Our mortal enemy has deceived the church with many lies!

[woundeddog]

40 minutes ago, Judas Machabeus said:

That is a serious gamble you are taking

no Gamble- just trusting in the Risen savior only- an organizational church can not save you- Only the risen Son of God can-- It is not a theology that was created 500 years ago, it was a theology that was recovered 500 years ago from the dirt that the Catholic church buried it in. the Bible is so simple to understand- It doesn't not require the twisted theology of Jesuits and the like to understand it-- that is why your church was so resistant to the Bible being published in the common language of the people--History shows the early translators where hounded, harassed, persecuted, and even burned at the stake for bringing the Bible to the common man-- What kind of apostolic tradition is that? That maybe the tradition that the unsaved Saul used when he persecuted and murdered the early church because they withdrew from the old tradition of having to rely on a man priest to reconcile them to God. To deny the word of God to the lost sheep??? your church "fathers" knew that if the common man could read it, Gods truths would be self evident allowing them to cast of the chains slavery to pagan doctrine and control of a handful of ungodly manipulators of the human soul. your "magisterium" is nothing more than a rebranding of the old Pharisee and Scribe system that Jesus rejected-  the only difference is they don't have blue tasseled borders on their robes and fishmouthhats. I am sorry- although I believe that there are Catholics that have come to true faith and are part of the family of God through Christ-- the Organized Catholic church preaches the wide road to hell- and will be judged harshly in the final accounting

[Guest Judas Machabeus]

Woundeddog, 

youve been indoctrinated. Many of your views are simple not based on facts purely properganda that has been perpetuated by generations of anti-catholic pastors.

[ZacharyB]

17 hours ago, Judas Machabeus said:

Acts 2:38

And Peter said to them,

" Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the

name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins;

and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

 

"The gift of the Holy Spirit" that Peter was talking about was

referring to the experience of the 120 on the Day of Pentecost.

These blessed ones were born again with the Holy Spirit coming INSIDE,

and they were baptized with the Holy Spirit when He came UPON them.

Even today, some believers receive the Holy Spirit BOTH ways simultaneously.

 

The Holy Spirit comes UPON true believers

when they are "baptized with the Holy Spirit"

(Jesus gives this anointing for special ministry)

I believe there are 7 UPON verses, and no more!

Luke 24:49 ---- UPON, promise, power

Acts 1:4-8 ---- UPON, promise, baptism, power

Acts 2:1-4 --- UPON, filled, tongues

Acts 8:14-19 - UPON, hands, received, power

Acts 10:44-48 - UPON, gift, received, tongues

Acts 11:15-17 – UPON, gift, baptism

Acts 19:5-6 --- UPON, hands, tongues

Explanation of terms used in the 7 UPON verses:

promise -- the promise of the Holy Spirit

gift -- the gift of the Holy Spirit

baptism -- the baptism with the Holy Spirit

filled -- people were filled with the Holy Spirit

tongues -- speaking in tongues occurred

hands -- the laying on of hands was utilized

received -- the Holy Spirit was received

power -- spiritual power was in evidence

Edited October 9, 2016 by ZacharyB

[ZacharyB]

2 hours ago, Judas Machabeus said:

I would encourage you too look up a couple guys, Scott Hahn and David Anders.

Both brillant men. 

Gaining spiritual Truth has absolutely nothing to do with

intelligence, education, logic, reasoning, etc.

It comes via the Holy Spirit revealing what the Holy Scriptures mean.

And, of course, to benefit from this dynamic God-combo requires

a completely open mind and heart, free of pre-conceived biases, etc.

Edited October 9, 2016 by ZacharyB

[Guest Judas Machabeus]

21 minutes ago, ZacharyB said:

"The gift of the Holy Spirit" that Peter was talking about was

referring to the experience of the 120 on the Day of Pentecost.

I'm not sure I agree with you. Because in verse 41 it says Those who received his word were baptized. The verses preceding v38 is a sermon that Peter was giving on Jesus being the Messiah.

Acts 2:41-42

41 So those who received his word were baptized, and there were added that day about three thousand souls.
42 And they held steadfastly to the apostles' teaching and fellowship, to the breaking of the bread and to the prayers.

[Guest Judas Machabeus]

15 minutes ago, ZacharyB said:

Gaining spiritual Truth has absolutely nothing to do with

intelligence, education, logic, reasoning, etc.

I complete disagree, And so does scripture  

Acts 8:30-31

30 So Philip ran to him, and heard him reading Isaiah the prophet, and asked, "Do you understand what you are reading?"
31 And he said, "How can I, unless some one guides me?" And he invited Philip to come up and sit with him.

20 minutes ago, ZacharyB said:

It comes via the Holy Spirit revealing what the Holy Scriptures mean.

This is why there are thousands of Protestant denominations.  How thousands of denominations be lead by the same spirit and have such great disunity. 

[kwikphilly]

Quote

32 minutes ago, ZacharyB said:

Gaining spiritual Truth has absolutely nothing to do with

intelligence, education, logic, reasoning, etc.

agreed Zack.......I often say that Intellect hinders Wisdom,Wisdom by REvelation of Holy Spirit      Spiritual Truth is just that-" spiritual"   Whereas anything to do with the carnal mind ,emotions,intellect,academics has no bearing in that......

[ZacharyB]

On ‎10‎/‎9‎/‎2016 at 8:51 AM, Judas Machabeus said:

Acts 8:30-31

30 So Philip ran to him, and heard him reading Isaiah the prophet, and asked, "Do you understand what you are reading?"
31 And he said, "How can I, unless some one guides me?" And he invited Philip to come up and sit with him.

Okay, but the teachers must receive their spiritual Truth from God.

Ditto for the Christian denominations.

Someone recently was (supposedly) told by Jesus that

some prophecies have been coming from God,

some prophecies have been coming from Satan,

some prophecies have been coming from man's flesh.

 

[Guest Judas Machabeus]

8 hours ago, ZacharyB said:

Okay, but the teachers must receive their spiritual Truth from God.

I absolutely agree. The apostles taught and appointed teachers. They also charged those teachers to pass the truth that was given to them, to others and so on and so forth. 

Therefore we should look at where our teachers get their truth from. Is it the truth from teachers that can trace thier truth all the way back to the apostles.

Or can they only trace it back to Luther, Calvin or Zwingli?

[RustyAngeL]

On 10/8/2016 at 4:55 PM, Judas Machabeus said:

Jesus is the way and the truth and he says:

John 3:5

5 Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 

He gives us the way!!

And through the Holy Spirit it's also said:

1 Peter 3:21

21 Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a clear conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

He gives us the truth!!

1 Corinthians 12:12-13

12 For just as the body is one and has many members, and all the members of the body, though many, are one body, so it is with Christ. 
13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body-Jews or Greeks, slaves or free-and all were made to drink of one Spirit. 

And through baptism we join the body of Christ and therefore through him we are saved  

 

As for your question, that's a management question you would have to ask God. He clearly lays out what is epected of us, and that's to join the body of Christ through baptism.  

It may fall under invincible ignorance 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invincible_ignorance_(Catholic_theology)

Invincible ignorance (Catholic theology)

Not to be confused with Vincible ignorance or Invincible ignorance fallacy.

The term "invincible ignorance" has its roots in Catholic theology, where — as the opposite of the term vincible ignorance — it is used to refer to the state of persons (such as pagans and infants) who are ignorant of the Christian message because they have not yet had an opportunity to hear it. The first Pope to use the term officially seems to have been Pope Pius IX in the allocution Singulari Quadam (9 December 1854) and the encyclicals Singulari Quidem (17 March 1856) and Quanto Conficiamur Moerore (10 August 1863). The term, however, is far older than that. Aquinas, for instance, uses it in his Summa Theologica (written 1265–1274),^[1] and discussion of the concept can be found as far back as Origen (3rd century).

 

Well I believe that person is with the Lord.  It is not about what we do but about what Jesus DID!  "It is finished"  God said this I didn't.