The Holy Trinity?

[brakelite]

55 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

As an adjective, deity doesn't mean separate God.  The Holy Spirit is not a separate deity (noun)  from either the Father or Jesus, just a separate Person.  God is one God, but three persons, something we have no point of reference for in human experience, which is why it is such a mystery to us.

Yet the entire concept of trinity as handed down through the creeds is that there are 3 distinct co-eternal co-equal beings forming one God. This idea is brought to people as God the Father, which title is repeated 13 times in the KJV...God the Son, which title is not found in the Bible at all, and God the Holy Spirit, which is not found either. Three distinct separate Gods which equal one God. Of course its a mystery. It was a mystery to Israel, that is why they reject it today, and why Christians find it so hard to evangelize Jews because of the idolatry factor in multiple gods. It was also a mystery to Jesus, who taught no such concept. He taught us to pray to His Father. Not once did He pray to the Holy Spirit, nor recommend it anywhere. Yet the Holy Spirit is a co-equal co-eternal God? It was also a mystery to the apostles.

Why not worship the Holy Spirit? Why does the Holy Spirit not know when Jesus is coming back? Why is it a blasphemy against the Holy Spirit unforgivable but a blasphemy against the Father or Jesus forgivable? What happened to co-equality? Perhaps because it is NOT a third person/god as is made out to be?

There are many names and phrases associated with the trinity doctrine but none are Biblical and hence none of them exist in Scripture.

Below are phrases found in Scripture for the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit compared to Trinitarian phrases. The Trinitarian will argue that while the word Trinity is not in the Bible, the doctrine is.

But there is nothing but straw man arguments, and this doctrine is just as absent as any of these manmade Trinitarian words.

 

Edited January 9, 2017 by brakelite

[soonsister]

On 1/5/2017 at 4:00 AM, Brittany said:

I've grown up believing in the Holy Trinity, as that's what I've always been taught. But, following 1 Thessalonians 5:21's "But examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good" (NASB), after reading through some of the Bible and reading some theological essays online, I'm not really sure I can say I believe in the Trinity. There doesn't seem to be much support for the Trinity in what I've read so far. There seems to be more support for Binitarian beliefs than Trinitarian beliefs. Could you guys please provide biblical evidence for a Triune God?

I think we have to begin from the beginning as it were. Adding to this scripture in Deuteronomy something like 43 other verses that tell us is but one God.  Deuteronomy 6:4  Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord. 

God of course is the Holy Spirit. And Jesus was as we know God in human form. All then that is referred to as giving testimony in Heaven, those three, are actually the one. Jesus arrived to do the work of God in flesh but he was still God.

There is only one, not three separate powers. That which gives testimony in Heaven are all God.

 

[brakelite]

We are all desirous to know and understand the true God...all around us there is a pantheon of false ideas, false gods, and not just in the religious world. And the vast majority of Christians today are deceived into worshiping a false god, a trinity which is derived from pagan origins. Yet Jesus told us who God is. The apostles told us who the true God is. Why make up another????

John 17:3  And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

Who was Jesus speaking to, the one He describes as the only true God? 

1 Cor. 8:66  But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
Paul says here that to the Christian church, there is only one God. Who is that one God?

 

[Paper mache]

47 minutes ago, brakelite said:

We are all desirous to know and understand the true God...all around us there is a pantheon of false ideas, false gods, and not just in the religious world. And the vast majority of Christians today are deceived into worshiping a false god, a trinity which is derived from pagan origins. Yet Jesus told us who God is. The apostles told us who the true God is. Why make up another????

John 17:3  And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

Who was Jesus speaking to, the one He describes as the only true God? 

1 Cor. 8:66  But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
Paul says here that to the Christian church, there is only one God. Who is that one God?

 

So Jesus isn't God?

[coheir]

Matt 28:19

Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

John 1:1

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

For me this does it

Edited January 10, 2017 by coheir

[brakelite]

25 minutes ago, Brittany said:

So Jesus isn't God?

Jesus is indeed God, because of the fact that He is the Son of God. He has inherited, by nature, His Father's nature and character...Jesus is therefore equal to His Father in all respects but two...age and authority.

[Paper mache]

47 minutes ago, brakelite said:

Jesus is indeed God, because of the fact that He is the Son of God. He has inherited, by nature, His Father's nature and character...Jesus is therefore equal to His Father in all respects but two...age and authority.

Ohh okay. I know that Jesus is worshipped in the New Testament, so I know He is God at least in some way. Otherwise He wouldn't allow people to worship Him. 

what does it mean when New Testament writers said "Glory to God the Father andthe Lord Jesus Christ"? Do "God" and "Lord" mean different things?

[soonsister]

1 hour ago, Brittany said:

So Jesus isn't God?

Yes, Jesus was God. During the annunciation God's angel instructed the virgin girl Mary to name the son God would deliver to her womb, Immanuel. Which translates as, God with us.

 

[Guest shiloh357]

5 hours ago, brakelite said:

Jesus is indeed God, because of the fact that He is the Son of God. He has inherited, by nature, His Father's nature and character...Jesus is therefore equal to His Father in all respects but two...age and authority.

 

Jesus is God, but did not inherit His Father's nature.  Jesus is the one true God.  The Father is the one true God.  The Holy Spirit is the one True God and they were that way from eternity past.   Jesus did not "inherit" a nature.   He has always been God by nature.   And Jesus always existed.  He is, as God the same age as the Father and operates in the same authority as the Father.   That is the ONLY correct way to look  at it.

[Guest shiloh357]

4 hours ago, Brittany said:

Ohh okay. I know that Jesus is worshipped in the New Testament, so I know He is God at least in some way. Otherwise He wouldn't allow people to worship Him. 

what does it mean when New Testament writers said "Glory to God the Father andthe Lord Jesus Christ"? Do "God" and "Lord" mean different things?

They are equal but different.   "God" refers to being or essence.  "Lord" refers to authority.   In the Bible there is only one Lord and that is God.   So "Lord" is a divine title.   In the New Testament usage, "Lord" (with a captial "L") is always a divine title.   You don't use it refer to a mere man.   Don't confuse that with "lord"  with a lower  case "l".   To different things.

When the Bible refers to Jesus as "Lord" Jesus Christ, it is referring to Jesus universal authority as God.   Look at Phi. 2:9-11.   Jesus has been exalted to the highest place and given the Name above all Names.    That Name is YHVH.  It's not talking about the Name, "Jesus"  being the highest Name.  It is talking about His Name as YHVH.    God the Father is YHVH.   Jesus is YHVH.  The Holy Spirit is YHVH.  

Jesus, while on earth, walk in submission to the Father's authority.  Jesus was modeling for us what living in submission to God looks like.  It's why Jesus prayed, and why he always did what the Father told Him to do.  Jesus operated in His humanity in everything including how to deal with things like temptation and persecution.  Had he dealt with those things in His Deity, He would not have been an example we could follow.  He had to show us how we could live as people walking in obedience to the Father.

Jesus was still God, but He submitted the exercise of his deity to the Father's direction while on earth.   That was temporary.   That is not the case, now that Jesus has been resurrected and is exalted to the right hand of the Father.   He has been restored back to where He was preincarnation with the full authority and prerogatives He had before coming to earth.