Genesis 6:1-4; The Sons of God ...

[SavedOnebyGrace]

2 minutes ago, Hippy said:

The Nephilim ( Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown. ) are the one's who made it through the flood and their offspring who lived a very long time before God's command that the flesh only live 120 years. Since then no flesh will live beyond 120 years during this first generation of people. 

That is an error in understanding what is plainly stated in Holy Scripture.  In fact, you've made several errors in those two sentences.

[SavedOnebyGrace]

4 minutes ago, Hippy said:

According to your opinion it's in error. According to God who had his prophet write those words, only He knows what really happened back then. 

Then we have nothing to talk about and I can Ignore you.  Ba-bye.

[Quasar93]

On ‎9‎/‎19‎/‎2016 at 10:42 AM, Saved.One.by.Grace said:

 

This is a passage of scripture I've been interested in since I first became a born-again believer.  I stumbled on the website linked below while searching about something else.  The questions at the end of the topic answered by the author John Tors with the signature "Saved.by.Grace" are mine.  I found John Tors' article and website most interesting, although he hasn't convinced me that the Nephilim were not the result of a fallen angelic attempt at contaminating the bloodline of the future Messiah.

There are four sections of analysis.  The first section linked below can be used to link to the other three sections.

Truth in My Days: Genesis 6:1-4 Discussion

I believe a proper understanding of Scripture is essential to knowing God's will and purpose.  We must understand the Bible in context, and not make it conform to our preconceived ideas.

 

About the sons of God, the Nephilim and demons:

 

First of all, demons are not fallen angels,

In the second place, where did the sons of God, come from ?

With that having been determined, the sons of God, are spirit beings, as is God and the angels. 

"When men began to increase in number on the earth and daughters were born to them the sons of God saw that the daughters of men were beautiful, and they married any of them they chose." Gen.6:1-2. Keep in mind, Jesus inferred angels do not marry nor are given in marriag - in heaven - according to Mt.22:30.

In other words, these sons of God left their first estate and citizenship in heaven, and went to the earth, with the power to become visible and appear as any physical normal man and married a daughter of human men.  The offspring they had with human women, resulting in their children being the Nephilim/giants, born to them as recorded in Gen.6:4.
 
Take note of this important fact: The Nephilim were hybrid regarding the origin of their first estate or "citizenship," because they did not come as a citizen from heaven, nor as a natural human being, which is what this thread is all about.

Up to this point, we have found that the sons of God/fallen angels, who came down to the earth from heaven, and had children by human women, who then lost their first estate in heaven.  God then imprisoned them until the day of judgement, according to 1 Pet.2:4 and Jude 6.
 
The fallen angels here, were only part of those belonging to Satan, who is still very active with the rest of his angels.  Reference to Satan and his angels being cast from heaven, is prophecy, as recorded in Rev.12:9, yet to come, during the 70th and final week [7 years] of God's decree upon the destiny of Israel. Also recorded as Jesus Olivet Discourse of the 7 year tribulation, in Mt.24; Mk.13 and in Lk.21.  Prophecy yet to be fulfilled.
 
That leaves us with the hybrid Nephilim, described in the Scriptures as giants both before the flood of Noah in Gen.6:4 - and after the flood in Num.13:33; Dt.1:28; 3:11; 9:2; Josh.11:22; 12:2, 4; 1 Sam17:4-7 and 1 Chr.20:6-8.
 
How could the Nephilim, the giants who lived before the flood of Noah be present on the earth after the flood, as recorded in Gen.6:4, when the flood killed everyone on the earth except Noah and his seven family members?  The only logical answers to that is that all the sons of God/fallen angels were not all caught and thrown into the Abyss/prison until after the flood of Noah.  That more of Satan's sons of God/angels sought after the daughters of men/human women, after the flood of Noah.
 
Remember, the hybrid Nephilim had no previous estate, "citizenship," with either the heavenly host or to humanity. Therefore, their spirit/souls were relegated to remain earthbound until the day of judgement, seeking to get into whatever body they could find to do so, regardless of whether human or animal, as recorded in Lk.8:26-33. That is what/who the demons were/are.
 
The Book of Isaiah says that the Nephilim and their descendants will not participate in a resurrection, as will all normal human beings. Isaiah 26:14 reads: "They are dead, they shall not live; they are deceased, they shall not rise." The original Hebrew word translated "deceased" here is the word "Rephaim," the name of a giant people, recorded in Jos.12:4 and in 13:12. It would have saved a lot of misinterpretation if the translators had left the word as it was in the original. The verse actually reads: "Dead, they shall not live; Rephaim, they shall not rise." The Rephaim were one of the clan of the Nephilim, and God's Word makes it clear that they will not participate in any resurrection. But with humans it is different: who will all be resurrected either to life or to damnation (John 5:28-29). Which leads us to examine the bodily death of the Nephilim, and the "binding to earth" of their spirits, seeking the bodies of others to invade, as the demons found recorded in the Scriptures, which will be covered later.

From Book 1 of Enoch, is the following except from Chapter 15, he writes of the Nephilim/giants, beginning with point 6.: "But you from the beginning were made spiritual, possessing a life which is eternal, and not subject to death for ever!"

7. "Therefore I made no wives for you, because you being spiritual, your dwelling is in heaven."

8. "Now the giants who have been born of spirit and flesh, shall be called upon the earth evil spirit/demons, and on the earth shall be their habitation. Evil spirits shall proceed from their flesh, because they were created from above; from the holy watchers/sons of God was their beginning and primary foundation. Evil spirits/demons shall they be upon the earth, and the spirits/demons of the wicked shall they be called. The habitation of the spirits of heaven shall be in heaven; but upon earth shall be the habitation of terrestrial spirits, who are born on earth."

9. "The spirits of the Nephilim/giants shall be like clouds, which shall oppress, corrupt, fall, contend, and bruise upon the earth."

10. "They shall cause lamentation. No food shall they eat; and they shall be thirsty; they shall be concealed, and shall not rise up against the sons of men, and against women; for they came forth during the days of slaughter and destruction."
 
Accordingly, the bodies of the Nephilim died, but their spirit/souls remain on earth as the evil spirit/demons present during the days of Jesus, as seen in 8:28-32. Without bodies, they try to find bodies to get into.
 
 How big does the Bible describe these Nephilim/giants to be after their spirit/souls found bodies to live in after the flood of Noah ?
 
"Only Og king of Bashan was left of the remnant of the Rephaites. His bed was made of iron and was more than thirteen feet long and six feet wide. It is still in Rabbah of the Ammonites." Dt.3:11
 
"A champion named Goliath, who was from Gath, came out of the Philistine camp, he was over nine feet tall. He had a bronze helmet on his head and wore a coat of scale armor of bronze weighing 5,000 shekels [over 156 pounds]; on his legs he wore bronze greaves, and a bronze javelin was slung on his back. His spear shaft was like a weaver's rod, and its iron point weighed six hundred shekels [18.75 pounds]. His shield bearer went ahead of him." 1 Sam.17:4-7

 

http://deeperwalk.lefora.com/topic/4073655/SONS-GOD-DAUGHTERS-MEN-NEPHILIM-ORIGIN-DEMONS#.WErSS-QzVpy

See also: http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/giants.htm

And: http://www.bibleprobe.com/nephilim.htm

 

Quasar93

[SavedOnebyGrace]

33 minutes ago, Quasar93 said:

About the sons of God, the Nephilim and demons:

First of all, demons are not fallen angels,

In the second place, where did the sons of God, come from ?

With that having been determined, the sons of God, are spirit beings, as is God and the angels. 

"When men began to increase in number on the earth and daughters were born to them the sons of God saw that the daughters of men were beautiful, and they married any of them they chose." Gen.6:1-2. Keep in mind, Jesus inferred angels do not marry nor are given in marriag - in heaven - according to Mt.22:30.

In other words, these sons of God left their first estate and citizenship in heaven, and went to the earth, with the power to become visible and appear as any physical normal man and married a daughter of human men.  The offspring they had with human women, resulting in their children being the Nephilim/giants, born to them as recorded in Gen.6:4.
 
Take note of this important fact: The Nephilim were hybrid regarding the origin of their first estate or "citizenship," because they did not come as a citizen from heaven, nor as a natural human being, which is what this thread is all about.

Up to this point, we have found that the sons of God/fallen angels, who came down to the earth from heaven, and had children by human women, who then lost their first estate in heaven.  God then imprisoned them until the day of judgement, according to 1 Pet.2:4 and Jude 6.
 
The fallen angels here, were only part of those belonging to Satan, who is still very active with the rest of his angels.  Reference to Satan and his angels being cast from heaven, is prophecy, as recorded in Rev.12:9, yet to come, during the 70th and final week [7 years] of God's decree upon the destiny of Israel. Also recorded as Jesus Olivet Discourse of the 7 year tribulation, in Mt.24; Mk.13 and in Lk.21.  Prophecy yet to be fulfilled.
 
That leaves us with the hybrid Nephilim, described in the Scriptures as giants both before the flood of Noah in Gen.6:4 - and after the flood in Num.13:33; Dt.1:28; 3:11; 9:2; Josh.11:22; 12:2, 4; 1 Sam17:4-7 and 1 Chr.20:6-8.
 
How could the Nephilim, the giants who lived before the flood of Noah be present on the earth after the flood, as recorded in Gen.6:4, when the flood killed everyone on the earth except Noah and his seven family members?  The only logical answers to that is that all the sons of God/fallen angels were not all caught and thrown into the Abyss/prison until after the flood of Noah.  That more of Satan's sons of God/angels sought after the daughters of men/human women, after the flood of Noah.

 

Remember, the hybrid Nephilim had no previous estate, "citizenship," with either the heavenly host or to humanity. Therefore, their spirit/souls were relegated to remain earthbound until the day of judgement, seeking to get into whatever body they could find to do so, regardless of whether human or animal, as recorded in Lk.8:26-33. That is what/who the demons were/are.

I was with you until here.  You are obviously taking your "talking points" from the books of Enoch.  I don't necessarily have a problem with that, but it is held to a lower standard than the other books of the OT, especially 2 and 3 Enoch which have questionable authorship. 

You assume Noah's Flood covered the entire Earth.  The Hebrew for earth translates to ground or land.  See the following. 

Strong's Concordance

adamah: ground, land

Original Word: אֲדָמָה
Part of Speech: Noun Feminine
Transliteration: adamah
Phonetic Spelling: (ad-aw-maw')
Short Definition: land

Adam takes his name from how God created him.  The Jews did not have a concept of a spherical Earth.  To read it that way is deceiving.

So Noah's Flood covered the land up to a certain level.  From a scientific standpoint (and I'm all about science), the Planet Earth could not be covered by that much water.  Where did the water go?  We are talking about a major miracle here that there's no scientific evidence to support.  I believe there was a flood, Noah's Flood, but that was a large localized flood covering the Mediterranean and Black Seas.  The flood drove out the Nephilim from the land that was to be the future homeland of the Jewish people.  There is evidence of a large flood about the time of Noah, but it wasn't global.  Since God's recreation work was done in Genesis 1:3 onwards and he called it good, there was no need for God to do more creative work before, during and after Noah's Flood.  Scientifically, there's no way to get rid of the excess water.  And above all, God is the Supreme Scientist from the Higgs-Boson particle to the expanse of our universe.  And that's only what we verify with our five senses with enhanced tools.

So the bottom line is the Nephilim were driven far from the land and the fallen angels were locked up in chains.  Not being immortal some of the Nephilim died (like Goliath), and some were driven far away and became the stuff of legends.  But they were still mortal.  That's one of the reasons God did not want His people to mix with those from neighboring countries.

The Jews had a manner of writing that is different than ours.  When they say the whole earth, what they are saying is the land.  Whole is added to express something large, not the whole Planet Earth.  I don't have a problem with people that take Noah's Flood as global.  I just don't see it and don't believe a literal understanding of scripture demands that belief.

[Quasar93]

9 hours ago, Saved.One.by.Grace said:

I was with you until here.  You are obviously taking your "talking points" from the books of Enoch.  I don't necessarily have a problem with that, but it is held to a lower standard than the other books of the OT, especially 2 and 3 Enoch which have questionable authorship. 

You assume Noah's Flood covered the entire Earth.  The Hebrew for earth translates to ground or land.  See the following. 

Strong's Concordance

adamah: ground, land

Original Word: אֲדָמָה
Part of Speech: Noun Feminine
Transliteration: adamah
Phonetic Spelling: (ad-aw-maw')
Short Definition: land

Adam takes his name from how God created him.  The Jews did not have a concept of a spherical Earth.  To read it that way is deceiving.

So Noah's Flood covered the land up to a certain level.  From a scientific standpoint (and I'm all about science), the Planet Earth could not be covered by that much water.  Where did the water go?  We are talking about a major miracle here that there's no scientific evidence to support.  I believe there was a flood, Noah's Flood, but that was a large localized flood covering the Mediterranean and Black Seas.  The flood drove out the Nephilim from the land that was to be the future homeland of the Jewish people.  There is evidence of a large flood about the time of Noah, but it wasn't global.  Since God's recreation work was done in Genesis 1:3 onwards and he called it good, there was no need for God to do more creative work before, during and after Noah's Flood.  Scientifically, there's no way to get rid of the excess water.  And above all, God is the Supreme Scientist from the Higgs-Boson particle to the expanse of our universe.  And that's only what we verify with our five senses with enhanced tools.

So the bottom line is the Nephilim were driven far from the land and the fallen angels were locked up in chains.  Not being immortal some of the Nephilim died (like Goliath), and some were driven far away and became the stuff of legends.  But they were still mortal.  That's one of the reasons God did not want His people to mix with those from neighboring countries.

The Jews had a manner of writing that is different than ours.  When they say the whole earth, what they are saying is the land.  Whole is added to express something large, not the whole Planet Earth.  I don't have a problem with people that take Noah's Flood as global.  I just don't see it and don't believe a literal understanding of scripture demands that belief.

 

Now that you have expressed your opinions, show me who you think the sons of God and the Nephilim are together with the origin of the demons, that I clearly delineated in my OP about them.

As for the Flood of Noah, it was the second of two global floods the earth has had,  The first one is described in Gen.1:2.  You will have a very difficult time trying to prove there was no such thing.  Explain to me, for example, what caused the following, if wasn't clearly from flood waters that covered the earth at one time.  This is another subject from this thread.  If you want to debate this issue, why don't you start another thread for it?

https://www.google.com/search?q=Monument+Valley+pics&hl=en&biw=1067&bih=517&prmd=imvns&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=q4KOTr25Ncnr0gG3zPwx&sqi=2&ved=0CCUQsAQ&gws_rd=ssl#gws_rd=ssl&imgrc=hc37QTKlM_5-1M%3A 

And there is much, much more of the above from where it came from.

 

Quasar93

 

[Ezra]

52 minutes ago, Quasar93 said:

As for the Flood of Noah, it was the second of two global floods the earth has had,  The first one is described in Gen.1:2.

I'm sure that would be news to Noah and Moses (not to mention most Christians).

[Quasar93]

If we are searching, we can learn something new every day, can't we?

 

Gen.1:1 "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. ² Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters."

 

Ps.24:1 "The earth is the Lord’s, and everything in it,
    the world, and all who live in it;
² for he founded it on the seas
    and established it on the waters."

 

^{2 Pet.3:5 "}But they deliberately forget that long ago by God’s word the heavens came into being and the earth was formed out of water and by water"

 

Hope this helps.

 

Quasar93

 

 

 

[SavedOnebyGrace]

16 hours ago, Quasar93 said:

 

Now that you have expressed your opinions, show me who you think the sons of God and the Nephilim are together with the origin of the demons, that I clearly delineated in my OP about them.

As for the Flood of Noah, it was the second of two global floods the earth has had,  The first one is described in Gen.1:2.  You will have a very difficult time trying to prove there was no such thing.  Explain to me, for example, what caused the following, if wasn't clearly from flood waters that covered the earth at one time.  This is another subject from this thread.  If you want to debate this issue, why don't you start another thread for it?

https://www.google.com/search?q=Monument+Valley+pics&hl=en&biw=1067&bih=517&prmd=imvns&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=q4KOTr25Ncnr0gG3zPwx&sqi=2&ved=0CCUQsAQ&gws_rd=ssl#gws_rd=ssl&imgrc=hc37QTKlM_5-1M%3A 

And there is much, much more of the above from where it came from.

Quasar93

I did not express any opinions of my own, just what is shown in the Bible.  Since I started this thread, I am not willing to let another hijack it or dictate to me the terms of use.

[Quasar93]

5 hours ago, Saved.One.by.Grace said:

I did not express any opinions of my own, just what is shown in the Bible.  Since I started this thread, I am not willing to let another hijack it or dictate to me the terms of use.

 

It has been my understanding this is a public forum.  As such, it is also my understanding, it is not exclusively ordained to any member here, but rather, an open site for al members to express their views, as I have done.  If you can present Scriptural rebuttal to my post, rather than op0inion, then please do so,

Show me where I have not supported what I posted with Scripture.

 

Quasar93

[SavedOnebyGrace]

1 hour ago, Quasar93 said:

It has been my understanding this is a public forum.  As such, it is also my understanding, it is not exclusively ordained to any member here, but rather, an open site for al members to express their views, as I have done.  If you can present Scriptural rebuttal to my post, rather than op0inion, then please do so,

Show me where I have not supported what I posted with Scripture.

Quasar93

I don't respond to demands by newbies looking not for the truth, but an argument.