Defense for the Mass-Transit System Rapture

[Omegaman 3.0]

59 minutes ago, Cobalt1959 said:

If you accept the Bible plainly, at it's word, everything that occurs after the 6th seal is opened is God's wrath.  There is no credible debate otherwise.

Funny, I just posted debate, and I think it is credible. I provided Bible text, I kept them in context, I showed why they mean what I showed they mean.  I did not just merely claim a position, and then say others lack credibility. I gave specific facts that can be knocked down if the points are not valid, someone just needs to demonstrate how what I said, is logically inconsistent, or that the scripture was misrepresented, or that they were out of the contexts, or that they mean something other that what their substance says in ordinary language. 

I won't hold my breath waiting.

You say:

You din't actually deal with what I said.  You basically equated my disagreement with your view as having low comprehension skills, and you do the exact same thing above.  Is that a valid argument?

How amusing is that?

I did not deal with what you said, because I did not see that you actually said anything that needed addressing! Is it a valid argument? No, that would not be. However I did not even provide an argument valid or otherwise. It is merely a possible explanation of what anyone reading can observe to be the case. So far, what I have said there, no one, you included, has attempted to refute, you merely deny without an explanation. 

You say:

This is always the defense of last resort.  Someone does not agree with your view, so they just don't "get it."  Is this really a valid defense?

And yet, that is what you just did, no reply on substance, you merely stated that I reacted just because I disagree with your view!

First off, I never even challenged your view, I do not even know what it is. So, it is difficult for me to address my failures, in an attempt that I never even made? Where does that come from?

Thanks for formerly at least having some respect for me, it is nice to have, but I do not require it, and am not going to make it my greatest concern when I think the topic is more important than worrying about the respect of others, who perceive me as disagreeing with them.

You said also:

because your behavior is often unacceptable.  The above statement is an example of that.

Well, I encourage you to report my content to the powers that be here. If they are unacceptable they should be dealt with as such. You should be able to find a "report this" button, provided for that purpose. 

Be sure to include specifically, the things you feel are unacceptable.

What is defense of last resort? I do not know. However, I am looking for others to provide defenses of any resort. Free free to refute me, please do not resort to merely criticizing what you do not like.

Edited September 20, 2016 by Omegaman 3.0
spelling correction

[Omegaman 3.0]

Okay, I have diverted enough time time on this topic, all starting from a comment about a comment, and as happens, things can grow in detail. I do not want to get too caught up in these small potatoes, so I am not going to be paying a lot of attention to this thread. However, if someone makes a comment or a reply that they want me to address, I might do so, but send me a message calling my attention to that. Thanks all!

[missmuffet]

13 minutes ago, Cobalt1959 said:

So . . . you are incapable of behaving poorly?

I think I will return to my original posture of avoiding end-times threads like the plague because they are rarely constructive and never fruitful.

Not constructive? Absolutely just arguments over who is right and who is wrong.

[Marcus O'Reillius]

4 hours ago, Cobalt1959 said:

If you accept the Bible plainly, at it's word, everything that occurs after the 6th seal is opened is God's wrath.  There is no credible debate otherwise.  One can argue that the first 5 seals are not necessarily God's wrath because nowhere before the 6th seal is that wrath clearly stated, but after the 6th seal is opened that option is no longer available.  Everything after that is God's direct wrath. 

No credible debate?

Who is it that declares God's Wrath has come?

What evidence for God's Wrath coming in the way of physical desolations are there beside their testimony?

Considering who it is that declares it is coming, how much of an expert are they on God?

Do they indeed "get" God right at this time?

Or do they miss the mark yet again?

[Guest 1Th417]

6 hours ago, missmuffet said:

Not constructive? Absolutely just arguments over who is right and who is wrong.

Interesting. Some might think that people are commenting on what is correct, and what is error, while noting that there are diverse opinions. I do not see just arguments over who is right or wrong, the who does not always become a factor.

Since you categorize posts in this manner, people arguing over who is right, and who is wrong, I cannot help but notice how often you speak up in this topic, and declare what you think, so does that make you one of those who argues over who is right and who is wrong?

There is a wealth of discussion on these forums on these topics. I have learned a lot from them. I think that is very constructive. People who do not think they are, might be better off reading about baking recipes or something, not subjecting themselves to non-constructive arguing, no one makes anyone read topics that have no value to them.

[Guest Robert]

7 hours ago, Cobalt1959 said:

I think I will return to my original posture of avoiding end-times threads like the plague because they are rarely constructive and never fruitful.

I think I'll join you on that Cobalt; I'm probably better off withholding what I would have to say on many things.

Edited September 20, 2016 by RobertS

[FresnoJoe]

15 hours ago, Cobalt1959 said:

So....
 you are incapable of behaving poorly....

I think I will return to my original posture of avoiding end-times threads....
like the plague because they are rarely constructive and never fruitful....

Jesus Will

" 'You have always been an enemy of Israel. You deserted the people of Israel in battle when they were in trouble during their final punishment. That is why, as I live, declares the Almighty LORD, I will let you be murdered. Murderers will pursue you. Since you don't hate murdering people, murder will pursue you. I will turn Mount Seir into a barren wasteland, and I will destroy everyone who comes or goes from there. I will fill your mountains with those who have been killed. Those killed in battle will fall on your hills and in your valleys and ravines. I will turn you into a permanent wasteland. Your cities will not be lived in. Then you will know that I am the LORD. Ezekiel 35:5-9 (GOD'S WORD® Translation)

Defeat The Enemy

" 'You said, "These two nations, Israel and Judah, along with their land, belong to us. We will take possession of them." But the LORD was there. That is why, as I live, declares the Almighty LORD, I will do to you what you did to them. When you were angry and jealous, you acted hatefully toward them. Then you will know that I, the LORD, heard all the insults that you spoke about the mountains of Israel. You said, "They have been deserted and handed over to us to use up." You bragged and continually talked against me. I heard you. " 'This is what the Almighty LORD says: The whole earth will be glad when I turn you into a wasteland. You were happy when the land of Israel became a wasteland. I will do the same thing to you. You will become a wasteland, Mount Seir, and so will all of Edom. Then you will know that I am the LORD.' Ezekiel 35:10-15 (GOD'S WORD® Translation)

And We Will Witness His Nib's Fall

The God of peace will soon crush Satan under your feet. The grace of our Lord Jesus be with you. Romans 16:20 (New International Version)

~

I Have Never Read A Book
Nor Have I Ever Seen The Movie
That Matches The Holy Words Of God
For It's Drama, It's Action And For It's Truth

God, having spoken long ago to our fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways, in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, and through whom He made the ages, who, being the radiance of His glory and the exact expression of His substance, and upholding all things by the power of His word, through having made the purification of sins, sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, having become by so much superior to the angels, as much as He has inherited a name more excellent beyond theirs.

For to which of the angels did He ever say: “You are my Son; today I have begotten You”?

And again: “I will be to Him for a Father, and He will be to Me for a Son”?

And again, when He brings the Firstborn into the world, He says: “And let all God’s angels worship Him.” And indeed as to the angels He says: “The One making His angels winds, and His ministers a flame of fire.”

But unto the Son: “Your throne, O God, is to the age of the age, and the scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.

You have loved righteousness and have hated wickedness; because of this, God, Your God, has anointed You with the oil of exultation above Your companions.”

And: “You, Lord, laid the foundation of the earth in the beginning, and the heavens are works of Your hands. They will perish but You remain; and all will grow old like a garment; and like a robe You will roll them up, and like a garment they will be changed; but You are the same, and Your years will never end.”

Now to which of the angels did He ever say: “Sit at My right hand, until I may place Your enemies as a footstool for Your feet”? Are they not all ministering spirits, being sent forth for service for the sake of those being about to inherit salvation? Hebrews 1 (Berean Literal Bible)

My God IS Greatest~!

Worthy are you, our Lord and God, to receive glory and honor and power, for you created all things, and by your will they existed and were created.” Revelation 4:11

Bless His Holy Name

~

Be Blessed Beloved Of The KING

The LORD bless thee, and keep thee:
The LORD make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee:
The LORD lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace.

And they shall put my name upon the children of Israel; and I will bless them. Numbers 6:24-27 (King James Bible)

Love, Your Brother Joe

~

All your words are true; all your righteous laws are eternal. Psalms 119:160 (New International Version)

The Bible contains the mind of God, the state of man, the way of salvation, the doom of sinners, and the happiness of believers. Its doctrines are holy, its precepts are binding, its histories are true, and its decisions are immutable.

Read it to be wise, believe it to be safe, and practice it to be holy. It contains light to direct you, food to support you, and comfort to cheer you.

It is the traveler’s map, the pilgrim’s staff, the pilot’s compass, the soldier’s sword and the Christian’s charter. Here too, Heaven is opened and the gates of Hell disclosed.

Christ is its grand subject, our good its design, and the glory of God its end. It should fill the memory, rule the heart and guide the feet. Read it slowly, frequently and prayerfully.  It is a mine of wealth, a paradise of glory, and a river of pleasure.

It is given you in life, will be opened at the judgment, and be remembered forever. It involves the highest responsibility, rewards the greatest labor, and will condemn all who trifle with its sacred contents.

From The Inside Of My Gideon New Testament

[missmuffet]

9 hours ago, Toofrednu said:

Interesting. Some might think that people are commenting on what is correct, and what is error, while noting that there are diverse opinions. I do not see just arguments over who is right or wrong, the who does not always become a factor.

Since you categorize posts in this manner, people arguing over who is right, and who is wrong, I cannot help but notice how often you speak up in this topic, and declare what you think, so does that make you one of those who argues over who is right and who is wrong?

There is a wealth of discussion on these forums on these topics. I have learned a lot from them. I think that is very constructive. People who do not think they are, might be better off reading about baking recipes or something, not subjecting themselves to non-constructive arguing, no one makes anyone read topics that have no value to them.

Arguing over the belief of pre-trib,mid-trib or post-trib is a waste of time. It is not something we should divide over. Time will tell.

[WilliamL]

17 hours ago, Omegaman 3.0 said:

There is a pattern among many pre-trib rapture advocates, of making assumptions, presumptions, inferences, conclusions, what ever you want to call them, and then redefining things to be equal to each other.I have seen it claimed, that the tribulation is equal to God's wrath. I have seen it claimed, that the tribulation is 7 years long. I have seen a lot of things like this, but I have never seen anyone offer scriptural proof of these claims.

Agreed, there are a lot of presumptions being posted that are not supported by at least 2 witness of scripture -- by pre-tribbers and non-pretribbers alike.

17 hours ago, Omegaman 3.0 said:

Our idea of the so called "great tribulation" comes from this discourse by Jesus. It is not equated to a specific period of time, but it is given as one thing in a sequence of events, that occur with a specific marker event within the period of time that Daniel described. Daniel speaks to a week of years (7 years). This abomination of desolation is in the middle of those 7 years. So (according to Jesus) at that point IN time, there will occur a great tribulation. So, there is nothing ambiguous here, in the middle of Daniels 70th week, an abomination will be SEEN. At THAT time, we can expect a great tribulation, and it is not (here at least) equated with any wrath of God.

Above is an example of such an unsupported presumption. You have not provided, nor can provide, two biblical witnesses that say there is a specific 7-year period in the End Times in which the Abomination of Desolation will takes place.

Jesus did not mention a 7-year period at all: you have presumed he referred to Daniel 9:26-27, but the term "abomination of desolation" is not used there in the Hebrew. It is used in Dan. 12:11, which passage also mentions no 7-year period. That passage only mentions a 3 1/2 year period (plus add-ons). That same-length period is likewise spoken of in the Book of Revelation, which likewise mentions no 7-year period.

[Last Daze]

24 minutes ago, missmuffet said:

Arguing over the belief of pre-trib,mid-trib or post-trib is a waste of time. It is not something we should divide over. Time will tell.

Arguing may be a waste of time but discussions where the truth is sought are not a waste.  I'm thankful for those who patiently expounded on the Word and showed me how baseless the pretrib fallacy is.  Even so, its our faith that will sustain us, not our eschatology.