Under the law

[Willa]

On 11/6/2016 at 1:37 PM, Ezra said:

We need to be careful here. One of the functions of the Law is to declare the whole world guilty before God. Therefore those who refuse to obey the Gospel condemn themselves to eternal Hell.

But the other function of the Law is to establish righteousness through the power of the Holy Spirit. That is why the Ten Commandments are now the Law of Christ or the Law of Love (Romans 13:8-10).

Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.  Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

So true, Ezra.  You nailed it.  

[Willa]

On 11/15/2016 at 3:42 AM, bcbsr said:

Ro 6:14  For sin shall not be your master, because you are not under law, but under grace.

That is, law no longer controls one's destiny. For "there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus,  because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set me free from the law of sin and death." Rom 8:1,2 Which is to say that sinning no longer affects one's salvation status, because of the grace of justification under the New Covenant. 

 

I think these verses apply to those who walk in the Spirit, not to those who walk according to the flesh which results in death.  People who continue in a sinful life style show that they are not truly saved.  

 1Co 6:9 NKJV  Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals,[fn] nor sodomites,  1Co 6:10  nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.  1Co 6:11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.

[Rom 8:1-39 NKJV] 1 [There is] therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God [did] by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those [who live] according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded [is] death, but to be spiritually minded [is] life and peace

[bcbsr]

15 minutes ago, Willa said:

I think these verses apply to those who walk in the Spirit, not to those who walk according to the flesh which results in death.  People who continue in a sinful life style show that they are not truly saved.  

 1Co 6:9 NKJV  Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals,[fn] nor sodomites,  1Co 6:10  nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.  1Co 6:11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.

[Rom 8:1-39 NKJV] 1 [There is] therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God [did] by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those [who live] according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded [is] death, but to be spiritually minded [is] life and peace

 "No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God." 1John 3:9 And thus those born of God are eternally secure. 

At issue is whether it is as the Neo-Circumcision has it that salvation is contingent upon one's ongoing performance, or as those who trust in Christ view it that those born of God are eternally secure and walk according to the Spirit by nature. Do one's works cause one to be saved and born of God, or do works reveal whether one has been saved by a faith which is apart from works?

 

 

[Truth Seeker]

I confess, this subject of "the law" versus grace causes me much consternation. I believe that it is one of the most misunderstood and misused scriptures and has caused much damage to Christianity in America over the last four or five decades. When Paul said that we are not under "the law", what law was he talking about? Are Christians free from all law? Are Christians free to live any way that we desire and still go to heaven? Observing Christianity in America you would be led to believe that is the case. 

[Remnantrob]

10 hours ago, Truth Seeker said:

I confess, this subject of "the law" versus grace causes me much consternation. I believe that it is one of the most misunderstood and misused scriptures and has caused much damage to Christianity in America over the last four or five decades. When Paul said that we are not under "the law", what law was he talking about? Are Christians free from all law? Are Christians free to live any way that we desire and still go to heaven? Observing Christianity in America you would be led to believe that is the case. 

Thanks for being honest TS! 

I remember when I had cable about 2 years ago I saw a program called preachers of LA. These church leaders in my opinion caused even more confusion with the masses that watch as to what it meant not to be under the law. afterwards you had worldly folk mocking christians saying things like you're just like me because of what they saw. Granted it was reality TV but why does the world need to see the church's dirty laundry because that behavior has been justified by Christians because of grace and the fact that we're not under the law. Forgive me if I am grouping all christians who use this term this way because I know that not all do.

Edited November 21, 2016 by Remnantrob
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[Ezra]

15 hours ago, Truth Seeker said:

When Paul said that we are not under "the law", what law was he talking about?

Paul was referring to the Law of Moses (the Old Covenant).

15 hours ago, Truth Seeker said:

Are Christians free from all law?

Obviously not, since the Law of Christ applies to Christians.

5 hours ago, Remnantrob said:

Are Christians free to live any way that we desire and still go to heaven?

Going to Heaven is not determined by how a Christian lives but by believing on the Lord Jesus Christ and being saved (Acts 16:31). That includes repentance towards God -- a turning away from all sins, idols, and false gods. But we are justified by faith, not faith + works.

15 hours ago, Truth Seeker said:

I confess, this subject of "the law" versus grace causes me much consternation...

It should not cause anyone any consternation. As Paul says "The Law was our schoolmaster to bring us to Christ". Once a sinner sees that he cannot possibly meet the demands of the Law, he turns to Christ for salvation.

As to the observance of the seventh day sabbath (mentioned by others), a careful reading of Acts chapter 15 will put their minds at ease.  There is absolutely no mention of this observance, since the Lord's Day (Revelation 1:10) has superseded the sabbath. Anyone then to turns to Sabbatarianism must also keep the whole of the Law of Moses (which is an impossibility).

[Truth Seeker]

Thanks Remnantrob and Ezra. Ezra you mentioned turning away from all sin, can you tell me specifically what are sins and what are not a sins?

[Guest Teditis]

I agree with the folks who have stated that we are no longer under the Mosaic Law... that was "fulfilled" through Jesus Christ's ministry.

No Gentile is required to act like they're Jewish (mores) and there is no more sacrificing of animals.

We remain obedient to the things that are pertinent to the two Commandments that Christ highlighted as the anchors of all the Law...

 [Mat 22:37-40 KJV]

37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

38 This is the first and great commandment.

39 And the second [is] like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.

40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

[Truth Seeker]

Then again I have to ask what is sin and what is not? I mean specifically not just a broad definition like missing the mark.

[Guest Teditis]

At the heart of the two Commandments that Jesus spoke is the concept of "Love".

So sin would be doing anything unloving towards God or "our neighbor".