1st and 2nd Seal Opened? How can we know?

[Diaste]

On 8/25/2016 at 2:11 PM, WilliamL said:

Types and shadows are just that. You keep adding your presumptions both to the Word and to what I write. In Rev. 6, the islands are 'moved out of their places': whereas in Rev. 16 they are 'fled away": two different things. Although both events are related to earthquakes, they are not the same quakes, just as they, in their types during the Exodus era, were different quakes. An island that is moved is by no means destroyed, as you presume the text implies.

So, if the normal reading of the text, and understanding the text in context, and applying simple logic to that same text, opposes your take, it's presumptuous? I'm sorry, but the text speaks to literal earthquake which moves the islands out of their places. This means that the islands are no longer in their original place and therefore could not be found. If they are fled away, they again left their original map coordinate and could not be found. In a normal, literal sense it's the same thing.  It's like not being able to find the cars keys saying, "I can't find my keys, they were right there, they must have grew legs and walked away."

I see the Abomination of Desolation as being the event that brings on the opening of all the Seals.

The type during the Exodus era was when the Destroyer killed the god Horus, son of Pharaoh, in his temple-palace, thus defiling it with a corpse. From that point on, all the types of the Seals ensued.

The type during the First Coming was when Judas threw the pagan blood-money into the naos/sanctuary/Holy Place, thus defiling it.

The Abomination of Desolation will likewise defile the Holy Place, bringing on all of the Seals.

Ok. A much more perfect type would be the acts of Antiochus lV foreshadowing the end of the age A of D. I see the lines drawn between the types you present and the end of the age A of D as thin.

 

[Diaste]

On 9/14/2016 at 0:26 PM, inchrist said:

The way I see it, the seals represent the spreading of the gospel.

And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

That's so far off from the text it bears on me to respond. If the seals are the spreading of the gospel are you saying the spreading of the gospel, incites the rise of conqueror, removes peace, allows worldwide economic control, brings death, kills believers and causes the end of the age?

[Diaste]

On 9/14/2016 at 0:21 PM, inchrist said:

I have to agree here

Comparing Rev 6 & Rev 16

Revelation 6

kineó - move (2), moved (1), provoked (1), remove (1), stirs (1), wagging (2).

The feeling is more of excitement like one being stirred than trying to escape

Revelation 16:20

pheugó - escape (2), escaped (2), fled (5), fled away (2), flee (13), flees (2), ran away (3).

The feeling is more of escape than being stirred to excitement.

If we are just comparing words this could make sense. But we are comparing the totality of the event. In comparing all the elements of the event we see so many similarities we must conclude the events are identical in time and space. 

[idono]

First of the seals (white horse) in Revelation 6 has already fulfilled; I reckon it refers to "Arab Spring", took place in the end of the year 2010. Many Middle-eastern countries’ governments had been toppled in this incident, which caused IS to be expanded and grow bigger.

We are in between first to third seal. I don’t know whether suicide bombers and “lone wolf” attacks can be considered as the second seal (red horse), maybe it is not.

Just wait and see whether “hyperinflation” take place or not in the short coming future (black horse), if it does then suicide bombers and “lone wolf” attacks is the second seal.

[Diaste]

On 9/26/2016 at 0:24 AM, inchrist said:

No we don't,

Rev 16:20

And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found

Why are the unbelievers hiding in caves if mountians were totally removed?

Then the kings of the earth, the princes, the generals, the rich, the mighty, and everyone else, both slave and free, hid in caves and among the rocks of the mountains.

Clearly Rev 6:15 shows mountains were found to hid in and amongest its rocks

Further there is a significant time period between 6:15 and 16:20

Easily resolved.  The events occur in succession. There is time between the first sign of Christ's coming, the cosmic signs, and the great earthquake that removes the mounts and the islands. One cannot assume that just because there is a list of events that these events are ordered in any certain way unless the text makes note of such an order, which in this case it does not. The main idea is that both must be true, i.e., the mountains and islands must be removed from their places, and the listed people must hide in those same mountains. The only way it makes sense is if the "the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man" have time to flee to the mountains while they are still standing. Since this verse says 'every', meaning 'all', there must be time for those who are not near mountains to flee to those mountains before the mountains come down. 

We do not know about any time period, significant or otherwise between the two verses. The facts dictate one of two conclusions; either there are multiple instances of the same supernatural events or, the similar events listed as part of the 6th seal, 7th trumpet, and 7th bowl are identical time/space events, indicating a culmination of seals, trumpets, and bowls at the same time/space moment. Of course several other conclusions could be attained through ignoring fact, suspension of logic, hard ideology, and/or false hope.

[thilipsis]

On Thursday, August 18, 2016 at 7:53 AM, Diaste said:

I don't know the answers. I think it's something we can know because it's in the Revelation. It's probably something we should know since Jesus told us, and it's the beginning of all that comes after.

Have we seen the first two seals opened?

Is the conquer of the 1st seal a worldwide force immediately? Or does he just begin to conquer and build dominance over time?  Could that be happening now, in 2016? Has that been occurring for a period of time already? Will this conqueror dominate through military or political power? Wealth? Better social policies? All of the above? Something else?

Is the 2nd seal an immediate and total worldwide phenomenon? Is peace going to be taken increments over time? Is this going on now? Has this been going on? Will peace being taken from the earth be the result of war? Terrorism? Alien invasion? Something else?

From what I see these conditions are in effect now, today, and growing in influence. But does that mean the seals have been opened, or are we seeing what might be initial action before the full operation begins?

D.

Well the first seal is not an interpretive challenge. The Conquerer starts a world wide conquest, the weapon is a bow implying ballistic missiles, or some threat of them. He is giving a crown indicating a head of state, but he is called 'the little horn' that uprots three other horns. The idea is he deposed by force three leaders, it's kind of like If Hungry took over England, France and Germany. 

Well these countries don't like being taken over by force and the rest of the world is threatened so the second rider is the same guy. War breaks out around the globe. 

The Pentegon simulates war scenarios and the only one we lose is called the cascade effect. Its when more and more people get involved tryi g to help. 

One of the worst things God can do is to hand us over to our sin. With the opening of the first seal God does exactly that, and out pops the Antichrist. The Devil would like to do it now but God won't let him. 

Edited December 9, 2016 by thilipsis

[Heb 13:8]

All seals, trumpets and bowls are past..

1 Seal - Crown translated wreath...http://revelationtimelinedecoded.com/the-first-seal-of-revelation-6/
2 Seal - History lesson, symbolism...http://revelationtimelinedecoded.com/the-second-seal-of-revelation-6/
3 Seal - In those days, oil and wine...http://revelationtimelinedecoded.com/the-third-seal-of-revelation-6/
4 Seal - History lesson, symbolism...http://revelationtimelinedecoded.com/the-fourth-seal-of-revelation-6/
5 Seal - History lesson, symbolism...http://revelationtimelinedecoded.com/the-fifth-seal-of-revelation-6/
6 Seal - History lesson, symbolism...http://revelationtimelinedecoded.com/the-sixth-seal-of-revelation-6/
7 Seal - History lesson, symbolism...http://revelationtimelinedecoded.com/the-seventh-seal-of-revelation-8/

1 Trumpet - History lesson, symbolism...http://revelationtimelinedecoded.com/the-first-trumpet-of-revelation-8/
2 Trumpet - History lesson, symbolism...http://revelationtimelinedecoded.com/the-second-trumpet-of-revelation-8/
3 Trumpet - History lesson, symbolism...http://revelationtimelinedecoded.com/the-third-trumpet-of-revelation-8/
4 Trumpet - History lesson, symbolism...http://revelationtimelinedecoded.com/the-fourth-trumpet-of-revelation-8/
5 Trumpet - History lesson, symbolism...http://revelationtimelinedecoded.com/the-fifth-trumpet-of-revelation-9/
6 Trumpet - History lesson, symbolism...http://revelationtimelinedecoded.com/the-sixth-trumpet-of-revelation-9/
7 Trumpet - History lesson, symbolism...http://revelationtimelinedecoded.com/the-7th-trumpet-of-revelation-11/

1 Bowl - History lesson, symbolism...http://revelationtimelinedecoded.com/the-first-bowl-of-revelation-16/
2 Bowl - History lesson, symbolism...http://revelationtimelinedecoded.com/the-second-bowl-of-revelation-16/
3 Bowl - History lesson, symbolism...http://revelationtimelinedecoded.com/the-third-bowl-of-revelation-16/
4 Bowl - History lesson, symbolism...http://revelationtimelinedecoded.com/the-fourth-bowl-of-revelation-16/
5 Bowl - History lesson, symbolism...http://revelationtimelinedecoded.com/the-fifth-bowl-of-revelation-16/
6 Bowl - History lesson, symbolism...http://revelationtimelinedecoded.com/the-sixth-bowl-of-revelation-16/
7 Bowl - Future lesson, symbolism...http://revelationtimelinedecoded.com/revelation-16-7th-bowl-judgment/