Why don't Jews accept Jesus as the Messiah & Son of God?

[FresnoJoe]

21 hours ago, Qnts2 said:

I agree. I know of many Jewish people who view much of Christianity as anti-semitic because Nazi's were Christian and called the Jews Christ-killers and promoted Luther's work 'The Jews and their lies' which was anti-semitic. It is simple logic to reject a religion which is believed to be anti-semitic. Why would a Jewish person want anything to do with a religion which is anti-semitic? 

When I accepted Jesus as Messiah, I had many Jewish people very angry as they thought I had betrayed the Jewish people by joining in with anti-semites. I was told I was worse then Hitler, because I was Jewish and I was believed to have joined with anti-semites. 

I know Jewish believers who believed in Jesus, despite Christianity. It is afterward that they discovered that Christianity has a lot of variation.

Amen~!

But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal. Romans 11:4

Jews Who Believe in Jesus - The importance of eyewitness testimony in a court of law is significant. http://www.jewishvoice.org/who-is-yeshua/jews-who-believe/

How beautiful upon the mountains are the feet of him that bringeth good tidings, that publisheth peace; that bringeth good tidings of good, that publisheth salvation; that saith unto Zion, Thy God reigneth! Isaiah 52:7

Reasons to Believe - Is Yeshua the Messiah? Can you trust what He said in the Scriptures? Can you truly find salvation if you believe in Him?Let’s explore a few reasons to believe in Him by looking at the prophecies, historical facts, and Biblical evidence—beginning with Prophecies . . . http://www.jewishvoice.org/who-is-yeshua/reasons-to-believe/

[Guest]

On ‎6‎/‎4‎/‎2016 at 1:49 PM, shiloh357 said:

Jews are not calling themselves Pharisees,  there no Pharisee sects in existence so I think they got the memo.

Here Shiloh,

Some excerpts from Messianic leadership

Excerpts from the messianic Jewish Rabbinical council, concerning halakhic Authority

.

Matthew 23:2–3 alludes to an interpretation of Deuteronomy 17 resembling that which appears in the rabbinic literature of a later era, and affirms that the “Scribes (i.e., Torah Teachers) and Pharisees” are in some sense the proper heirs of Moses. While the book of Matthew as a whole – and Matthew 23 in particular – levels fierce criticism at the conduct of many of these “Scribes and Pharisees,” its
terminology and halakhic orientation have much in common with what we know of the early rabbinic movement. It is likely that the book’s author knew segments of the early rabbinic movement, embraced and promoted many of their core tenets and halakhic perspectives, yet found some of their primary leaders lacking in character, spiritual discernment, and good judgment – as reflected especially in their response to Yeshua and their treatment of his disciples. In light of the high tensions of the period, the transmission of this qualified endorsement of the “Scribes and Pharisees” in Matthew 23:2–3 – with its allusion to Deuteronomy 17 – is remarkable.

While halakhic authority is vested in particular leaders and groups of leaders,  it is fundamentally bestowed by Hashem on the people as a whole (Deuteronomy 16:18; 17:14–15; Esther 9:23, 26–28) – “catholic (i.e., universal) Israel,” as it was called by Solomon Schechter.

Halakhic Authority, the Bilateral Ekklesia, and the Wounded Two-Fold Tradition

Though the Sages of the rabbinic tradition are legitimate bearers of halakhic authority, they are not the only leaders with such competence. As the embodiment of heavenly Wisdom and the living Torah, Yeshua himself is the ultimate earthly source of halakhic authority. While he acknowledged the authority of some leaders in the wider Jewish community, he also formed his own messianic subcommunity and bestowed upon its designated leaders – the Apostles – the authority to bind and loose (Matthew 16:16–19; 18:18). In doing so, Yeshua was authorizing the Apostles to regulate the life of the messianic community according to their Master’s interpretation of the Torah and according to the guidance of his Spirit who writes the Torah on the hearts of his disciples (Matthew 28:18–20;
John 14:26; Jeremiah 31:33; 2 Corinthians 3:2–3). Following their Master, the Apostles respected the authority of the wider Jewish community and its leaders for the governance of public Jewish life (Acts 23:4-5) but also asserted their freedom to diverge from its rulings when they were clearly incompatible with the commandments of the risen Messiah (Acts 4:18–20; 5:27–32).

The halakhic authority given to the Apostles by Yeshua had a bilateral character, in conformity to the bilateral character of the ekklesia in which it was exercised. (The ekklesia of Yeshua is inherently bilateral in that it is constituted by two distinct yet united corporate spheres – one which is primarily made up of Jews and the other which is primarily made up of Gentiles.) The halakhah appropriate to the Jewish ekklesia differed from the halakhah appropriate to the multinational ekklesia (Acts 15:19–21; Acts 21:17–26; 1 Corinthians 7:17–19), and it appears as though each of the Apostles had a mandate to function primarily in one or the other sphere (Galatians 2:7–10).

 

You may wish to read this in it's entirety. So similar to Mark Kinzers book on Jewish sacraments of Catholic Judaism. Even the command to bind and lose is Catholic like.......Also Catholic means more than organizations to merely evangelize Jew's. As it is BI LATERAL meaning Gentiles are part of it.

 

[Guest]

14 minutes ago, Joline said:

Here Shiloh,

Some excerpts from Messianic leadership

Excerpts from the messianic Jewish Rabbinical council, concerning halakhic Authority

.

Matthew 23:2–3 alludes to an interpretation of Deuteronomy 17 resembling that which appears in the rabbinic literature of a later era, and affirms that the “Scribes (i.e., Torah Teachers) and Pharisees” are in some sense the proper heirs of Moses. While the book of Matthew as a whole – and Matthew 23 in particular – levels fierce criticism at the conduct of many of these “Scribes and Pharisees,” its
terminology and halakhic orientation have much in common with what we know of the early rabbinic movement. It is likely that the book’s author knew segments of the early rabbinic movement, embraced and promoted many of their core tenets and halakhic perspectives, yet found some of their primary leaders lacking in character, spiritual discernment, and good judgment – as reflected especially in their response to Yeshua and their treatment of his disciples. In light of the high tensions of the period, the transmission of this qualified endorsement of the “Scribes and Pharisees” in Matthew 23:2–3 – with its allusion to Deuteronomy 17 – is remarkable.

While halakhic authority is vested in particular leaders and groups of leaders,  it is fundamentally bestowed by Hashem on the people as a whole (Deuteronomy 16:18; 17:14–15; Esther 9:23, 26–28) – “catholic (i.e., universal) Israel,” as it was called by Solomon Schechter.

Halakhic Authority, the Bilateral Ekklesia, and the Wounded Two-Fold Tradition

Though the Sages of the rabbinic tradition are legitimate bearers of halakhic authority, they are not the only leaders with such competence. As the embodiment of heavenly Wisdom and the living Torah, Yeshua himself is the ultimate earthly source of halakhic authority. While he acknowledged the authority of some leaders in the wider Jewish community, he also formed his own messianic subcommunity and bestowed upon its designated leaders – the Apostles – the authority to bind and loose (Matthew 16:16–19; 18:18). In doing so, Yeshua was authorizing the Apostles to regulate the life of the messianic community according to their Master’s interpretation of the Torah and according to the guidance of his Spirit who writes the Torah on the hearts of his disciples (Matthew 28:18–20;
John 14:26; Jeremiah 31:33; 2 Corinthians 3:2–3). Following their Master, the Apostles respected the authority of the wider Jewish community and its leaders for the governance of public Jewish life (Acts 23:4-5) but also asserted their freedom to diverge from its rulings when they were clearly incompatible with the commandments of the risen Messiah (Acts 4:18–20; 5:27–32).

The halakhic authority given to the Apostles by Yeshua had a bilateral character, in conformity to the bilateral character of the ekklesia in which it was exercised. (The ekklesia of Yeshua is inherently bilateral in that it is constituted by two distinct yet united corporate spheres – one which is primarily made up of Jews and the other which is primarily made up of Gentiles.) The halakhah appropriate to the Jewish ekklesia differed from the halakhah appropriate to the multinational ekklesia (Acts 15:19–21; Acts 21:17–26; 1 Corinthians 7:17–19), and it appears as though each of the Apostles had a mandate to function primarily in one or the other sphere (Galatians 2:7–10).

 

You may wish to read this in it's entirety. So similar to Mark Kinzers book on Jewish sacraments of Catholic Judaism. Even the command to bind and lose is Catholic like.......Also Catholic means more than organizations to merely evangelize Jew's. As it is BI LATERAL meaning Gentiles are part of it.

 

Wow Shiloh here is some more.

Excerpt from the Messianic Jewish rabbinical council..........

Christian Tradition and the Halakhic Process

As noted above, the halakhic authority given to the Apostles by Yeshua had a bilateral character corresponding to the bilateral character of the ekklesia of Jews and Gentiles in which it was exercised. The disruption in the transmission of this bilateral tradition caused by the tragic disappearance of the Jewish ekklesia disfigured the understanding of the Torah passed on within the ekklesia of the
nations, but it did not nullify the ekklesia’s enduring apostolic authority in its own proper sphere. This means that in certain matters we must learn not only from Jewish tradition but also from ecclesial tradition

However, the disappearance of the Jewish ekklesia and the growth of anti-Jewish sentiment and belief in the historical church undermined the authority of ecclesial teachers in their halakhic interpretation of the Apostolic Writings as applied to the distinctive features of Jewish life. Nevertheless, some elements of the halakhic approach of Yeshua and the Apostles (e.g., the centrality of the
two love commandments) were equally applicable to both wings of the bilateral ekklesia, and in its treatment of such matters ecclesial tradition retains much wisdom which can benefit Jews as well as Gentiles. Similarly, some elements of the non-halakhic teaching of Yeshua and the Apostles (e.g., concerning the deity of Yeshua) were equally applicable to both wings of the bilateral ekklesia, and in
its treatment of such matters ecclesial tradition is again worthy of our study and discerning reception.

 

Not to much missing there concerning ekklesiastical authority through tradition huh? I can see why they love to bash Catholicism .......................................And why they foment complaints against it....................................

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, Joline.

Why did the Church lose it's so-called "Jewishness?" It's because in the fourth century A.D., the Jewish believers who maintained their Jewish traditions were outlawed by the newly formed Roman Church with its many anti-Semitic constituents! Those who claimed to be "Christian" betrayed other Christian believers because they were Jewish!

So, here we have a situation where

The Pharisees are given authority to establish a new Judaism by a Roman Emperor.

These declare Christianity a non Judaism.................

Christian Jew's and Christian Gentiles are outlawed and lose the exemption from Idol worship, and are persecuted.

While this is going on, the new Roman installed Sanhedrin, works to establish this new Judaism. And still maintain their exemption from idol's and Emperor worship......................

Now how long was it between Rome outlawing and legalizing Christianity? A couple hundred years or so at least. A Christian holocaust.

And some church fathers may have said bad things about this rabbinate? That disturbs you?

I tend to think this "Jewishness" of which you speak is not first century Levitical Judaism. Rather it is first century Pharisaical traditions they wished to maintain.....................

 

 

,

[Guest]

On ‎6‎/‎4‎/‎2016 at 8:08 PM, Qnts2 said:

I agree. I know of many Jewish people who view much of Christianity as anti-semitic because Nazi's were Christian and called the Jews Christ-killers and promoted Luther's work 'The Jews and their lies' which was anti-semitic. It is simple logic to reject a religion which is believed to be anti-semitic. Why would a Jewish person want anything to do with a religion which is anti-semitic? 

When I accepted Jesus as Messiah, I had many Jewish people very angry as they thought I had betrayed the Jewish people by joining in with anti-semites. I was told I was worse then Hitler, because I was Jewish and I was believed to have joined with anti-semites. 

I know Jewish believers who believed in Jesus, despite Christianity. It is afterward that they discovered that Christianity has a lot of variation.

Aw come on....

Jew's did not try to escape to countries which had many many Christians? Of course they knew they were attempting to escape the NAZI's, not Christians.

 

 

[FresnoJoe]

12 hours ago, Joline said:

I tend to think this "Jewishness"

But With God

And they were astonished out of measure, saying among themselves, Who then can be saved? And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible. Mark 10:26-27 (King James Bible)

Israel~!

For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second. Because finding fault with them, He says: "Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah-- not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they did not continue in My covenant, and I disregarded them, says the Lord. For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. None of them shall teach his neighbor, and none his brother, saying, 'Know the Lord,' for all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them. For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more." In that He says, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away. Hebrews 8:7-13 (New American Standard Bible)

The Beloved~!

“Behold, days are coming,” declares the LORD, “when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah, not like the covenant which I made with their fathers in the day I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, although I was a husband to them,” declares the LORD. “But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days,” declares the LORD, “I will put My law within them and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. “They will not teach again, each man his neighbor and each man his brother, saying, ‘Know the LORD,’ for they will all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them,” declares the LORD, “for I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”

      Thus says the LORD,
            Who gives the sun for light by day
            And the fixed order of the moon and the stars for light by night,
            Who stirs up the sea so that its waves roar;
            The LORD of hosts is His name:

      “If this fixed order departs
            From before Me,” declares the LORD,
            “Then the offspring of Israel also will cease
            From being a nation before Me forever.”

      Thus says the LORD,
            “If the heavens above can be measured
            And the foundations of the earth searched out below,
            Then I will also cast off all the offspring of Israel
            For all that they have done,” declares the LORD.

      “Behold, days are coming,” declares the LORD, “when the city will be rebuilt for the LORD from the Tower of Hananel to the Corner Gate. “The measuring line will go out farther straight ahead to the hill Gareb; then it will turn to Goah. “And the whole valley of the dead bodies and of the ashes, and all the fields as far as the brook Kidron, to the corner of the Horse Gate toward the east, shall be holy to the LORD; it will not be plucked up or overthrown anymore forever.” Jeremiah 31:31-40 (New American Standard Bible)

Hosanna LORD, Save Now~!

[Guest]

16 minutes ago, FresnoJoe said:

But With God

And they were astonished out of measure, saying among themselves, Who then can be saved? And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible. Mark 10:26-27 (King James Bible)

Israel~!

For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second. Because finding fault with them, He says: "Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah-- not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they did not continue in My covenant, and I disregarded them, says the Lord. For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. None of them shall teach his neighbor, and none his brother, saying, 'Know the Lord,' for all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them. For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more." In that He says, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away. Hebrews 8:7-13 (New American Standard Bible)

The Beloved~!

“Behold, days are coming,” declares the LORD, “when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah, not like the covenant which I made with their fathers in the day I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, although I was a husband to them,” declares the LORD. “But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days,” declares the LORD, “I will put My law within them and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. “They will not teach again, each man his neighbor and each man his brother, saying, ‘Know the LORD,’ for they will all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them,” declares the LORD, “for I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”

      Thus says the LORD,
            Who gives the sun for light by day
            And the fixed order of the moon and the stars for light by night,
            Who stirs up the sea so that its waves roar;
            The LORD of hosts is His name:

      “If this fixed order departs
            From before Me,” declares the LORD,
            “Then the offspring of Israel also will cease
            From being a nation before Me forever.”

      Thus says the LORD,
            “If the heavens above can be measured
            And the foundations of the earth searched out below,
            Then I will also cast off all the offspring of Israel
            For all that they have done,” declares the LORD.

      “Behold, days are coming,” declares the LORD, “when the city will be rebuilt for the LORD from the Tower of Hananel to the Corner Gate. “The measuring line will go out farther straight ahead to the hill Gareb; then it will turn to Goah. “And the whole valley of the dead bodies and of the ashes, and all the fields as far as the brook Kidron, to the corner of the Horse Gate toward the east, shall be holy to the LORD; it will not be plucked up or overthrown anymore forever.” Jeremiah 31:31-40 (New American Standard Bible)

Hosanna LORD, Save Now~!

Heb 7:16  Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.

[Guest]

On ‎6‎/‎4‎/‎2016 at 2:27 PM, Qnts2 said:

While I have not read anything by Wurmbrand, that is the general experience of almost every Jewish person who comes to believe on Jesus.

When I accepted Jesus, it was because God drew me to read the NT. Once I was convinced and believed Jesus was the Messiah and Savior, I did not want to go to any church because history and personal experience had taught me that many Gentiles hated the Jewish people. The more religious, the more likely the Gentiles hated Jewish people.

Jewish people know little to nothing about Christianity other then Christians have called Jewish people Christ-killers and abused or killed Jewish people. Jewish people know nothing about denominations as it is not a Jewish concept. So to a Jewish person, Christianity is Christianity with no divisions. Jewish people do not read the NT, but based on over 1000 years of persecution done in Jesus name, it is assumed that the 'Gentile bible'/NT must be antisemitic or why would Christianity of so many different countries over hundreds of years, persecuted Jewish people in Jesus name?  

Shiloh is correct. 

Quite frankly Qnts, the Jewish people believe what they believe because their learned Rabbi's allow or encourage such beliefs. I mean really, your leadership is not ignorant.

[Qnts2]

9 minutes ago, Joline said:

Quite frankly Qnts, the Jewish people believe what they believe because their learned Rabbi's allow or encourage such beliefs. I mean really, your leadership is not ignorant.

I was in 'leadership' in Judaism, and when I say the majority of Jewish people know almost nothing about Christianity, I am including the majority of Rabbi's. 

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Qnts2 said:

I was in 'leadership' in Judaism, and when I say the majority of Jewish people know almost nothing about Christianity, I am including the majority of Rabbi's. 

Well then no wonder the people are ignorant of Christianity. their Rabbis do not educate themselves concerning anrti senitism? Rabbi's have been in dialogue with even the Roman Catholic church for may years now Qnts.  How could they not know?