Chaos - True or False?

[enoob57]

1 minute ago, Kan said:

It would have been easier if you had just said that.

That's true. Chaos as we know it was not in existence before sin.

At the same time anything which is too difficult for us to grasp can be called chaos. There are plenty of good things that God has created which we do not understand, they seem like chaos to us.

For example, if you look up at the stars, can you see any geometric pattern, like a prism, a square, triangle, a straight line through three stars etc. The answer is no. There does not seem to be any such order, and yet there are patterns among the stars. 3D patterns, spirals, branches, globular formations, etc These are not so obvious. But the very fact that there are no geometric shapes, shows that it is organized to be random, and this apparent randomness has an organization on another level.

God is able to create a substance which has the properties of defying all known perceptions and attempts to explain it, it is chaotic to us, but it can be a deliberate state designed to accomplish something else. 

I agree 100%

[Kan]

2 hours ago, Ezra said:

 

Yes the original Hebrew word would allow for *chaos* but that is not necessarily how it should be understood. "Without form and void" (KJV) is a valid translation of the Hebrew tohu va bohu.

Strong's Concordance

tohu: formlessness, confusion, unreality, emptiness

Original Word: תֹּ֫הוּ
Part of Speech: Noun Masculine
Transliteration: tohu
Phonetic Spelling: (to'-hoo)
Short Definition: waste

Strong's Concordance

bohu: emptiness

Original Word: בֹּ֫הוּ
Part of Speech: Noun Masculine
Transliteration: bohu
Phonetic Spelling: (bo'-hoo)
Short Definition: void

Yes, emptiness is a good one, proving that God is able to create from nothing.

What were the waters mentioned before the light shone, considering that the Bible says that nothing was made without the spoken Word, that God called things into existence by the power of His Word, or the breath of His mouth as some places say? 

So creation really begins when God uttered His first Words, which is day one, "Let there be light."

The "waters" over which the Spirit measured or moved upon, were already there, as part of the universe that existed before our world came into being.

[Kan]

9 hours ago, kwikphilly said:

Blessings Kan...

   I do like all the questions you are throwing out for consideration,these are things I've thought about many times,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,& I feel unintimidated & comfortable enough with you all  to just spill out my thoughts ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,we talk about many things,we are all passionate for Jesus & we FIRST believe the Word of God,no doubt,,,,,,so here goes,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

 God is NOT a God of Confusion & I agree only"lesser" beings can be confused,.,,,,,,,all beings are "lesser" than God

 

I tend to think(speculate without any REAL support) that yes,there was chaos "before" the beginning that we are aware of because that is where God begins to speak to us through His Word,,,,,,,,,,,,,,(Darkness was on the face of the deep)Gen 1:2    I do associate "darkness" with chaos

I believe it was you that commented earlier about the Tower of Babel? However,the reference to the "confusion" that God made amongst therm was excellent and He certainly had a very GOOD reason

I don't believe there could have been if God didn't make it,,,,,,,,in John 1:3  "ALL things were made through HIM,and WITHOUT HIM NOTHING was made that was MADE"

So if that is our conclusion (because that is what God's Word say's) then chaos/confusion must be for GOOD or made with good reason

                                                                                Just some thoughts,nothing definitive,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Love,Kwik

You only feel intimidated if you are bright, because your mind is saying - "There's a lot going on out there, I better get into gear." 

You have addressed each question with a succinct answer, and the texts are especially apt. 

What we may like to find out is what kind of condition is right for creation? Chaotic, dark and empty as it may seem to us.

Here it is, you said that darkness associates with chaos (how much furniture we find while walking around in the dark).

Here are some of the illustrations God has used for the condition prior to creation throughout the Bible. Formlessness, a void, nothing, empty, darkness, the deep, the waters, the shadow of death, the abyss, death and so on.

This is perfect for God to create, because that is what He does, calling things into existence which are not and declaring what will happen before it does, and so on. God loves a blank page to begin with. Not only that but a condition contrary to life. Why?

Because His power is multiplied in such situations, His power overrides darkness and capitalizes on it.

There is yet something special about the darkness and waters which were before creation, a condition which was made by God.

 

 

[Ezra]

1 hour ago, Kan said:

Yes, emptiness is a good one, proving that God is able to create from nothing.

Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the Word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.  (Heb 11:3).

[Ezra]

1 hour ago, Kan said:

There is yet something special about the darkness and waters which were before creation, a condition which was made by God.

Darkness signifies that the universe was waiting for the Word of God to begin creation and to also to send forth cosmic light. And water is the most essential and critical constituent of every living thing (plant or animal or human).  Nothing could exist on earth without water. The earth was a globe wrapped in water at the beginning of creation.

[missmuffet]

Be still in the chaos.

[HAZARD]

3 hours ago, Ezra said:

 

Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the Word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.  (Heb 11:3).

 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

God created the heavens first, sun moon stars, planets, then the earth, Earth means dry land.

אָ֫רֶץ erets: Earth, Dry Iand

 

And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. מָ֫יִ  mayim: waters,

 

Gen. 1:1, In the beginning, there was light and dry land.

 

Why would God cover the dry land with water and turn off the lights?

 

 

[Kan]

28 minutes ago, HAZARD said:

 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

God created the heavens first, sun moon stars, planets, then the earth, Earth means dry land.

אָ֫רֶץ erets: Earth, Dry Iand

 

And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. מָ֫יִ  mayim: waters,

 

Gen. 1:1, In the beginning, there was light and dry land.

 

Why would God cover the dry land with water and turn off the lights?

 

 

The earth did not appear until the third day. "Let the dry appear" the word land is supplied. "The dry" is opposite to the wet - "the waters." "The dry" signifies matter. It was on this day that God called "the dry" "Earth," with a capital, not before that.

If you say that the earth existed before because it is introduced at the start of the chapter, that's like using the introduction of a book as it main content. Verses 1 and 2 introduce the topic, that's all. According to what God said, the earth dd not appear until the third day.

There is no water either before there was matter, because water is matter. What we understand as matter, the tangible to us, was done on the third day. Form was introduced on that day, before that the earth existed in blueprint only, it was without form and void, but ready to appear in the very elements God uses to make matter.

Matter is made of invisible things, not of the visible. This is proven in genesis, where God speaks the light and divides the waters before any matter appears. The light that we see, was made on the day after, the fourth day.

So before matter appears, God had already prepared everything for it to exist. But at that stage it was without form and void.

[Ezra]

42 minutes ago, HAZARD said:

Gen. 1:1, In the beginning, there was light and dry land.

That came after the darkness was replaced with light and after the water was re-distributed. You have misquoted Gen 1:1 -- In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

[HAZARD]

36 minutes ago, Ezra said:

That came after the darkness was replaced with light and after the water was re-distributed. You have misquoted Gen 1:1 -- In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

"In the beginning God created the heaven (FIRST), and the earth (SECOND).

Heaven, sun moon stars and with them comes light. Then He created the earth., dry land. It was flooded by God after Lucifer convinced the society he ruled, plus one third of God's angels to rebel and they tried to invade Heaven. and toss God off His throne. I have given all the Scriptures regarding this in previous posts on other threads.

Blotting out the sun, and brining on floods are not acts of creation.

 

Here is further proof, God does not create chaos, ruin, or floods, God sends floods as a judgment.

In Scripture all cases of obscuring the sun and bringing consequent darkness, and all cases of floods are a result of Judgment and never of an acts of creation, unless it be Gen. 1:2; and we have no authority on which to believe that this is an exception.

 

Why could not Gen. 1:2 be a result of a curse, as is clear of all other floods and darkness on the Earth, as revealed in Gen. 6-8; Ex. 10:21-23; Isa. 5:30; 13:10; Jer. 4:23-26; Amos 5:18-20; Zeph. 1:15; Joel 2:30-3: 16; Matt. 8:12; 9:2; 16:10.

 

Answer, Only If We don't believe God's Word and believe our own thoughts and ideas, and what our adversary would like us to believe.