Genesis - From a Different Perspective

[Ezra]

On 6/23/2016 at 8:36 AM, shiloh357 said:

So why is it not the case that God created light external to Himself?   Why is that unacceptable?

There is absolutely nothing in Scripture which would indicate that light outside of God is unacceptable.  Indeed quite the opposite.  We need to be careful not to invent doctrines.

14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:

15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.

16And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.

17And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,

18And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.

19And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.

[Guest shiloh357]

16 minutes ago, Seve said:

Dear Out of the Shadows,

Here’s how you can reconcile the Physical forming of Adam from the dust of the ground becoming a NATURAL living soul, on the 3rd Day of Genesis.... Before he was Created in the image and likeness God, Spiritually, on the 6th Day... after he sinned; and called upon the name of the Lord - Gen. 4:26; and redeemed by being given a quickening spirit.

"Gen 2:4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were CREATED (by the Father),  in the day that the LORD God (by the Son) MADE (formed/fashioned) the earth and the heavens, (Plural)

The "Day" is the 3rd Day. One can see this because it is the "Day" in which the "Earth" is made. 

Gen. 1:9-10 confirms that the "Earth" was made on the 3rd Day. Heavens is Plural and shows that Jesus also made "Heavens", on the 3rd Day.*

Gen 2:5 And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground.

Further confirmation that these verses are speaking of the 3rd Day, BEFORE the plants, and herbs, which were made on the 3rd Day, Gen 1:11-12. Why is it so important for the 3rd Day to be identified. Read the next verses.

Gen 2:6 But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground.

Gen. 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. 

Gen. 2:8 And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.

As you should clearly see, Adam was made on the 3rd Day Before the plants, herbs, and rain. 

Once you understand this, you will see that Mankind has preeminence or first place among all other living creatures. It is also in  agreement with the events of the 6th Day when the LORD made the animals from the dust and brought them to Adam to name them. Notice that Adam was ALONE at the beginning of the 6th Day. Gen 2:18

 

God bless

 

Yeah, there is NOTHING in that which indicates that man was formed from the dust on the 3rd day, but made in God's image on the 6th day.  That is just not true. 

[Seve]

26 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

Yeah, there is NOTHING in that which indicates that man was formed from the dust on the 3rd day, but made in God's image on the 6th day.  That is just not true. 

Sorry, my friend, but, seemingly, you are the one who's been reduce to NOTHING.... You can not even comprehend how to reconcile Biblical Proof Texts together...  All you can do now is harp from the outside w/o basis & merit of your disagreement... 

1 Co 1:19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent. v20 Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?

 

Edited June 24, 2016 by Seve

[Running Gator]

38 minutes ago, Seve said:

Dear Out of the Shadows,

Here’s how you can reconcile the Physical forming of Adam from the dust of the ground becoming a NATURAL living soul, on the 3rd Day of Genesis.... Before he was Created in the image and likeness God, Spiritually, on the 6th Day... after he sinned; and called upon the name of the Lord - Gen. 4:26; and redeemed by being given a quickening spirit.

"Gen 2:4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were CREATED (by the Father),  in the day that the LORD God (by the Son) MADE (formed/fashioned) the earth and the heavens, (Plural)

The "Day" is the 3rd Day. One can see this because it is the "Day" in which the "Earth" is made. 

Gen. 1:9-10 confirms that the "Earth" was made on the 3rd Day. Heavens is Plural and shows that Jesus also made "Heavens", on the 3rd Day.*

Gen 2:5 And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground.

Further confirmation that these verses are speaking of the 3rd Day, BEFORE the plants, and herbs, which were made on the 3rd Day, Gen 1:11-12. Why is it so important for the 3rd Day to be identified. Read the next verses.

Gen 2:6 But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground.

Gen. 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. 

Gen. 2:8 And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.

As you should clearly see, Adam was made on the 3rd Day Before the plants, herbs, and rain. 

Once you understand this, you will see that Mankind has preeminence or first place among all other living creatures. It is also in  agreement with the events of the 6th Day when the LORD made the animals from the dust and brought them to Adam to name them. Notice that Adam was ALONE at the beginning of the 6th Day. Gen 2:18

1 Cor 15:45- 46 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.v46 Howbeit  that was not first which is spiritual, but that  which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

 

God bless

 

The heavens were not made on day 3, this is just faulty comprehension on your part.  

Day 3...

And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.

¹⁰ And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.

¹¹ And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.

¹² And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

¹³ And the evening and the morning were the third day.

 

Nothing about heavens being created.   Either you lack comprehension or you are reading into the text to make it match your preconceived ideas,  either way, you are wrong. 

[Seve]

18 minutes ago, Out of the Shadows said:

The heavens were not made on day 3, this is just faulty comprehension on your part.  

Day 3...

And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.

¹⁰ And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.

¹¹ And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.

¹² And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

¹³ And the evening and the morning were the third day.

 

Nothing about heavens being created.   Either you lack comprehension or you are reading into the text to make it match your preconceived ideas,  either way, you are wrong. 

Seemingly, it is your reading comprehension and common sense that has some problem...

Gen. 2:4-5 show us that the other "HeavenS" (Plural) were formed on the 3rd Day.

My view was influenced by the Scriptural Fact that Scripture speaks of THREE Heavens.

The first Heaven was in the midst of water and later destroyed in a Flood.
The second Heaven is our world, which is scheduled to be burned. 
The third Heaven is the object of the Creation, contains a single city with streets of gold and gates of pearl, and it will never die (Rev.21).

The first heaven was made the SECOND Day. Genesis 1:6-8
The second heaven was made the THIRD Day. Genesis 2:4
The third heaven is also made on the THIRD Day. Genesis 2:4

Isa 65:17 For, behold, I create new heavenS (Plural) and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

Edited June 24, 2016 by Seve

[Running Gator]

10 minutes ago, Seve said:

Seemingly, it is your reading comprehension and common sense that has some problem...

Gen. 2:4-5 show us that the other "HeavenS" (Plural) were formed on the 3rd Day.

My view was influenced by the Scriptural Fact that Scripture speaks of THREE Heavens.

The first Heaven was in the midst of water and later destroyed in a Flood.
The second Heaven is our world, which is scheduled to be burned. 
The third Heaven is the object of the Creation, contains a single city with streets of gold and gates of pearl, and it will never die (Rev.21).

The first heaven was made the SECOND Day. Genesis 1:6-8
The second heaven was made the THIRD Day. Genesis 2:4
The third heaven is also made on the THIRD Day. Genesis 2:4

Isa 65:17 For, behold, I create new heavenS (Plural) and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

You are making no sense, Genesis 2:4 is not talking about the 3rd day.  

[George]

I'm locking down this thread and I will unlock it AFTER my SHABBAT or until another Moderator can unlock it.  It's my day of rest and with 4 different Reports on this thread alone, I'm shutting it down.  ENJOY SHABBAT!  Enjoy the presence of the Lord! This discussion can resume in a few days! 

[Steve_S]

The thread has been reopened and Seve has been banned from the thread and assessed a warning point for the following comments:

10 hours ago, Seve said:

Sorry, my friend, but, seemingly, you are the one who's been reduce to NOTHING.... You can not even comprehend how to reconcile Biblical Proof Texts together...  All you can do now is harp from the outside w/o basis & merit of your disagreement... 

 

16 hours ago, Seve said:

Your false accusation is only based on your spiritual ignorance of the Scripture - to what it really says - which is contrary to your traditional views. Sorry

Please remember when posting that we have a zero tolerance policy for personal attacks.

God bless,

Steve

[Revelation Man]

On 6/23/2016 at 9:26 AM, Seve said:

During the time Jesus was praying to his Father at the garden of Gethsemane before his death in crucifixion , He speaks of the following.....

And now, O Father, glorify thou Me with Thine Own Self with the Glory which I had with Thee BEFORE the world was." John 17:5 

Glory is brightness, a physical trait. Jesus was speaking of the brightness of his Glory that he shared to his Father, when God said.."LET THERE BE LIGHT"....(Gen. 1:3). Before the world was could only be Before 1st Day. 

If one believes that In the Beginning God Formed the 1st Heaven BEFORE the 1st Day, then the Words of Jesus would seem to be in error.

If one believes that the 1st Firmament or Heaven was formed on the 2nd Day (Gen.1:6), then it would agree with Jesus, and would show that Jesus came into the World Before the 1st Heaven was formed....... BEFORE THE WORLD WAS!

I agree with most of your OP, as a matter of fact I have posted a thesis on just that subject measuring the "Creation days" by billions and millions of years. But what was created was light, I know the Atheist argue that hence light was created on the first day and fourth day, so some Christians try to explain this away by saying the first light was of Jesus. Well that doesn't have to be, and you had the answer at the tip of your tongue/fingers when you spoke of the Dark/Void time. There was "Darkness on the face of the Deep", after the Big Bang, or God saying let there be light, there was Inflation, followed by 400 Million years of Darkness (Darkness on the face of the Deep) followed by Stars that started forming at the 400 million year mark. So we had a gulf of 400 million years of Darkness, followed by trillions of stars being created (still forming) so God separated the Darkness from the Light, and the Evening (Evening is first because Darkness was first) and the Morning was the First Day. I think the First Day (YOM can be a period of time, not always a Day) was 9.2 Billion years old, then Earth and the Sun came about at 4.5 billion years BC. That began the Second Day and so forth. 

 

 

 

Edited June 25, 2016 by Revelation Man

[Kan]

The Bible indicates that the light comes directly from Jesus and especially from His word, so we may not see this light as ordinary. 

There are many texts that show that this light is supernatural.

But one that comes to mind is II Corinthians 4:6, which reflects what Jesus said about the light shining into the darkness.

"For God Who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, (Genesis 1) hath shined into our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ." Ordinary light cannot save us.

There is nothing wrong with thinking that the light in the beginning is ordinary light, because God made that too, but an understanding of how matter is made will show that everything is made by the Word, which produces a supernatural light, from which matter is made. Remember God "commanded the light to shine" before the "earth" appeared on the third day, and named so by God. 

Genesis is about making a home for mankind. First things first. The people are made last, when everything has been prepared for them. The generations of God in creation are purposefully ordered according to need etc.

God asked Job, what is the earth founded on, and the answers are given as they are in Genesis - the earth rests on foundations which consist of the powers which God made on the first and second day, which were made by the spoken Word of God. Matter cannot exist or appear without the first two days in creation. That is why God names the "Earth" on the day it appears. If the earth was under water, then God would have seen it. And even we could have figured it out. Yet God saw the earth even before it appeared, that it was without form and void within the darkness. 

Something that has no form and is void, is nonexistent as far as we are concerned, but God can see whatever will appear before it appears. He can see the object in the invisible powers that He has. 

Invisible things are created by Jesus as well as the visible. Science by its own policies only allows the observable and perceivable to be acknowledged, but the student of faith is able to grasp much more than meets the eye, by trusting in what God says. So by faith we understand that the worlds are not made of things which can be perceived, but they are framed by what cannot be seen, even the Word of God.

Hebrews 11:3.