Mohammedism Versus The Living God Of Israel

[Guest shiloh357]

Just now, RobertS said:

Correct, yet that is what knowingthetruth is doing. He either has to take all of scripture as God's word or none of it, but he keeps dancing around the issue.

Yes, if you can't accept the NT which is built on and amplifies the OT, then you have to reject both.   It's why it is impossible to be a true follower of Jesus and deny God's word.

[Knowingtruth]

17 hours ago, Yowm said:

I believe this violates the TOS of this site...

No “spamming” allowed. Spamming is flooding the forums, mass PMs or emailing multiple members of this forum with unsolicited messages. It also includes links in posts or Sigs to sites that sell or solicits funds. No solicitation of any form will be allowed.

Sorry, for that. I will be careful henceforth

[Knowingtruth]

14 hours ago, RobertS said:

Ah, so now Luke's account in Acts is not good enough? First Paul's own words, then Peter's and now Luke's? And Luke wrote the Gospel of Luke, but while His gospel and Jesus' words in it are good enough, the Book of Acts is not?

All you are doing is "moving the goalposts"; every time proof is given to you, you discount it and continue to claim no one can meet your challenge.

 

So, let's follow this "rabbit hole" to its' logical conclusion, and see where it leads us...

 

If you discount Acts, then you must discount Luke's gospel, as neither can be relied upon. Matthew was a tax collector, which was considered a traitor by the Jews; since he was considered worse than a Gentile, you must also discount his account as well.

Now we are down to two gospels.

Mark's gospel must then be removed by your claims because it is thought to be written from information from the Apostle Peter (whom you discounted already), so the Gospel of Mark goes! Now we have ONE gospel: John's. And now we must discount that one (along with his 3 letters and Revelation) due to the fact that there has been question raised about the authorship of the Gospel of John, which would cast doubt on the rest of his works.

No one can be sure of Hebrews because the author isn't listed, and since they are not "Jesus' words" that falls by the wayside, as does the Book of Jude.

 

So, in claiming Luke isn't good enough, you've successively removed book after book until there is nothing left of the New Testament.  You claim to "believe in Jesus' words?" And since Jesus' words aren't recorded in the OT (after all, John said Jesus was the Son of God and God, but John's work was discounted), you throw out the entire OT as well.

 

You end up removing every one, but it doesn't end there...

 

Since the whole Bible is now discounted and cannot be regarded as His word (it's been taken completely apart under your premise that Paul and Luke's words are not trustworthy), that also means the Qur'an cannot be relied upon either. Muhammad is said in the Qur'an to be illiterate:

"Surah 7:157: "Those who follow the apostle, the unlettered Prophet, whom they find mentioned in their own (scriptures), - in the law and the Gospel..."

That being the case, then the Qur'an could not have been written by him (who knows then who it's written by?)and thus is also unreliable, which eliminates Islam as a possibility. This also applies to Buddhism, as Buddha's words were only recorded after he died, as well as Hinduism, whose holy books (The Vedas), are said to have no author. So they cannot be trusted either and must also be discarded. Additionally, Taoism must then also be discarded, as the Tao Te Ching (Tao Holy Text) has dispute over who truly wrote it, and thus it cannot be relied upon.  Neither can Confucius' five texts "The Book of History," "The Book of Poetry," "The Book of Changes," "The Book of Rites," and the "Spring and Autumn Annals." due to the fact that they cannot be confirmed to have been written by Confucius either.

Since Judaism is based on the OT, that has to go with the others as well.

 

So now we're in the land of atheism (seeing as moving the goalposts has disqualified all the texts). We can only go by our 5 senses...or can we?

Sight has been proven to be unreliable (illusions, mirages, visual tricks and distortions), so we cannot trust our eyes.

Hearing also is unreliable, as it can be manipulated and distorted (sound effects in movies, echoes, the sound of jets following far after the planes,audio illusions etc.), so we cannot rely on that sense.

Taste can be manipulated chemically, as can the sense of Smell (done all the time in the Food Industry), so those two are off the list.

So, we are left with Touch; that can be fooled with "tactile illusions" (example: wearing a hat for a long time and taking it off, only to feel like you're still wearing it). So Touch is not reliable either and is disqualified.

 

The physical world is now discounted in its' entirely, as all the input that says it exists have been ruled out along the same guidelines previously used.

 

Continuing on, all you have left now is your mind. But, since we discounted the Bible, we also discounted the idea that we have a soul and spirit. That leaves us as only existing in our brains. But since we cannot trust now our 5 senses either, we do not know if we exist in any sense (physical or otherwise), or are just a figment in someone else's imagination. We have no standard now for our thoughts being our own, as for all we know, we might be someone's imagined "character" or even a simulated algorithm in some alien machine...

 

We cannot prove any of it; all means for doing so have been discredited, and we now are left with nothing.

 

All of that, just to get rid of Paul.

 

While all of this has been taken to the absurd extreme, it demonstrates what happens when you keep "moving the goalposts"; after a while, nothing becomes good enough. In this case, the "goalposts' ended up moving on their own down an ever-increasing slope until all reality unraveled. And that is the danger in not accepting the words of Scripture: where do you stop? What is "good enough" and what is not?

There are better reasons for discounting the other "holy texts" that are written, and at some point, we have to accept that the physical world and ourselves exist. And when examined and pout to the test, we accept that Scripture is the One true word of God and not able to be picked to pieces and re-arranged at our leisure. With that said: if you accept the OT, then you have to accept the NT. If you accept the 4 Gospels, then you also must accept Acts. If you accept Acts, then you accept that Luke called Paul an Apostle, and therefore the Pauline Epistles are also legitimate.

Scripture is not a piecemeal thing we can discount when parts do not meet our approval: we take all of it, or none of it. It serves as a mirror that reflects us as we truly are, and if we do not like what it says, it is not up to us to judge Scripture...

 

...it is we who are being judged by Scripture. All of Scripture is the word of God, and Jesus Christ is God and the Son of God.

 

 

The whole Bible is His story....

 

 

 

 

 

I don't discard any writings including apocryphal. We need to rely on the Holy Spirit who will remind of Jesus' words no matter who wrote it.

[Knowingtruth]

12 hours ago, Davida said:

 A "believer" can mean different things to some.  Do you actually call yourself a Christian?  Do you attend Church?  Who lead you to Christ? 

..because I know Muslims, Buddhists and  Hindus that can say they "believe in Jesus" i.e. that Jesus existed and they "believe" what they think he said-but they do not call themselves Christians.

Yes, more than being called a Christian, I claim myself to be a believer in Jesus Christ. I have taken adult immersion baptism in a Baptist church. Right now I am attending a non-denominational church.

[Knowingtruth]

11 hours ago, FresnoJoe said:

Dear One,

If people do not welcome you, leave their town and shake the dust off your feet as a testimony against them." Luke 9:5 (New International Version)

I Believe The Holy Spirit, A Beloved Insider

Then he said, “When I was with you before, I told you that everything written about me in the law of Moses and the prophets and in the Psalms must be fulfilled.” Then he opened their minds to understand the Scriptures.

And he said, “Yes, it was written long ago that the Messiah would suffer and die and rise from the dead on the third day. It was also written that this message would be proclaimed in the authority of his name to all the nations, beginning in Jerusalem: ‘There is forgiveness of sins for all who repent.’ You are witnesses of all these things.

“And now I will send the Holy Spirit, just as my Father promised. But stay here in the city until the Holy Spirit comes and fills you with power from heaven.” Luke 24:45-49

And The First Testament Of Jesus (OT)

“‘See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god beside me; I kill and I make alive; I wound and I heal; and there is none that can deliver out of my hand. For I lift up my hand to heaven and swear, As I live forever,

if I sharpen my flashing sword and my hand takes hold on judgment, I will take vengeance on my adversaries and will repay those who hate me. I will make my arrows drunk with blood, and my sword shall devour flesh — with the blood of the slain and the captives, from the long-haired Heads of the enemy.’

“Rejoice with him, O heavens; bow down to him, all gods, for he avenges the blood of his children and takes vengeance on his adversaries. He repays those who hate him and cleanses his people’s land.” Deuteronomy 32:39-43 (English Standard Version)

And The Second Testament (NT)

After this I heard a sound like the roar of a great multitude in heaven, shouting: “Hallelujah! Salvation and glory and power belong to our God! For His judgments are true and righteous; He has judged the great prostitute who corrupted the earth with her immorality, He has avenged the blood of His servants that was poured out by her hand.”

And a second time they called out: “Hallelujah! Her smoke ascends forever and ever.” And the twenty-four elders and the four living creatures fell down and worshiped God who sits on the throne, saying: “Amen, Hallelujah!”

Then a voice came from the throne, saying: “Praise our God, all you who serve Him, and those who fear Him, small and great alike!” Revelation 19:1-5 (Berean Study Bible)

So Why Can't You

For God loved the world in this way: so much that he would give up his Son, The Only One, so that everyone who trusts in him shall not be lost, but he shall have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world that he would condemn the world, but that he would give life to the world by him.

Whoever believes in him is not judged, and whoever does not believe is judged already, because he does not believe in The Name of The Only Begotten Son of God.

This is the judgment: The Light has come into the world and the children of men loved the darkness more than The Light, because their works were evil. For everyone who does what is hateful, hates The Light and does not come to The Light, lest his works should be convicted.

But he who does The Truth comes to The Light, so that his works may be revealed, that they are performed by God." John 3:16-21 (Aramaic Bible in Plain English)

Believe

~

Be Blessed

Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were making an appeal through us; we beg you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God. He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him. 2 Corinthians 5:20-21 (New American Standard Bible)

Beloved

The LORD bless thee, and keep thee:
The LORD make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee:
The LORD lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace.
And they shall put my name upon the children of Israel; and I will bless them. Numbers 6:24-27 (King James Bible)

Love, Your Brother Joe

~

Praying~!

LORD Jesus Bind The Mind Blinder
And Free The Islamic
And The Jew

For You Are Our Only Hope

I Love You LORD
I Love You

 ~

All your words are true; all your righteous laws are eternal. Psalms 119:160 (New International Version)

The Bible contains the mind of God, the state of man, the way of salvation, the doom of sinners, and the happiness of believers. Its doctrines are holy, its precepts are binding, its histories are true, and its decisions are immutable.

Read it to be wise, believe it to be safe, and practice it to be holy. It contains light to direct you, food to support you, and comfort to cheer you.
It is the traveler’s map, the pilgrim’s staff, the pilot’s compass, the soldier’s sword and the Christian’s charter. Here too, Heaven is opened and the gates of Hell disclosed.

Christ is its grand subject, our good its design, and the glory of God its end. It should fill the memory, rule the heart and guide the feet. Read it slowly, frequently and prayerfully.  It is a mine of wealth, a paradise of glory, and a river of pleasure.

It is given you in life, will be opened at the judgment, and be remembered forever. It involves the highest responsibility, rewards the greatest labor, and will condemn all who trifle with its sacred contents.

 From The Inside Of My Gideon New Testament

What if some writings contradict what Jesus taught? 

[Knowingtruth]

8 hours ago, FresnoJoe said:

Me

So then, dear friends, since you are looking forward to this,
make every effort to be found spotless, blameless and at peace with him.

Bear in mind that our Lord’s patience means salvation,
just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him.

He writes the same way in all his letters,
speaking in them of these matters.

His letters contain some things that are hard to understand,
which ignorant and unstable people distort,
as they do the other Scriptures,
to their own destruction. 2 Peter 3:14-16 (New International)Version

Too

I have come in My Father's name, and you have not received Me;
but if someone else comes in his own name, you will receive him. John 5:43 (Berean Study Bible)

The  word 'God' inserted by modern translators. Here is KJV: 2 Peter 3: 15    And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;

People don't receive Jesus and His words, instead they want to receive Paul who came up with his own title of apostleship because his epistles help in fabricating convenient concepts.

[Knowingtruth]

1 hour ago, shiloh357 said:

The Bible says that all Scripture is inspired by God.  The Holy Spirit is the one who guided the authors of the New Testament.   The teachings of Paul compliment and are based on teachings of Jesus.  All of the New Testament is God's word.   A person who rejects the New Testament cannot claim to be a follower of Jesus.

The canon came into existence several centuries after Jesus' resurrection. So according  to you, all those early believers and disciples go to hell then!

[Knowingtruth]

1 hour ago, RobertS said:

Yet he wrote His words in the Gospel, which you discounted (Even though your own words were "Luke can be trusted more than Paul). And in discounting Acts and the Gospel of Luke, you also discount the rest of scripture.

Either all of the Bible is God's word or none of it.

Choose.

That is your generalized assumption. My yardstick is Jesus' words.

[Guest shiloh357]

7 hours ago, Knowingtruth said:

The canon came into existence several centuries after Jesus' resurrection. So according  to you, all those early believers and disciples go to hell then!

The canon always existed.  The Church did not decide what the canon would be.  The correct books for the canon were discovered by the Church.  

But why should that matter you?  You don't believe the Bible, anyway.

[Guest shiloh357]

7 hours ago, Knowingtruth said:

That is your generalized assumption. My yardstick is Jesus' words.

Sorry, but you don't appear to even believe Jesus' words.  You may claim to, but your posts don't reflect the attitude of a true follower of Jesus.