Creeping anti-Semitism

[ayin jade]

6 minutes ago, Ezra said:

Since English has become the language of the world, worshiping in Hebrews automatically excludes 99% (or more) of Christians from participating.  So it effectively isolates Messianics.

No it doesnt. It isnt exclusively in hebrew. What little is in hebrew is understandable as the translation is right there. I have felt more welcome and had more worship in different Messianic congregations than in most other churches. One exception is a navajo church. And they have part of it in navajo which I also dont speak lol. 

I am curious. Have you ever been to a Messianic church?

[Ezra]

7 hours ago, Yowm said:

There are services in Japanese, Korean, Spanish...what's the big deal if some want a service in Hebrew?

Because it is not a foreign language issue.  It is a theological issue.

[Ezra]

9 hours ago, ayin jade said:

I am curious. Have you ever been to a Messianic church?

No, and I don't believe I would.  Their theology is off.

[ayin jade]

nm

[nebula]

On 8/30/2016 at 0:43 PM, Ezra said:

The point is not whether they invite Gentile believers.  The point is that they set up separate congregations to promote their teachings (which include Torah observance) but do not join existing churches. Please note:

Should Jews really attempt to assimilate into churches and forego their Jewish identity when they choose to put their faith in the Jewish Messiah? Messianic Judaism answers, "No!" As Yeshua Himself embraced His Jewishness, Messianic Jews seek to embrace theirs, by meeting in congregational communities with other Jewish believers and by maintaining a Biblically Jewish expression of their faith. Every congregation is different, but this expression often means worshiping in Hebrew, following Mosaic Law, dancing as King David did before the Lord, and keeping Biblical holidays such as Pesach, Sukkot, or Shavuot.

http://www.mjaa.org/site/PageServer?pagename=rd_messianicmovement_messianic_judaism

The New Testament does not encourage this at all. Paul made it clear that sabbath days and holy days were but shadows, and that the Old Covenant was obsolete.  So these are major theological changes.

Since the link doesn't work, I am unable to read the context of this. It could very well be a reaction to so many Gentile Christians who over the centuries demanded that Jews give up their Jewishness in order to follow Jesus.

Are you against Jews worshiping the God of their fathers and Messiah Yeshua in the fashion of their Jewish heritage?

I attended a few Messianic congregations where they did sing and pray in Hebrew, but the English translations were written with the phonetically-written Hebrew words so that non-Hebrew speakers could join in. To me it was no different than singing the praise and worship songs sung in Hebrew.

[Ezra]

1 hour ago, nebula said:

Since the link doesn't work, I am unable to read the context of this. It could very well be a reaction to so many Gentile Christians who over the centuries demanded that Jews give up their Jewishness in order to follow Jesus.

Just enter www.mjaa.org and then search internally.   What they are saying basically is because of past Anti-Semitism, they must now isolate themselves.  However, Scripture does not give them this excuse.

1 hour ago, nebula said:

Are you against Jews worshiping the God of their fathers and Messiah Yeshua in the fashion of their Jewish heritage?

Well this is the core of the issue. Following His rejection by Israel and following His crucifixion and ascension, the Lord Jesus Christ moved from "Jewish Messiah" to "Savior of the world" (Acts 1:8). Eventually even Paul turned away from the Jews altogether because of their own wilful blindness (Acts 28:28).

Since He was REJECTED as the Jewish Messiah, there is no going back to that position.  He is now the Lord Jesus Christ, not Yeshua ha Maschiach (notice that the word "Lord" -- which is extremely significant -- is missing). 

Also, the wall of separation between Jew and Gentile was torn down at the Cross, and the New Covenant replaced the Old Covenant.  The epistle to the Hebrews is there to teach Jewish Christians that there is no going back to Moses.

[nebula]

On 9/2/2016 at 10:11 PM, Ezra said:

Well this is the core of the issue. Following His rejection by Israel and following His crucifixion and ascension, the Lord Jesus Christ moved from "Jewish Messiah" to "Savior of the world" (Acts 1:8). Eventually even Paul turned away from the Jews altogether because of their own wilful blindness (Acts 28:28).

Since He was REJECTED as the Jewish Messiah, there is no going back to that position.  He is now the Lord Jesus Christ, not Yeshua ha Maschiach (notice that the word "Lord" -- which is extremely significant -- is missing). 

Also, the wall of separation between Jew and Gentile was torn down at the Cross, and the New Covenant replaced the Old Covenant.  The epistle to the Hebrews is there to teach Jewish Christians that there is no going back to Moses.

I thought that might be your perspective on things.

I disagree that Jesus ever stopped being the "Jewish Messiah." In fact, there are two Messianic roles Messiah fulfills - one as "the Suffering Servant" and one as "the Conquering King." So far, Jesus has fulfilled only one of those roles. The second is yet to come. Since the prophecies concerning Messiah are not yet fulfilled, how could Jesus no longer be Messiah?

Second, since when did Jesus only have one title?

And by the way, "Christ" and "Messiah" are the exact same word - as Cristos is the Greek translation of Maschiach.

While the Sinai Covenant was brought to an end with the death and resurrection of Jesus, the Abrahamic Covenant was not. That one is "an everlasting covenant."

Paul did not turn away from the Jews altogether. He turned away from the Jews in Corinth, but after he left Corinth, "They arrived at Ephesus, where Paul left Priscilla and Aquila. He himself went into the synagogue and reasoned with the Jews." (Acts 18:19). If Paul rejected the Jews altogether, why did he still go to a synagogue?

[Ezra]

7 hours ago, nebula said:

And by the way, "Christ" and "Messiah" are the exact same word - as Cristos is the Greek translation of Maschiach.

And that is not what was being addressed.  Where is the word "Lord"?  Jesus is now the Lord Jesus Christ, and it is by believing on the LORD Jesus Christ that sinners are saved (Acts 16:31).  Do you understand the significance?

When the Lord Jesus Christ returns to earth, He does NOT return as the Jewish Messiah but as KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS (Rev. 19:16).  So once again you are not following Scripture. While He will also come as the Deliverer of the Jews, His Kingdom will be a universal kingdom on earth (Dan 7:13,14).

What is not being recognized or stated is that at present Messianic Jews are sinning against the Savior by isolating themselves into Jewish congregations, and also reverting back to Moses (Torah observance).  The Church of Christ does not allow for such segregation.

[Ezra]

Getting back to "Anti-Semitism", Christians should be aware that this accusation is frequently used to suppress any attempt at understanding or exposing the Satanic conspiracy fostered by a handful of atheistic, internationalistic Jews at the top (for the last 400 years or so) to further the Illuminati agenda (destroy legitimate governments, nations, private property, and religion).

Today George Soros, a Hungarian Jew, is at the forefront of subverting nations with his billions, and working towards a Super-State (using the United Nations as his tool). He has said that he thinks of himself as "a god". This is a preview of the Antichrist (who must of necessity be a Jew), who will literally claim to be God. There are others, such as the Rothschilds, etc. who are all in the same conspiracy.

Most people are not aware that the Bolshevik Revolution was funded by these same conspirators, and in fact the majority of those who were part of that revolution were Russian Jews.

[Flsnookman]

2 hours ago, Ezra said:

Getting back to "Anti-Semitism", Christians should be aware that this accusation is frequently used to suppress any attempt at understanding or exposing the Satanic conspiracy fostered by a handful of atheistic, internationalistic Jews at the top (for the last 400 years or so) to further the Illuminati agenda (destroy legitimate governments, nations, private property, and religion).

Today George Soros, a Hungarian Jew, is at the forefront of subverting nations with his billions, and working towards a Super-State (using the United Nations as his tool). He has said that he thinks of himself as "a god". This is a preview of the Antichrist (who must of necessity be a Jew), who will literally claim to be God. There are others, such as the Rothschilds, etc. who are all in the same conspiracy.

Most people are not aware that the Bolshevik Revolution was funded by these same conspirators, and in fact the majority of those who were part of that revolution were Russian Jews.

The illuminati.....really?  WOW.