Why The Law?

[WordSword]

16 hours ago, Willa said:

I so agree that even our good works that are born of the Holy Spirit are not perfect because a measure of self and the old nature are continually present.  We may be unaware of the imperfection, but God is continually conforming us to the likeness of Christ and refining us of the dross.

It is the temptation of many to think it is Christ plus obedience to the law that saves us.  That is the trap I fell into after I was saved.  But salvation is a gift.  Faith is a gift.  Righteousness is a gift.  Forgiveness is a gift.  And these gifts aren not earned.  God had mercy on us because we are unable to help ourselves or to in any way meet His expectations of perfection.  Grace is unmerited favor.  Righteousness in conferred upon us through the faith He has given us in Christ's resurrection.  This way only God gets the glory for all He has done on our behalf.

Hi Wiila, and thanks for your perceptive reply!! God bless!

[WordSword]

I can under the reasons why people would think that the Eze/Jer prophecies would relate also to the Gentile believers, and I can understand why they relate solely to those of Israel blood posterity. I also realize the obscurity of Scriptures relating to this issue, but I believe God is gradually demonstrating His revelation in His Word concerning this very significant teaching.

I've been for a long time now attempting to biblically determine this issue without spiritualizing Israel to be the Church because I'm best convinced by Scripture confirmation, which for this issue supports mostly that the prophecies mentioned above are Jewish when taken as they read. I'll just share why my understanding is where it is by looking at a model that is apart from spiritualizing and that relates to the mandates of these prophecies.

"I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah." If this covenant included Gentiles there's no sensible reason why they are never mentioned concerning this final covenant with Israel. Plus the covenant Jesus revealed, which is in His "Blood" clearly includes every believer, as revealed in the Gospels. Christ's Blood covenant is not with Israel nor the Gentiles, but with the Father, which is another obscure teaching in Scripture but nonetheless true. If it were a covenant between Jesus and man I believe He would plainly state it just as the prior and future covenant is stated. Hence, this prophetic new covenant of Israel has yet to occur.

"Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers." Clear confirmation that their final covenant will be similar to the prior covenant, which include statues, ordinances and judgments, which are not related in the Blood covenant because it is not law-centric (Jer 31:33); and law (in the specific sense, i.e. ordinances etc,) and grace are separate systems (John 1:17).

Israel (those who believe in God, but not in Christ until they see Him when these prophecies will take place) will never cease to be a nation on this earth, nor in the new earth (Jer 31:36, 37). When these prophecies occur it will include at least most of the last surviving descendants of Israel.

Edited May 19, 2016 by Word-Sword

[kwikphilly]

Blessings Word_Sword,,,,

    You're spot on Brother,,,,,,that's right,for the Believer it is "was guilty",,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Halleluyah!Thank you Jesus!          Love,Kwik

[Guest]

16 hours ago, Word-Sword said:

Especially concerning the law of God to all (Gen 3:16, 17), because the law of Moses was only to Israel. Thanks for your input. 

Especially those apart from Christ in the law of Moses.

John came baptizing for repentance to Israel because the wrath of God prophesied in the law was to them first. This wrath was at hand.

But here is what is prophesied to the nations when huis wrath is finished upon Israel

De 30:7  And the LORD thy God will put all these curses upon thine enemies, and on them that hate thee, which persecuted thee.
The law of Moses may have only been to Isreal, but it also spoke of and prophesied concerning punishment of nations

[WordSword]

Concerning the Jer/Eze prophecies, they unavoidably refer solely to Patriarchal descendants and their offspring, e.g. Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. I believe the intention of God's persistence with these, esp. concerning Israel is to confirm the permanency of His words to the world through His union with Abraham and the lineage of his blood posterity.

 

It's my conception that God's confirmation of an unbreakable union with believers is the most important issue concerning His Word to us and our conscientious eternal security in Him, and this is well demonstrated in His union with His people whom He first used to reach the world.

 

Of course among those whom He has called within the nation of the last Patriarch (Israel), He chose only those whom He knew would be believers to be the soul representation of His people until Christ!

[WordSword]

Faith "establishes" the Law (Rom 3:31) by showing works (of the Law) are not needed for justification, but "works" (not of the Law but in general) are for manifesting justification. Faith and the Law are separate entities, for "The law is not of faith," but is only of "doing" (Gal 3:12); and justification (to render righteousness - Rom 3:26; 8:33) is never effected by works, for works can only justify (to manifest righteousness - Jam 2:24) faith.

Notice the two different usages in the words "justification" or "justify." The Greek sense for the first is to render or effect righteousness, as in Christianity, to "impute" righteousness. The latter sense is to manifest ("bear," not produce - John 15:8) righteousness, not effect it.

Hence the closeness and confusion in the usages between these two passages:

Romans 3:28: "Therefore we conclude that a man is justified (render) by faith without the deeds of the law

James 2:24: "Ye see then how that by works a man is justified (manifest) and not by faith only."

Greek proof-usages: https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/Lexicon/Lexicon.cfm?strongs=G1344&t=KJV

 

"Yet we know that a person is made right with God by faith in Jesus Christ, not by obeying the law. And we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we might be made right with God because of our faith in Christ, not because we have obeyed the law. For no one will ever be made right with God by obeying the law” (Gal 2:15 NLT).

[Guest]

On ‎5‎/‎31‎/‎2016 at 7:58 PM, Word-Sword said:

Concerning the Jer/Eze prophecies, they unavoidably refer solely to Patriarchal descendants and their offspring, e.g. Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. I believe the intention of God's persistence with these, esp. concerning Israel is to confirm the permanency of His words to the world through His union with Abraham and the lineage of his blood posterity.

 

 

 

It's my conception that God's confirmation of an unbreakable union with believers is the most important issue concerning His Word to us and our conscientious eternal security in Him, and this is well demonstrated in His union with His people whom He first used to reach the world.

 

 

 

Of course among those whom He has called within the nation of the last Patriarch (Israel), He chose only those whom He knew would be believers to be the soul representation of His people until Christ!

 

I think it is the giving of his only begotten son for us, which is most confirmation of an unbreakable union with us...............that nothing can separate us from his love in Christ Jesus.

[WordSword]

7 hours ago, Joline said:

I think it is the giving of his only begotten son for us, which is most confirmation of an unbreakable union with us...............that nothing can separate us from his love in Christ Jesus.

Hi Sis - Amen, there can be no greater exhibition of God keeping His promises than putting His Son, our Lord Jesus, through what He desired to endure for us. Christ's expiation for those whom the Father knew would believe is the "Everlasting Covenant" from which all covenants derive. 

This Covenant between Them involved the Father's forgiveness through His Son's suffering, dying, resurrection and ascension. "Christ, through it, was brought again from the dead, because by it He fulfilled His covenant engagements, satisfied divine justice, and abolished sin, yea, death itself." JG

“Now may the God of peace—who brought up from the dead our Lord Jesus, the great Shepherd of the sheep and ratified an eternal covenant with His blood . . . equip you with all you need for doing His will” (Heb 13:20, 21 NLT).

“And He took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it; For this is My blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins” (Mat 26:27, 28).

 

[Guest]

On ‎6‎/‎4‎/‎2016 at 11:50 AM, Word-Sword said:

Faith "establishes" the Law (Rom 3:31) by showing works (of the Law) are not needed for justification, but "works" (not of the Law but in general) are for manifesting justification. Faith and the Law are separate entities, for "The law is not of faith," but is only of "doing" (Gal 3:12); and justification (to render righteousness - Rom 3:26; 8:33) is never effected by works, for works can only justify (to manifest righteousness - Jam 2:24) faith.

 

Notice the two different usages in the words "justification" or "justify." The Greek sense for the first is to render or effect righteousness, as in Christianity, to "impute" righteousness. The latter sense is to manifest ("bear," not produce - John 15:8) righteousness, not effect it.

 

Hence the closeness and confusion in the usages between these two passages:

 

Romans 3:28: "Therefore we conclude that a man is justified (render) by faith without the deeds of the law

 

James 2:24: "Ye see then how that by works a man is justified (manifest) and not by faith only."

 

Greek proof-usages: https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/Lexicon/Lexicon.cfm?strongs=G1344&t=KJV

 

 

 

"Yet we know that a person is made right with God by faith in Jesus Christ, not by obeying the law. And we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we might be made right with God because of our faith in Christ, not because we have obeyed the law. For no one will ever be made right with God by obeying the law” (Gal 2:15 NLT).

 

Amen Word- sword.

It is all about GOD'S righteousness not ours.

He is the Faithful one.

The law is not of faith, but of works, right here............

De 7:12  Wherefore it shall come to pass, if ye hearken to these judgments, and keep, and do them, that the LORD thy God shall keep unto thee the covenant and the mercy which he sware unto thy fathers:

It is not by the righteousness which is by the law of Moses.

De 6:25  And it shall be our righteousness, if we observe to do all these commandments before the LORD our God, as he hath commanded us.
 

but rather it is by faith in God's righteousness

De 9:4  Speak not thou in thine heart, after that the LORD thy God hath cast them out from before thee, saying, For my righteousness the LORD hath brought me in to possess this land: but for the wickedness of these nations the LORD doth drive them out from before thee.
De 9:5  Not for thy righteousness, or for the uprightness of thine heart, dost thou go to possess their land: but for the wickedness of these nations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee, and that he may perform the word which the LORD sware unto thy fathers, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.
De 9:6  Understand therefore, that the LORD thy God giveth thee not this good land to possess it for thy righteousness; for thou art a stiffnecked people.
De 24:13  In

[WordSword]

On 5/18/2016 at 8:32 PM, Murphy said:

 (also we see that sacrifices return)

Jeremiah 33

17 “For thus says the Lord: David shall never lack a man to sit on the throne of the house of Israel, 18 and the Levitical priests shall never lack a man in my presence to offer burnt offerings, to burn grain offerings, and to make sacrifices forever.”

Hi Murphy - The prophecy above is in reference to the Priesthood of Christ which will ever be, and the offerings are not literal but spiritual sacrifices of the priests and kings of Christ--the Saints. All bible commentators agree on this, plus if it were literally referring to these, they would go more into the language of it than just mentioning offerings and sacrifices but exactly what must be done and in the way to do it. This I believe concurs with your mentioning the change of priesthoods to Christ's eternal Priesthood.

View 33:17, 18 in these commentators: Gill   http://www.christianity.com/bible/commentary.php?com=gill&b=24&c=33

Jamison, Faussett and Brown:  http://www.christianity.com/bible/commentary.php?com=jfb&b=24&c=33

 

Yes, Christ is also in the lineage of Levite: http://www.truthfromgod.com/studies/jesus_levite_priest.html