Water was not created

[Guest Thallasa]

5 hours ago, HAZARD said:

 

.

As usual, empty words, so easy, with no Scriptural support and wrong again.

Starting in 2 Peter 3:5,

1. For this they willingly are ignorant, that by the word of God the heavens were created of old, (V. 5; Ps. 68:33; 93:2; 102:25; Mic. 5:2).

2. That the earth was established in and out of water (V. 5; Ps. 24:2;136:6).

3. That the world "that then was," refers to the pre-Adamite world of social system which was destroyed by a great universal flood before Adam (V. 6; Gen. 1:2; Ps. 104:5-9; Jer. 4:23-26; Isa. 14;12-14; Ez. 28:11-17).

4. That the heavens and the earth "which are now" were restored from chaos and judgment about 6,000 years ago in Adams day 9V. 7: Gen 1:3-2-25).

5. That the heavens and the earth entered their second sinful career through Adam and are now reserved for a second universal renovation by fire at the time of the great white throne judgment at the end of the Millennium (V. 7:10-12; 12:25-28; Rev. 20"7-15).

6.  That with God a thousand years is like a day and a day is like a thousand years. God inhabits eternity and is not subject to eternity to get His work done before death as is the case with us humans (V. 8-9; Isa. 57:15; Eph. 3:11).

The pre-Adamites (3:6),

1. Two social systems are mentioned here by Peter; one was before the one which is now, and the other, after the one that then was (V. 6-7).

2. The former social system perished by water and the present one will perish by fire (V. 6-7).

3. The former social system was created "In the beginning" and was destroyed by the flood of Gen. 1"1-2. The present social system was created in 6 days since the flood of gen. 1:2 (Gen. 1:3-2:25).

4. The flood of Noah did not destroy all social system on earth between Adam and Noah, for some were preserved in the Ark to continue that social system after the flood; but the social system that then was before the present social system utterly perished. Not one man, bird, or animal was left alive (V. 6; Gen. 1:2; Jer. 4:23-26).

5. No reference in Scripture can be found of a change in the heavens and the earth in Noahs day as in Adams day (Gen. 1:3-2:25). This proves that" the world that then was," had to be before Adam's day because the heavens and the earth "which are now," came into existence at that time and not at the time of Noah.

6. There was no man, bird, vegetation, or any other life left after the flood of V. 6; Gen. 1:2. They were made again in the six days (Gen. 2:4-9). That they ad been here before Adam is clear from;

Jer. 4:23-26. 

23, I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.
    24, I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.
    25, I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.
    26, I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by his fierce anger.

7. There have been and will be three social systems on earth.

(1) The Pre-Adamite world, the one, "that then was," before the present heavens and the earth (V. 6).

(2) The Adamite sinful social system, from Adam to the new heavens and the new earth (V. 7).

(3) The Adamite sinless social system in the new earth (V. 13: Rev. 21:1-22; 5; Isa. 66:22-24).

8. Peter taught two distinct ends of two sinful careers on earth.

(1) The world "that then was. The pre-Adamite social system had a sinful career or it would not have perished in the flood of V. 6; Gen. 1:2; Jer. 4:23-26; Isa. 14:12-14; Ez. 28:11-17; Matt. 13:35.

(2) The present Adamite sinful social system making the present sinful career of the earth. It will come to an end during the Millennium (V. 7, 10-13; 1 Cor. 15:24-28; Rev. 20:7-10).

9. If V 6 pictured Noahs flood it would be clear, for Peter always mentions Noah of eight persons if he refers to this flood (1 Pet. 3;20; 2 Pet. 2:5). Others also make it clear when they refer to Noahs flood (Isa. 54:9; Matt. 24:37-38; Luke 17:26-27; Heb. 11:7).

10. There is no doubt of a universal flood before Adam (V. 6; gen. 1:2; Ps. 104:5-9). Since God never sends a flood unless judgment is necessary, there must have been a social system to be banished before Adam.

 

 

 

[Mateo]

2 hours ago, LuftWaffle said:

In the Ancient Near East water and specifically oceans symbolised chaos and disorder. It is likely then that the water being referred to in Genesis 1 isn't H2O but a symbolic reference to chaos.

I feel like as Christians we are quick to say something is symbolic or not symbolic when it's convenient for us

[Mateo]

7 hours ago, HAZARD said:

 

.

As usual, empty words, so easy, with no Scriptural support and wrong again.

Starting in 2 Peter 3:5,

1. For this they willingly are ignorant, that by the word of God the heavens were created of old, (V. 5; Ps. 68:33; 93:2; 102:25; Mic. 5:2).

2. That the earth was established in and out of water (V. 5; Ps. 24:2;136:6).

3. That the world "that then was," refers to the pre-Adamite world of social system which was destroyed by a great universal flood before Adam (V. 6; Gen. 1:2; Ps. 104:5-9; Jer. 4:23-26; Isa. 14;12-14; Ez. 28:11-17).

4. That the heavens and the earth "which are now" were restored from chaos and judgment about 6,000 years ago in Adams day 9V. 7: Gen 1:3-2-25).

5. That the heavens and the earth entered their second sinful career through Adam and are now reserved for a second universal renovation by fire at the time of the great white throne judgment at the end of the Millennium (V. 7:10-12; 12:25-28; Rev. 20"7-15).

6.  That with God a thousand years is like a day and a day is like a thousand years. God inhabits eternity and is not subject to eternity to get His work done before death as is the case with us humans (V. 8-9; Isa. 57:15; Eph. 3:11).

The pre-Adamites (3:6),

1. Two social systems are mentioned here by Peter; one was before the one which is now, and the other, after the one that then was (V. 6-7).

2. The former social system perished by water and the present one will perish by fire (V. 6-7).

3. The former social system was created "In the beginning" and was destroyed by the flood of Gen. 1"1-2. The present social system was created in 6 days since the flood of gen. 1:2 (Gen. 1:3-2:25).

4. The flood of Noah did not destroy all social system on earth between Adam and Noah, for some were preserved in the Ark to continue that social system after the flood; but the social system that then was before the present social system utterly perished. Not one man, bird, or animal was left alive (V. 6; Gen. 1:2; Jer. 4:23-26).

5. No reference in Scripture can be found of a change in the heavens and the earth in Noahs day as in Adams day (Gen. 1:3-2:25). This proves that" the world that then was," had to be before Adam's day because the heavens and the earth "which are now," came into existence at that time and not at the time of Noah.

6. There was no man, bird, vegetation, or any other life left after the flood of V. 6; Gen. 1:2. They were made again in the six days (Gen. 2:4-9). That they ad been here before Adam is clear from;

Jer. 4:23-26. 

23, I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.
    24, I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.
    25, I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.
    26, I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by his fierce anger.

7. There have been and will be three social systems on earth.

(1) The Pre-Adamite world, the one, "that then was," before the present heavens and the earth (V. 6).

(2) The Adamite sinful social system, from Adam to the new heavens and the new earth (V. 7).

(3) The Adamite sinless social system in the new earth (V. 13: Rev. 21:1-22; 5; Isa. 66:22-24).

8. Peter taught two distinct ends of two sinful careers on earth.

(1) The world "that then was. The pre-Adamite social system had a sinful career or it would not have perished in the flood of V. 6; Gen. 1:2; Jer. 4:23-26; Isa. 14:12-14; Ez. 28:11-17; Matt. 13:35.

(2) The present Adamite sinful social system making the present sinful career of the earth. It will come to an end during the Millennium (V. 7, 10-13; 1 Cor. 15:24-28; Rev. 20:7-10).

9. If V 6 pictured Noahs flood it would be clear, for Peter always mentions Noah of eight persons if he refers to this flood (1 Pet. 3;20; 2 Pet. 2:5). Others also make it clear when they refer to Noahs flood (Isa. 54:9; Matt. 24:37-38; Luke 17:26-27; Heb. 11:7).

10. There is no doubt of a universal flood before Adam (V. 6; gen. 1:2; Ps. 104:5-9). Since God never sends a flood unless judgment is necessary, there must have been a social system to be banished before Adam.

 

 

Interesting.

[gdemoss]

Pure speculation on my part but Lucifer means light bearer and I do remember something happening in the beginning where God said let there be light.  Possible creation of Lucifer.

[Mateo]

2 minutes ago, gdemoss said:

Pure speculation on my part but Lucifer means light bearer and I do remember something happening in the beginning where God said let there be light.  Possible creation of Lucifer.

Don't think so. The earth's surface was possibly covered by dark clouds due to volcanic activity. When God said let there be light it is possible the clouds parted.

[gdemoss]

4 minutes ago, Mateo said:

Don't think so. The earth's surface was possibly covered by dark clouds due to volcanic activity. When God said let there be light it is possible the clouds parted.

Speculative imagination is entertaining but truly unfruitful for us.  One cannot truly say one way or the other.  God knows

There are many possibilities but one truth and God has not revealed that truth.

God did reveal that everything was created in six days that exist which would include water.  Everything was spoken into creation.  It would appear that water was one of the very first things created due to its position in the scriptures.

Some believe in the gap theory but that too is speculative at best.  Our imaginations are only limited by our minds ability to make logical assumptions but the bible warns me not to walk in the vanity of my own mind nor seek to intrude into things not given unto me to know.  Such behavior is rooted in the pride of life.

[Mateo]

2 minutes ago, gdemoss said:

Speculative imagination is entertaining but truly unfruitful for us.  One cannot truly say one way or the other.  God knows

There are many possibilities but one truth and God has not revealed that truth.

God did reveal that everything was created in six days that exist which would include water.  Everything was spoken into creation.  It would appear that water was one of the very first things created due to its position in the scriptures.

Some believe in the gap theory but that too is speculative at best.  Our imaginations are only limited by our minds ability to make logical assumptions but the bible warns me not to walk in the vanity of my own mind nor seek to intrude into things not given unto me to know.  Such behavior is rooted in the pride of life.

I think the "gap theory" holds water (pun intended). I think as we look into the language. It could be possible.

[John1:18]

It clearly states GOD hovered over the face of the water and darkness was upon the deep . 
If God our God of TRUTH  created the water MOSES would have written: and God said let there be water ! And God saw the water and it was good .... But it's written the spirit of GOD hovered over water ...
And then it's written and GOD SAID let the waters be gathered to one place that dry land appear ... 
Saint Peter announces 2peter3:5 the world refuses to believe God made all things from by His word from water ...
So what camp are you in ?
The truth is written in black and white for all to see for 1000's of years perhaps your not as born again as you think you are ? 
Water first just like water baptism 1st 
Fire 2nd just like fire baptism 2nd 
 Peace in Christ 

[Mateo]

17 minutes ago, John1:18 said:

It clearly states GOD hovered over the face of the water and darkness was upon the deep . 
If God our God of TRUTH  created the water MOSES would have written: and God said let there be water ! And God saw the water and it was good .... But it's written the spirit of GOD hovered over water ...
And then it's written and GOD SAID let the waters be gathered to one place that dry land appear ... 
Saint Peter announces 2peter3:5 the world refuses to believe God made all things from by His word from water ...
So what camp are you in ?
The truth is written in black and white for all to see for 1000's of years perhaps your not as born again as you think you are ? 
Water first just like water baptism 1st 
Fire 2nd just like fire baptism 2nd 
 Peace in Christ 

It is arrogant to think creation begans with us. 

I don't think you can ever say "it's there in black and white" when it comes to the Bible. That is very western thinking.

[CATerri]

50 minutes ago, John1:18 said:

perhaps your not as born again as you think you are ? 
 

Are these types of comments really necessary?