thev never ending debate

[Ezra]

1 hour ago, Butero said:

I have more of an issue with churches that want to go to all choruses than a church like you described that uses both.

Churches going to all choruses is another manifestation of the decline of worship and the decline of churches.  What is more disturbing is the *contemporary Christian music* trend, which tries to bring the music of the world into Christianity, and tries to glorify entertainers instead of God.

Christians should ask themselves why there should be a divide between traditional and contemporary worship, which actually splits the church into two groups.  There is no sanction in Scripture for such nonsense.

 

[RustyAngeL]

1 hour ago, Butero said:

I like both to be included in the service.  I like to sing a couple of hymns out of the hymnal, and I also like to have a time of praise and worship type songs.  I have no issue with using as many instruments as you wish, if you can find people capable of playing them.  I have more of an issue with churches that want to go to all choruses than a church like you described that uses both. 

You can have a dead church either way.  Choruses can become dead and dry as easily as songs from a hymnal can.  Being Pentecostal, I like churches where you can clap your hands while singing, and raise your hands to the Lord in worship.  That is what I prefer, but this is not a deal breaker for me when it comes to finding a church.  I can live with a church that chooses hymns, choruses or both.  I just prefer both.  What I hate is contemporary Christian music that sounds like rock being sung in the church.  That would be a turn off to me. 

As I said I go to a church that sings praise and worship.  We don't use the older hymns, but I do love them.  And I have noticed the verses they leave out are some of the most beautiful.  God through all the verses of Amazing Grace, truly beautiful words.

Blessings, RustyAngeL

[RustyAngeL]

7 minutes ago, Butero said:

That is something I hadn't even considered, but there is a lot of truth to it.  Churches that do use hymns will often times skip verses to keep on a tight schedule.  I think there is a place for a choir, traditional hymns and praise and worship choruses.  They can all give praise to God. 

Ezra made a good point about bringing worldly music into the church.  I don't see how having a hard rock group that sings songs with words about Jesus leads anyone into worship or edifies the body.  It is pure entertainment.  It may serve a purpose outside the church of offering alternative entertainment with more positive messages than you hear on the rock station, but it doesn't do anything for me in a church service. 

Actually I heard the band Skillet during a Franklin Graham crusade, called Rock the River.  There were about 10,000 kids there, young adults.  When the people in the band gave their testimony then started to sing, the kids in this crusade began to weep and just run forward to accept Jesus.  There were radical changes in their lives.  I don't pretend to  know what it takes to change a heart but I believe the Holy Spirit can reach anyone in anyway.  These kids were on their knees, hugging each other, and just worshiping God, it made me cry.  I was so excited to see the change in their lives.  Afterwards when asked why they came here, most were invited by friends, one young man had considered suicide that night, not he was just praising God and crying, and so anxious to share with his mom and dad what had happened  to him.   Praise God for His Grace and Mercy!

[The_Patriot21]

Skillet us awesome....another band I really enjoy is RED. 

 

The problem with arguing music is right or wrong based upon genre alone, is that you don't have a biblical argument for it. We have lyrics to many songs sung in the Bible but not how they were played, they could have been played to the tune of amazing grace, or to the tune of "monster" by skillet. We just don't know.

 

I am with butero I do enjoy a mixture of both, I find a lot of your praise choruses to be lacking in meat, but in the end the point of worship isn't for our entertainment its for the worship of God, so that we can draw nearer to Him. Genre isn't quite so important as the heart behind it.

[seraph]

17 hours ago, RobertS said:

Look at it this way: King David's first wife had a problem with the worship he was doing. We're always going to have folks with personal preferences when it comes to worship music.

The thing is: our worship isn't for others, it's for the Lord.

Exactly. That worship was 'contemporary music' at one time as were the hymns. People complained about that modern music then as people complain now.

[Guest shiloh357]

I remember the old CCM with groups like Petra, Whiteheart and DeGarmo and Key.  I remember Keith Green, the Imperials, Amy Grant and so man others.   I miss that CCM.   There is something about today's CCM that just doesn't have the same flavor.  So much of the old stuff talked about standing up for your faith and spoke of  no compromise, and living for Christ.  That's not to say that all CCM today is bad, or anything.   

I guess you like what you were raised on.

In my old age, I have become a fan of Southern Gospel, these days.  Brings back memories as well.

[RustyAngeL]

2 hours ago, Butero said:

I like both to be included in the service.  I like to sing a couple of hymns out of the hymnal, and I also like to have a time of praise and worship type songs.  I have no issue with using as many instruments as you wish, if you can find people capable of playing them.  I have more of an issue with churches that want to go to all choruses than a church like you described that uses both. 

You can have a dead church either way.  Choruses can become dead and dry as easily as songs from a hymnal can.  Being Pentecostal, I like churches where you can clap your hands while singing, and raise your hands to the Lord in worship.  That is what I prefer, but this is not a deal breaker for me when it comes to finding a church.  I can live with a church that chooses hymns, choruses or both.  I just prefer both.  What I hate is contemporary Christian music that sounds like rock being sung in the church.  That would be a turn off to me. 

One Sunday we sang "I'll Fly Away" We almost lifted the roof off the church,  it was so awesome!  I too as I said, love the old hymns.  One of my favorite is The Old Rugged Cross Made The Difference.

[Guest shiloh357]

When it comes to Hymns, my favorite is "Jesus Shall Reign Where Ere' The Sun."

[creativemechanic]

On 11/08/2016 at 1:34 PM, Ezra said:

Cts going to all choruses i s another manifestation of the decline of worship and the decline of churches.  What is more disturbing is the *contemporary Christian music* trend, which tries to bring the music of the world into Christianity, and tries to glorify entertainers instead of God.

Christians should ask themselves why there should be a divide between traditional and contemporary worship, which actually splits the church into two groups.  There is no sanction in Scripture for such nonsense.

 

But u do realise that traditional Was Once contemporary at some point, and that it was  probably opposed by people who didnt Want it then

Edited August 13, 2016 by creativemechanic

[Guest shiloh357]

The problem  with modern praise and worship, at least for me, has a little to with style related issues as well as content.   It's very ecumenical and devoid of a lot of Christian doctrine.   The old hymns were chock full of theology.  

Around 70% of the theology you learn in church, you learn by singing.  The remaining 30% is divided up between the sermon, Bible study and other para-church ministries.  Today's choruses really are about loving Jesus.  Nothing wrong with that, but our music should also be about honoring Him with respect to His glory ie., His holiness, His grace, mercy, sovereignty, power, justness and righteousness.  They ought to honor Him for what He has done, the fact that He is our King and Lord.     Modern praise and worship, generally skips over all of that.  Very little is said about the blood of Jesus, about and about the Gospel.   I am sure some examples can be found, but I am speaking in a general sense.

Today's praise and worship artists' songs are owned by secular recording companies/labels.  That's one reason why you don't see a lot of deep theology in their music.   They pretty much stick sounding like love songs to Jesus so that if the album or single doesn't make any money in the Christian sector, it can be turned into a secular love song, and cross over into the secular market.

I would also add that many of these praise and worship songs are not written in  a manner that makes them conducive to corporate worship.   They are not as much congregation oriented, as they are performance oriented.   They are written in a key that the average person cannot sing in. They are written with a professional singer/performer in mind, not the average worshiper.  They go up and down the scale with octaves that someone who is not a trained singer, or doesn't have natural singing ability cannot reach.   It makes it harder to sing and so people just don't sing.   It's one reason why praise and worship leaders get frustrated when they look out and see very little participation from the congregation.   They don't understand that the songs they are picking for the service are not what people can actually sing.

Generally speaking, the hymns are written mostly easy-to-sing keys and don't have wide ranges of notes.  Some are little bit hard to sing, but overall the hymns are far more easier to sing and far more conducive to congregational worship.  The hymns are not "old."  They are timeless.