Anointing with oil

[hmbld]

3 hours ago, Neighbor said:

How do I see it? Don't know enough to make doctrine of my very limited understanding.

That's one reason this thread is so interesting to me- it is making for study of the word of God for me.

Jesus was covered with pure nard by  a woman, very costly and it was kept in an alabaster flask. Speaking of value and purity  I suppose. She "wasted" it upon  our Lord in the eyesight of some that thought it a poor use of something that could be marketed  sold for money, a better use of it in their opinion.

So what is Nard, pure nard at that? If it is "Nardostachys jatamansi, a flowering plant of the Valerian family which grows in the Himalayas of Nepal, China, and India". Then it probably was a much appreciated aromatic perfume of great cost to be found imported to Israel. And this whole, shall we say, pint of perfume was emptied upon our Lord. Evidently it was not  a healing oil but a pleasant scent.

So it seems we have a different oil being mentioned. -least different from the mixture the Levites concocted, under God's instruction, for ceremony and honor of Father God at the time.

Then we have the following too- from James 5, "Is anyone among you suffering? Let him pray. Is anyone cheerful? Let him vsing praise.  Is anyone among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord.  And the prayer of faith will save the one who is sick, and the Lord will raise him up. And if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven.  Therefore, confess your sins to one another and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person has great power as it is working.  Elijah was a man with a nature like ours, and he prayed fervently that it might not rain, and for three years and six months it did not rain on the earth. Then he prayed again, and heaven gave rain, and the earth bore its fruit."

 

We seem to have an anointing, BUT it is in the name of the Lord. We also have prayer by the elders with the prayer of faith. And it is the Lord that will raise up the sick not the oil, not the elders, but the Lord.

We also have components of confession, repentance, righteousness, resulting in great power.

BUT to me the glory is to God to Jesus - very much like salvation itself it is not of us, we save no one, however we are to be obedient and proclaim the gospel of Jesus to all the world.

 I guess to me it is important that  we each try to be obediant in all matters, yet be very humble knowing that  it is always best to do everything, no matter what we do,  to the glory of God.- Give all glory, all credit to God, not the oil, not the anointing, not the prayer, not the confession etc., for those are marks of obedience to the cause of healings.

Obedience is an acting out of  praise of our creator for His mercy and grace extended upon us. All the rest  are symbols only. There are no magic beans, no magic oils, only obedient acts demonstrating the faith of Jesus within and the trust in Him, the appreciation of His  sacrifice made for us. All of which are reveals of Jesus to an unbelieving world. So that some might turn hear the Holy Spirit's specific call and be repentant to salvation by grace alone. - Knowledge and acceptance of eternal life with our creator being by far the greater healing than the recovery from illness or deformity of these present physical  and corrupted bodies.

That's where I am for now. Always waiting for greater understanding, a gestalt, to manifest through the accumulation of the Word, the historic facts, and through the expositions, thoughts, and prayers of many.

First, I like how directly you stated that its the Lord, not anointing, prayer, oil, etc.  It struck me how clearly you stated this, nice!  Next, it struck me that you brought up obedience.  No, there are no magical oils, but it was whether we are being obedient to scripture that made me start this thread, to ask what specifically it means in the verse to ask the elders for prayer and anointing.  Now, I have been very much against rituals sometimes performed in church, and I don't mean just the certain church that gets singled out for rituals, but all of them.  A week ago it struck me that I might be so much against rituals that I've overlooked things in scripture that we are to be obedient in doing, such as the anointing the sick with oil.  We are instructed to believe, and be baptized.  I felt convicted and wanted to be obedient in this, and did.  The act of being baptized by immersion, is obedience, it is also proclaiming to the world you belong to Jesus, it plays out the death, burial, and resurrection, it portrays the death of the old man, leaving him at the bottom of the lake, and the birth of the new man.  So, I am saying, being obedient in baptism is symbolic, what about being obedient in the elders anointing with oil, is this not also symbolic?  Why choose one thing to be obedient in, and not all?  I started this thread, got lots of answers, and maybe I have even more questions now, but the experience of learning has been great!  Thanks for contributing!

[Neighbor]

Seems there is yet oil of another kind mentioned too;

Oil of joy referenced by the psalmist within Psalm 45, as joy above the rest or manifestation through God ( As a reward from God) of gladness more than the others have. Also mentioned at Isaiah 61 as an oil for ashes of mourners, that possibly reflect a hope even in time of sadness. And again at Matthew six, "But when you fast, anoint your head and wash your face, that your fasting may not be seen by others but by your Father who is in secret."

Oil to  be seen by God alone.

 

This particular trail of oil anointing, is it physical in nature? Or is it the anointing with the inner spirit of rejoicing, rejoicing in the security that  is through Christ Jesus, that lifts one so anointed above and past any sense of sadness and mourning, for the security that is known to  the possessor the one so anointed with inner joy, even as others may mourn?

How many oils, real  all,  but physical and/or spiritual might there be?

Edited December 18, 2016 by Neighbor

[Ezra]

6 hours ago, hmbld said:

So, I am saying, being obedient in baptism is symbolic, what about being obedient in the elders anointing with oil, is this not also symbolic?

The context makes it perfectly clear that there is nothing symbolic about the instructions given by James.  Why are we trying to complicate what is simple? The book of James is a PRACTICAL BOOK and deals with practical issues.

[Neighbor]

Quoting-"Why choose one thing to be obedient in, and not all?"

Why indeed? But then there is the rub, for water baptism is a symbolic obedient outward expression to many, yet  salvation itself to yet many others. And, each party or camp of thought has their own understanding of the very same passages of the Bible plus extra-biblical histories and accounts to share too.

 

A man is on his "bed" at a healing pool of water year after year waiting for the moment he might be the first in at the designated time, but he can't get up off his bed to be first. He cannot get the reward of his own faith for he is overrun by others.

He can't make the necessary rite, he can't meet the timeline. Yet he awaits,  he tries- and His Lord does use him.

The poorest creature that he is becomes  a part of the Bible, a testimony of miracle, the power of God in Christ Jesus, and is healed.

It is  the faith of Jesus that renders him healed, and not the magic of the water is it not?

Was the man a convert to the gospel of Jesus when he was healed?

Did he even know Jesus?

 

..."After this there was a feast of the Jews, and Jesus went up to Jerusalem.

 Now there is in Jerusalem by the Sheep Gate a pool, in Aramaic called Bethesda, which has five roofed colonnades.  In these lay a multitude of invalids—blind, lame, and paralyzed.  One man was there who had been an invalid for thirty-eight years.  When Jesus saw him lying there and knew that he had already been there a long time, he said to him, “Do you want to be healed?”  The sick man answered him, “Sir, I have no one to put me into the pool when the water is stirred up, and while I am going another steps down before me.”  Jesus said to him, “Get up, take up your bed, and walk.”  And at once the man was healed, and he took up his bed and walked.

Now that day was the Sabbath.  So the Jews said to the man who had been healed, “It is the Sabbath, and it is not lawful for you to take up your bed.”  But he answered them, “The man who healed me, that man said to me, ‘Take up your bed, and walk.’”  They asked him, “Who is the man who said to you, ‘Take up your bed and walk’?”  Now the man who had been healed did not know who it was, for Jesus had withdrawn, as there was a crowd in the place.  Afterward Jesus found him in the temple and said to him, “See, you are well! Sin no more, that nothing worse may happen to you.”  The man went away and told the Jews that it was Jesus who had healed him.  And this was why the Jews were persecuting Jesus, because he was doing these things on the Sabbath.  But Jesus answered them, 'My Father is working until now, and I am working.' "....

 

The man had been at the pool -or to it- 38 years, the same length of time it took to have the last of the unfaithiful die out as they wandered  in a desert long before his waitings at that pool. 38 years, that's a long time. Yet Jesus had him serve a purpose a good purpose of God, that many might see that it is  He that is salvation, and not a pool of any kind.

So is it all that vital, what the composition  of an oil might be? Or the manner in which it is applied? Or even if  the person receiving it knows it's origin or purpose?

 I submit that it is not nearly as important as is Jesus, with His grace and mercy extended to all those given Him, of which He loses not a one. For He is the good shepherd that lays down his life  for His sheep. And He arose again  conquering the final enemy.

We rejoice in that,  and not in oils or baptisms of any kind, knowing we are saved by grace alone and not of the works of men; not by rituals, not by monuments, nor holy waters, nor oils of any kind whatsoever.

It is not the "pool"  we can wait upon to be stirred up, that might save. It is by the Holy Spirit that calls specifically to the elect, and the elect hears repents and are saved by  Jesus' sacrifice of redemption of us, the payment of the awful price of our sin.

Water or no water, oil or no oil. It is Jesus alone that saves. He is the healing, the only healing each of us needs, for He reconciles us to God the Father; and nothing more than that is needed.

Least that is the way I see it.

 

 

Edited December 19, 2016 by Neighbor

[Leonardo Von]

On 12/17/2016 at 1:29 PM, Ezra said:

When something is given as a directive in Scripture, it is meant for all ages and cultures. So to dismiss the anointing with oil, and to substitute it with something else, is not consistent with the belief that the Bible is the written Word of God.  We may not know the reasons, but "the just shall live by faith".

I believe in Jesus Christ and all that is written in the Holy Scripture. And all Holy Scripture has to be fulfilled rigorously.

However, we must follow Paul's counsel to fulfill the Holy Scripture correctly:

 

·         “Wherefore be ye not unwise, but understanding what the will of the Lord [ is ].” (Ephesians 5.17).

 

When James wrote his letter, he was not instituting a ritual, but a lifestyle. These were only necessary before Jesus sacrificed himself on the cross of Golgotha. Today we have to live under grace (Romans 6:14, Galatians 5:18), moved by the Spirit of the Eternal (Romans 8:14).

I know it's hard to accept this idea. Even in the time of the apostles there was much controversy in this regard (for example, in Acts 15:1-2). Today, with the maneuvers of the Religious System, we are led to focus on what is not so important.

In the section in question, olive oil itself is the least important:

•      First, we must acknowledge our mistakes and then repent and turn from our wicked ways.
•      Secondly, we must go to the house of the offended brother who is sick and ask his forgiveness for the wrongs we have done to him. In fact, this sickness of the brother should serve as a fear and tremor for the other brothers, so that they feel encouraged to ask forgiveness of each other before all for the faults committed (confess the blame to each other).
• Furthermore, this is the reason why they called the most mature in the faith (elders). Considering that there was acceptance of people in this age (James 2:1-7), their contempt for their brother certainly contributed to the illness.
• Here we can see that the presence of a brother with illness should not be considered by us as something normal, but rather as an alert to all the brothers that something is wrong with the whole community.
•      Thirdly, moved by faith, that is, by the full conviction of how insignificant we are in the perfection of the designs of the Eternal, let us take by His love and pray for the sick brother. Let us also take the opportunity to pray for one another in order to seek the full restoration of all relationships.
•      Finally, after being completely taken by the grace and faith of Jesus, a physical proof of our love for him is ministered in the life of the sick brother. At the time of the apostles, the oil served this purpose for the reason explained in the previous post.

 

   

But see that the oil, if it were not the fruit of Christ's love for the sick brother, was worthless. Just think of what Paul said (1 Corinthians 13:1-3) and what is recorded in Song of Solomon 8,6,7:

 

·         “Set me as a seal upon thine heart, as a seal upon thine arm: for love [ is ] strong as death; jealousy [ is ] cruel as the grave: the coals thereof [ are ] coals of fire, [ which hath a ] most vehement flame.” (Songs 8.6,7).

 

May Jesus enable us to receive His grace in us so that through our trust in Him we can focus on this love that is able to cover a multitude of sins (James 5:19,20):

 

·         “Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him; let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.”.

[Leonardo Von]

Dear Brother Hmbld,

Grace and mercy and peace from our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

On 12/18/2016 at 0:07 PM, hmbld said:

As in those times, the oil was a very common item, and by itself it is worthless

 

Although oil was a common item in Israeli society, its financial value was great. Look:

 

·         “Now there cried a certain woman of the wives of the sons of the prophets unto Elisha, saying, Thy servant my husband is dead; and thou knowest that thy servant did fear the LORD: and the creditor is come to take unto him my two sons to be bondmen. And Elisha said unto her, What shall I do for thee? tell me, what hast thou in the house? And she said, Thine handmaid hath not any thing in the house, save a pot of oil. Then he said, Go, borrow thee vessels abroad of all thy neighbours, [ even ] empty vessels; borrow not a few. And when thou art come in, thou shalt shut the door upon thee and upon thy sons, and shalt pour out into all those vessels, and thou shalt set aside that which is full. So she went from him, and shut the door upon her and upon her sons, who brought [ the vessels ] to her; and she poured out. And it came to pass, when the vessels were full, that she said unto her son, Bring me yet a vessel. And he said unto her, [ There is ] not a vessel more. And the oil stayed. Then she came and told the man of God. And he said, Go, sell the oil, and pay thy debt, and live thou and thy children of the rest.” (2Kings 4.1-7).

 

Notice how this woman managed to pay off the debt and live off the rest just by selling the oil. See also this passage:

 

·         “1Six days before the Passover, Jesus therefore came to Bethany, where Lazarus was, whom Jesus had raised from the dead. So they gave a dinner for him there. Martha served, and Lazarus was one of those reclining with him at table. Mary therefore took a pounda of expensive ointment made from pure nard, and anointed the feet of Jesus and wiped his feet with her hair. The house was filled with the fragrance of the perfume. But Judas Iscariot, one of his disciples (he who was about to betray him), said, “Why was this ointment not sold for three hundred denariib and given to the poor?” (John 12.1-5 - ESV).

 

Notice how this ointment could be worth up to three hundred denarii (the equivalent of a three-day salary for a journeymen).

Of course there was a difference between oil and oil (see Exodus 30: 32-33). Each oil was composed of a certain type of spice.

In any case, financially it could even be worth a lot.

However, on a spiritual level, the oil had (or has) no mystical power. And as I said in the previous post, James was not instituting a ritual, but merely quoting a custom of the day that showed the host's love, affection, and respect for the guest.

The difference here is that the guests, moved by the love and grace of the Eternal, physically demonstrate to the sick host the treatment of the Eternal that has already occurred in their hearts (which now finds itself contrite and broken, and therefore filled with the Spirit Of the Eternal - Isaiah 57.15).

To be more exact: what James was showing is the importance of physically expressing our faith in Jesus and His love in us toward those whom He has given us.

 

·         “What [ doth it ] profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, and one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be [ ye ] warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what [ doth it ] profit? Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.” (James 2.14-18).

 

That is: faith and love theorists do not save. Although it is Jesus who saves us by His grace through faith (Ephesians 2: 8-9), our works confirm what we really believe. Our conduct reveals what we truly believe.

On 12/18/2016 at 0:07 PM, hmbld said:

I realize prayer, confessing our sins to one another may be even more important than the oil, yet I feel compelled to learn if this oil is merely stated for those times, and today we might ask elders to pray and give us two aspirin instead of oil?

 

In short, what is important is not the oil itself, but what will allow the neighbor to see Jesus' love for him through us (as well as the reason why we value both Jesus and the Holy Scripture). If it's an aspirin, so be it. But it may be a glass of cold water (Matthew 10.42), food, drink, lodging, clothing, medicine, and especially our company (see Matthew 25: 34-46).

To know which is the best gift for the next to see the way that is excellent (1Corinthians 12:31), it is not more appropriate to ask the One who probe minds and hearts (Jeremiah 17:10), as well as the depths of the Eternal (1 Corinthians 2:10, 11). In doing so, we may know what the Eternal has already given us freely in Christ (1 Corinthians 2:12) especially to share with those who accept receiving His love (Proverbs 3:27; 1 John 4:19).

Finally, may Jesus always grant us what the neighbor needs to receive (not what we want to offer, let alone what he expects to receive, but exactly what the Eternal did for him) and fill us with His love and vision, so that we should never use in a selfish way that which should serve especially to unite us even more to those that the Eternal has placed in our life.