The Last Trumpet is not the 7th Trumpet

[Marcus O'Reillius]

Here, logically from Scripture, is why the Last Trumpet is not the seventh Trumpet of God's Wrath.

1. The Last Trumpet calls the Dead forth from Paradise (the ends of Heaven).

1Co 15:51 Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed — 52 in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.

2. That happens on the Day of the Lord as Paul identifies it.

1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.

2TH 2:1 Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers, 2 not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by some prophecy, report or letter supposed to have come from us, saying that the day of the Lord has already come.

On the Day of the Lord we will see the Dead in Christ rise first and then we who are still alive and are left will be caught up with them on the clouds. So we have two markers here which identify when Jesus is coming for us.

• It is on the Day of the Lord.

• It is on the clouds.

3. The Day of the Lord is when Jesus comes to get us. The Day of the Lord is identified by its signature Sun/moon/star sign:

MT 24:29 "Immediately after the distress of those days
" `the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.'

MT 24:30 "At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory. 31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

Jesus uses the Sun/moon/star event from prophecy to identify the Day when He comes on the clouds to gather the Elect - just like Paul says in 1Th 4:16-17 which directly relates back to 1Co 15:52.

4. The specific and unique signature sign heralding the Day of the Lord is revealed by Jesus to John with the sixth Seal:

REV 6:12 I watched as he opened the sixth seal. There was a great earthquake. The sun turned black like sackcloth made of goat hair, the whole moon turned blood red, 13 and the stars in the sky fell to earth, as late figs drop from a fig tree when shaken by a strong wind. 14 The sky receded like a scroll, rolling up, and every mountain and island was removed from its place.

Therefore, we can conclude that Day of the Lord happens at the breaking of the sixth Seal.
- The Day of the Lord is when we are gathered up as Paul said in Second Thessalonians.
- Jesus said that after the Day of the Lord sign comes, the Elect will be gathered.
- Therefore, in the Seal/Scroll account of Revelation chapters 4-11, the Great Multitude are the result of that gathering Harvest of Saints out of the then-shortened time of the Great Tribulation.
- This claim is buttressed by the eyewitness testimony of an Elder who says the Great Multitude come out of the Great Tribulation, which echoes exactly the order Jesus gave in the Olivet Discourse.

The Day of the Lord happens before ANY of the Trumpet Judgments go forth.
·         Only after the sixth Seal is broken is the seventh Seal broken.
·         Then, and only then, when all the Seals have been broken, can the Scroll, where “desolations have been decreed” from 2500 years ago (Dan 9:26), be read, and only then does the First Trumpet of seven even sound.
·         And then, and only then, do we see “desolations” of Biblical proportions inflicted upon creation which in turn creates hardship for the wicked left upon the earth.

The Church is not to endure these conditions:

Rom 2:8 But for those who are self–seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger.  9 There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile.

Rom 5:9 Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God’s wrath through him!

1Th 1:10 …and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead —Jesus, who rescues us from the coming wrath.

1Th 5:8 But since we belong to the day, let us be self–controlled, putting on faith and love as a breastplate, and the hope of salvation as a helmet.  9 For God did not appoint us to suffer wrath but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ.  10 He died for us so that, whether we are awake or asleep, we may live together with him.

The Last Trumpet is not the seventh Trumpet.

 

·         The Bible never labels the seventh Trumpet as the Last Trumpet.
·         Instead, the “Last Trumpet,” as a named trumpet, is associated with the opening of Rosh ha-Shanah, the fall time Holy Day also known as the Festival of Trumpets. 
·         It is the first of many different trumpet soundings which occur over the next two days of this special Holy “Day” observance.
·         The “Last Trumpet” in Jewish ritual observance, of which Paul was schooled and practiced, is the mirror horn from the blowing of the “First Trumpet” sounded at the Festival of First Fruits in the spring.

The Last Trumpet in end-time prophecy happens after:

1. The one ‘seven’ starts

2. The first half oppression

3. The midpoint abomination(s)

4. The Great Tribulation

It happens on:

The Day of the Lord

It happens before:

1. Any of God’s Wrath goes forth which begins with fire (and the resultant smoke) on the Day of the Lord (second half) – first Trumpet

2. The rest of the Trumpet Judgments (which take time)

3. The final Bowl Judgments (which are the third Woe which is never delineated in the Seal chronology) which complete the one ‘seven’ as per Daniel 9:27.

 

[Ezra]

1 hour ago, Marcus O'Reillius said:

Here, logically from Scripture, is why the Last Trumpet is not the seventh Trumpet of God's Wrath.

Agreed. Why anyone would assume that this is true is amazing. The Last Trump (the Trump of God) is for the deliverance of the saints. The seventh trumpet is for the wrath of God to be poured out on unbelieving and ungodly.

[Last Daze]

The last trumpet is the trumpet of God; its His  trumpet.

Then the Lord will appear over them,
And His arrow will go forth like lightning;
And the Lord God will blow the trumpet,
And will march in the storm winds of the south.  Zechariah 9:14

[Serving]

4 hours ago, Marcus O'Reillius said:

The Day of the Lord happens before ANY of the Trumpet Judgments go forth.
·         Only after the sixth Seal is broken is the seventh Seal broken.
·         Then, and only then, when all the Seals have been broken, can the Scroll, where “desolations have been decreed” from 2500 years ago (Dan 9:26), be read, and only then does the First Trumpet of seven even sound.
·         And then, and only then, do we see “desolations” of Biblical proportions inflicted upon creation which in turn creates hardship for the wicked left upon the earth.

 

Marcus, your whole assumption in your opening OP is wrong and all I need do is disprove the above assumption, and the thread that ties your entire assumption together, will .. quickly come undone .. and it can be disproved with just two examples too : 

1) WHOSE kingdom was it during the 7 trumpet/vial wrath of God?

Revelation 16:10 And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain,

It was the false prophet's kingdom whose kingdom is really Satan's kingdom on earth .. 

2) And WHOSE kingdom does the earth become AFTER the 7th trumpet/vial?

Revelation 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

Which means that what you said here : "The Day of the Lord happens before ANY of the Trumpet Judgments go forth" .. has just been proved wrong.

Satan's rule over the earth ENDS at the 7th trump/vial .. and as we see above, BEFORE that 7th trump/vial sounded, Satan's kingdom was already suffering the Wrath of God .. suffering the Wrath of God BEFORE Christ returned.

You need to fix those mistakes before anything else you have assumed within this topic can be taken seriously, because it is most certainly NOT biblical in the least .. regarding this topic that is.

And don't get angry at me, instead, you should thank me for correcting your error .. you're welcome.

[Marcus O'Reillius]

2 hours ago, Serving said:

Marcus, your whole assumption in your opening OP is wrong 

What assumption is that?

I didn't make any assumption.

The first line I put out was an assertion based on a conclusion drawn from a logical thread through Scripture where each is linked by context and language.
The title of the thread introduces the conclusion.
The body proves the conclusion.
The conclusion then sums up the proof provided in the body.

 

2 hours ago, Serving said:

You need to fix those mistakes before anything else you have assumed within this topic can be taken seriously, because it is most certainly NOT biblical in the least .. regarding this topic that is.\

First of all, the Kingdom of God is not synonymous with the Day of the Lord.

Second of all, it is taken from the Bible directly.

Now if you don't like it, you might show specifically why something does not match - but unlike you, I did start with the only reference for the "last trumpet" in the Bible and didn't do an apple and oranges comparison.

[Marcus O'Reillius]

2 hours ago, Serving said:

Which means that what you said here : "The Day of the Lord happens before ANY of the Trumpet Judgments go forth" .. has just been proved wrong.

I am not arguing that the Kingdom of God is not established at the end of the one 'seven' on the earth.  That is the message of both Daniel 2 and Revelation 11/16/19.

But here's a funny thing... I dare you to pull up every reference about the Kingdom of God. 

Do you know, that based on what is in the Bible, by what Jesus says, there is no way to state what its borders are, how large it is, or exactly when it is.  One or two references are not enough, because if you go far enough, the Kingdom of God will be contradicted by another...

What I am arguing is that the Last Trumpet, which is the trumpet call of God, which Jesus' sounds raising the Dead in Christ - is not equal to the seventh trumpet of God's Wrath which an Angel sounds.

They are two different trumpets.

[WilliamL]

15 hours ago, Marcus O'Reillius said:

What I am arguing is that the Last Trumpet, which is the trumpet call of God, which Jesus' sounds raising the Dead in Christ - is not equal to the seventh trumpet of God's Wrath which an Angel sounds.

They are two different trumpets.

True. According to ancient Hebraic eschatology, the First Trumpet -- literally, shofar -- of God was blown when God descended upon Mount Sinai, and the Last (and greater) Shofar/Trumpet will be blown to announce the resurrection of the dead and the End of Days judgments. This prophecy was well-known in Paul's time; whereas the 7 trumpets of Revelation were totally unknown before John published the Revelation many years later.

Paul did not explain the term "last trump" in 1 Cor. 15 because people already knew what he meant.

[Marcus O'Reillius]

1 minute ago, WilliamL said:

Paul did not explain the term "last trump" in 1 Cor. 15 because people already knew what he meant.

And Paul, as a trained Pharisee, was also intimately familiar with the Temple practices revolving around the "Festivals" - or to put it in their vernacular - "appointed times" (with God).  As one Jewish author writing on the Festivals said: 'If you have an appointment with God, it is suggested you keep it!'

Paul then also invokes the analogy of the Fall Festivals to Jesus' Second Advent.  In this manner, Rosh ha-Shannah, the "Returning Anew" - is the "unknown" Day because it comes with the sighting of the new moon.  All other Festivals can be know beforehand.  It precedes the Days of Awe, and Yom Kippur - the reconciliation with God.  As Paul says in Col 2:16, the Festivals are a template for what is to come.  As Jesus fulfilled the Spring Festivals literally, so too with the latter rain, He will fulfill the Fall Festivals in a literal manner.

[Marcus O'Reillius]

Paul is not referencing what John wrote in Revelation.  At the time Paul wrote about the Last Trumpet, John had not yet written his revelation from Jesus.

[Ezra]

2 minutes ago, inchrist said:

What I found amazing is you seem to not see any connection with the battle of Jericho and the beast kingdom in Revelation

There is none whatsoever.