Why don't Jews accept Jesus as the Messiah & Son of God?

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, LeavesSeeds said:

Your seem to have missed or to be denying most of this thread now, and most of history.   No worries. 

How about TODAY ---

Do you desire that Jews and gentiles BE SAVED ?  Or that they stay condemned for their sin ?

I would that they all be saved.   As many as God shall call and chose for Himself, Redeeming them by Jesus Blood and Sanctifying them for His OWN PURPOSE.

 

No I have not denied this thread. You want to blame everyone else, and blame it on  others right along with them?

You want to agree with them they need not repent? It was not God's judgement? That is what you are doing here. You all are encouraging them in the delusion they are keeping the law, upholding the lie that oral law is law. It is not God's punishment at all.

God hands them over the temple mount in 1967....What do the rabbins do. Give control of it over to others..................They do not need an atonement. Oral law has found another method 2000 years ago. How has that worked out for them?

So lets make no mistake here between me and you and who is doing what in this thread.

[LeavesSeeds]

You totally ignored the question in line with the TOPIC of YOUR THREAD: What reason did ANY JEW or GENTILE EVER GIVE TO YOU , to not turn to JESUS ? Ever ? (IN PERSON).

1 minute ago, Ogner said:

Does your religion allow to read the Gospel?

Why ? Does your religion reject it ?

[LeavesSeeds]

Who are you talking to ?   

If a Jew rejects Jesus because of what someone else does , NOT EVEN THAT JEW can blame that person.

They are still held accountable by the JUDGE.

CLAIM (0) So, where did ANYONE say ANYONE need not repent ?  I thought it was OBVIOUS EVERYONE needs to repent.

(1) So,  where or why do you think ANYONE BLAMED ANYONE in this thread ? (quote it if you can - maybe I missed it IF it's there)....

??? Did JESUS say we(or ANYONE) could blame those who deceive us , instead of repenting, so on judgment day we are not held responsible ??

(2) So also,  DID ANYONE encourage ANYONE that they are keeping the law ? (quote it if you can - again I think you must have someone else in mind)

(3) So also,  DID ANYONE say that ANYONE can escape GOD's PUNISHMENT ? (quote it if you can )

 

Take your time backing up your CLAIMS if you can,  but don't make more CLAIMS without substance please- it just confuses the thread.

You made several CLAIMS noted , AS IF from this thread.......  I think they are all made up , but go ahead and quote the posts you got them from if you can.

1 minute ago, Joline said:

No I have not denied this thread. CLAIM (1) You want to blame everyone else, and blame it on  others right along with them?

(CLAIM(0): ) You want to agree with them they need not repent? It was not God's judgement? That is what you are doing here. You all are encouraging them in the delusion  CLAIM(2) they are keeping the law, upholding the lie that oral law is law.  CLAIM(3)It is not God's punishment at all.

God hands them over the temple mount in 1967....What do the rabbins do. Give control of it over to others..................

So lets make no mistake here between me and you and who is doing what in this thread.

 

[Retrobyter]

7 hours ago, Ogner said:

The Greek word "pisteuein" means "believer"

verbatim: "ὁ πιστεύων (believer) εἰς (in) αὐτὸν (Him) οὐ (not) κρίνεται· (judge)"

Word "Trust" means "καταπιστεύω" For example, "πάντες απεσφάγησαν οι καταπιστεύσαντες" [verbatim: "everyone who trusted him were killed"]( Plutarch (40-120 BC.)

For comparison: Galatians 3:6, "Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness."

Word "Believe" in Greek means "επίστευσεν". 

We must believe (επίστευσεν) Jesus like Abraham believed (επίστευσεν) God. 

Abraham did not learn that he can trust (καταπιστεύσαντες) God. But Abraham believed (επίστευσεν) God

Hebrews 11: 1. "Now faith is assurance of things hoped for, a conviction of things not seen."

John3:36, "He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him."

Mark 16:16 "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned."

1 John 5:10 "He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son."

Shabbat shalom, Ogner.

Sorry, bro', but that's not true. What I said is right. That's the way it is: "Pisteuein" (the infinitive form of "pisteuoo") means "to trust" and is often rendered "to believe." But, believing is NOT ENOUGH! It doesn't explain the many uses of the word in their contexts! "Katapisteuoo," the form that employs "pisteuoo" the form of the word that means "I trust" and adds "kata" meaning "down" for intensity, would mean the same only more intense. However, that word is not found in the Bible.

Avraham TRUSTED God to do for him what He promised He would do, and that TRUST is what God tallied to his account as "righteousness."

We must TRUST God as Avraham did, yes; we must TRUST God to do for us what we could not do for ourselves; He gave us life eternal through the death of His Son as the sacrifice of the perfect Lamb of God, haKeves Elohiym, trading places with us. God, in the form of His Son, became our "sin" for us, so that we could become His Son's "righteousness," God's "righteousness," in spite of our sin. (2 Cor. 5:21)

Also, that's a BAD rendering of Hebrews 11:1. Almost every other English version misses the point on this verse! One really needs to get back to the Greek or a version, like the AV or the KJV, that tried to do a more word-for-word translation:

Hebrews 11:1
1 Now faith is the substance (Greek: hupostasis = a "setting under"; a FOUNDATION) of things hoped for, the evidence (Greek: elegchos = "proof"; REAL EVIDENCE as would stand up in a court of law) of things not seen.
KJV

Faith is NOT "the things hoped for" nor is it "the things not seen!" It's the "SUBSTANCE" or CONCRETE FOUNDATION! The "EVIDENCE" or real PROOF! And, what is that foundation, that proof? The BIBLE ITSELF and the RECORDED HISTORY found in the Bible! It's not meant to be taken figuratively; it's talking about the LITERAL BOOK from which we've made copies and the REAL LIFE CHOICES that these patriarchs of the Jewish people made! The rest of the chapter confirms this!

It's much more than just "believing." You can look at a chair and say, "I believe that chair can hold me." But, it's not until you SIT ON THE CHAIR that you are truly exercising faith! You have to TRUST the chair to hold you! THAT'S when you demonstrate faith in the chair.

[Ogner]

17 minutes ago, LeavesSeeds said:

So, are you saying that the sins of the Jews before them, justifies the sins of the gentiles against the Jews ?

 

God does not practice collective responsibility.

No child is unstained by the deeds of his father. Therefore, how can we say about collective responsibility?

[Retrobyter]

2 minutes ago, Ogner said:

God does not practice collective responsibility.

No child is unstained by the deeds of his father. Therefore, how can we say about collective responsibility?

Shabbat shalom, Ogner.

Sure He does! He punishes whole NATIONS for the sins their ancestors have committed against Israel!

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, LeavesSeeds said:

Who are you talking to ?   

If a Jew rejects Jesus because of what someone else does , NOT EVEN THAT JEW can blame that person.

They are still held accountable by the JUDGE.

CLAIM (0) So, where did ANYONE say ANYONE need not repent ?  I thought it was OBVIOUS EVERYONE needs to repent.

(1) So,  where or why do you think ANYONE BLAMED ANYONE in this thread ? (quote it if you can - maybe I missed it IF it's there)....

??? Did JESUS say we(or ANYONE) could blame those who deceive us , instead of repenting, so on judgment day we are not held responsible ??

(2) So also,  DID ANYONE encourage ANYONE that they are keeping the law ? (quote it if you can - again I think you must have someone else in mind)

(3) So also,  DID ANYONE say that ANYONE can escape GOD's PUNISHMENT ? (quote it if you can )

 

Take your time backing up your CLAIMS if you can,  but don't make more CLAIMS without substance please- it just confuses the thread.

You made several CLAIMS noted , AS IF from this thread.......  I think they are all made up , but go ahead and quote the posts you got them from if you can.

 

I am talking to you!

Why should Jew's repent, it's everyone else's sin that caused their problems?

They are keeping ORAL LAW.

And the transfer of rituals etc. They have prayers to be holy these replace sacrifices etc.

This isn't even about their consent in the Gospel for me. It is about them recognizing their sin. Then maybe they could see that Pharisaic notions will never be in line with repentance. Because they usurped the authority of the priesthood.

[Esther4:14]

5 hours ago, Ogner said:

Suppose, you preach the Gospel to a jew.
And he tells you, "I do not accept Jesus because Hitler was a Christian."
Can you imagine that?

 

Yes, I can imagine that.  However, Hitler was clearly not a Christian.  There is no feasible way that there can be any long term discussion on Hitler in connection with Christianity.  So, it inevitably becomes an excuse to avoid really investigating the Gospels for what it really means to be a Christian.  I will never forget how amazed I was to read what Jesus said myself and how much I found I agreed with everything He said.  I was amazed that He spoke with such authority the same way they seemed to be when He was here preaching the message of salvation (Matthew 7:29).  It is not hard to do this, or maybe it is...(Matthew 7:14).

[LeavesSeeds]

Good Point.  (Except the TITLE / OP is COLLECTIVE)

So, to improve - BE SPECIFIC.  What did ANY JEW tell you in person why they rejected (or accepted) JESUS MESSIAH ?

7 minutes ago, Ogner said:

God does not practice collective responsibility.

No child is unstained by the deeds of his father. Therefore, how can we say about collective responsibility?

 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Qnts2 said:

While I have not read anything by Wurmbrand, that is the general experience of almost every Jewish person who comes to believe on Jesus.

When I accepted Jesus, it was because God drew me to read the NT. Once I was convinced and believed Jesus was the Messiah and Savior, I did not want to go to any church because history and personal experience had taught me that many Gentiles hated the Jewish people. The more religious, the more likely the Gentiles hated Jewish people.

Jewish people know little to nothing about Christianity other then Christians have called Jewish people Christ-killers and abused or killed Jewish people. Jewish people know nothing about denominations as it is not a Jewish concept. So to a Jewish person, Christianity is Christianity with no divisions. Jewish people do not read the NT, but based on over 1000 years of persecution done in Jesus name, it is assumed that the 'Gentile bible'/NT must be antisemitic or why would Christianity of so many different countries over hundreds of years, persecuted Jewish people in Jesus name?  

Shiloh is correct. 

why do you assume to speak for all Jews here? there are plenty of Jew's which are Catholic, Evangelical.

Are you denying the fact that most Jewish Christians are not or have not been, and or remain in the Church?

Most Messianic congregations have Gentiles in the majority.

I would imagine that is why you all are here. Gentilesd have grown your movement not Jew's

For pity sake this movement only began in the 70's. By far most Jews entered in by the Church. Even those Jew's which began this movement themselves were evangelized through the church