after which, he will begin his period of Wrath/Judgment upon those who rebel against him.

Pre-Wrath, Post-Trib Summary

Some believers will be killed during the Trib: these are those saints of the 5th Seal "slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held." Rev. 6:9 = Matt. 24:9

Then comes the 6th Seal's heavenly and earthly cataclysms = Matt. 24:29, which come "immediately after the Tribulation."

Then comes Christ in the clouds to gather up his elect = the Rapture, while being seen by every eye (Rev. 1:7), which causes all the unbelievers to mourn, and to flee and hide in fear. Matt. 24:30-31; Rev. 1:7, 6:15-17; Is. 2:10-11, 19-21

At that point, after the Rapture of the Church and during the unbelievers' fear, "the great day of His [God's] Wrath is come" (Rev. 6:17). But "God did not appoint us [the elect] to [His] Wrath," 1 Thes. 5:9, so we've been taken outta here just before.

But at this same time, there is a third group, those of Israel who also see Jesus in the clouds, realize that he is their Messiah "whom they pierced," and therefore demonstrate their repentance and faith in him when they "mourn for him like one mourns for his only son." Zech. 12:10ff.

The very next event in Rev. 7:1-8, which continues on from the earthly perspective of Rev. 6, then tells us of the 144,000 Israelites who are sanctified/sealed in their foreheads "on the earth." Who are these but the repentant ones of Zech. 12:10? For them, it is too late to be raptured, because they were not among "those who were ready" when the Bridegroom came. Matt. 25:10

Then John's view is shifted to heaven, and he is shown 'those who came out of the Great Tribulation' (Rev. 7:14) -- being those just raptured -- "standing before the throne and the before the Lamb, clothed with white robes." Rev. 7:9 These fulfill the promise of Luke 21:36: "Watch, therefore, and pray always that you may be counted worthy to escape all these things [of the Great Tribulation] and to stand before the Son of Man."

Rev. 8-19 then tells us what will come upon all who were not ready: they must go through the time of God's Wrath, which includes both the Trumpets and Bowls, during which there will be believers on earth who will be martyred by the Beast. They will arise in the Rev. 20:4 resurrection, after Christ has descended to earth (Rev. 19) and defeated the Beast and kings of the earth.

[Marilyn C]

Hi William,

 

I asked - What I am not understanding of your position is what you think the Great tribulation consists of. Can you enlarge on that please?

You replied –  it consists of Revelation 6's first five seals, which are the same as the events of Matthew 24:5-24

Wars, famines, pestilences, & earthquakes, are the beginning then there will be `great tribulation,` such as has not been since ...no, nor ever.

Tribulation – Gk. `thlipsis` pressure, affliction, trouble, tribulation.

 

So do you think those events are such that –

`...had not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be.` (Matt. 24: 21)

 

And what about the bowls of wrath? Are those events such that –

`...had not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be.` (Matt. 24: 21)?

 

Some of the `bowls of wrath.`

- The sea became blood & every living creature in the sea died.

- The rivers & springs became blood.

- The world became darkness.

- Every island fled away & the mountains were not found.  (Rev. 16: 3, 4, 10, 21)

 

Marilyn.

 

            

[WilliamL]

Since this string is now doubling up on your End of the Gentile World System string, I'll quote out most recent posts from there:

7 hours ago, WilliamL said:

Right now the population of the world is the greatest it has ever been, or likely ever will be. And suddenly, civil order will collapse into chaos and anarchy and warlord-ism and gruesome GMO-plagues never before seen. The crying out of all the world's souls in their tribulation will be beyond anything "since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor shall ever be." Billions will die in short order, most through some kind of suffering

In contrast, by the time of the Bowls, the world will have been massively depopulated, and the total quantitative suffering of souls will be much less. Mass consciousness has a power of its own, and it is largely dependent upon its numbers.

 

2 minutes ago, WilliamL said:

22 minutes ago, Marilyn C said:

I don`t see suddenly civil order will collapse into chaos etc. So again we`ll have to wait & see.

Matt. 24:21 “For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. [This therefore means the period of the Trumpets and Bowls will not be as severe.] 22 “And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake those days will be shortened.

These will be "as the days of Noah" and "as the days of Lot," when there were mass deaths in short order. "Men's hearts will be failing them from fear because of those things which are coming on the earth, for the powers of the heavens shall be shaken." If not from chaos and famine and pestilence and Death and Hades unleashed [4th Seal], what else could it possibly be?

Whereas, when the Beast afterwards establishes his kingdom during the Trumpets, there will at least be a New World Order to provide a semblance of normalcy, so much so that people will feel no need to repent. Remember, the mantra of those who are preparing the way for this NWO is "order out of chaos." So yes, there will be chaos, which is to say the collapse of civil order.

And with that, I will go back to saying that I believe the evidence of Scripture is for a short Great Tribulation, probably of no more than 40 days; which is what this string is about. But that short period will nevertheless bring the most severe distress the world has ever known. When that time comes, God's people must be prepared to flee/escape. Luke 21:36; Matt. 24:16f.

[Marilyn C]

1 hour ago, WilliamL said:

Since this string is now doubling up on your End of the Gentile World System string, I'll quote out most recent posts from there:

 

And with that, I will go back to saying that I believe the evidence of Scripture is for a short Great Tribulation, probably of no more than 40 days; which is what this string is about. But that short period will nevertheless bring the most severe distress the world has ever known. When that time comes, God's people must be prepared to flee/escape. Luke 21:36; Matt. 24:16f.

Hi William,

Yes it has come together. However I still do not see the trib & great trib as you do. So I`ll leave it there for now, as we`ll end up going round in circles.

Thanks for the chat, Marilyn.

[WilliamL]

13 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Thanks for the chat, Marilyn.

Chats are for a chat room. Prophetic scriptures are life and death issues for both body and soul. They should not be treated as topics of casual conversation and anyone's opinion, as they too often are on this board.

James 3:1 My brethren, be not many teachers, knowing that we shall receive the greater condemnation.

[Marilyn C]

7 hours ago, WilliamL said:

Chats are for a chat room. Prophetic scriptures are life and death issues for both body and soul. They should not be treated as topics of casual conversation and anyone's opinion, as they too often are on this board.

James 3:1 My brethren, be not many teachers, knowing that we shall receive the greater condemnation.

Hi William,

Yes, point taken, thank you.

Marilyn.