The Rapture of the Church

[Marcus O'Reillius]

41 minutes ago, inchrist said:

 Firstly theres no such thing as end of the Chuch age. That in itself is a violation of the most basic concepts of the Gospel of Christ.

Says you you rascally rabbit.

If it is, then you will have no problem  bringing that Scriptural quote into the light.

If not, then it's just you saying that.

[Marcus O'Reillius]

Silly Rabbit - that quote says AGES. 

And you can't see that there is more than one AGE in all of God's Kingdom's timeframe, which itself, is without beginning or end.

[Marcus O'Reillius]

Silly Rabbit.

I gave you the verse.  I am not responsible for your blindness, nor am I God that I can make you see. 
Rather you can stumble along quite well in your quest to destroy aspects of faith others have - and you reap those results.

“He will revive us after two days;
He will raise us up on the third day,
That we may live before Him.

2000 years of the Church Age in prophecy - Hosea 6:2.

[Steve_S]

2 hours ago, Marcus O'Reillius said:

Silly Rabbit.

I gave you the verse.  I am not responsible for your blindness, nor am I God that I can make you see. 
Rather you can stumble along quite well in your quest to destroy aspects of faith others have - and you reap those results.

“He will revive us after two days;
He will raise us up on the third day,
That we may live before Him.

2000 years of the Church Age in prophecy - Hosea 6:2.

Marcus O'Reillius has been removed from the thread for the above statement and will be issued a warning point.

[iamlamad]

7 hours ago, inchrist said:

The church is perpetual in all ages...there is no age where it ends.

The only age that is due to end is this satanc age.

And the only place where it states an ending of an age is in Rev 11:15

Please explain to us then, what is represented by the closing of the door when the 5 angels finally came back with oil, and he door was shut.

Just what was it that closed?

 

Next, was the born again road available to travel before Christ rose from the dead? Did ANY of the Old Covenant have the Holy Spirit WITHIN as in being born again?

Why don't the three angels preaching the gospel in Rev. 14 mention the death and resurrection of Christ, or the blood of Christ?

[iamlamad]

4 hours ago, inchrist said:

Angels? You mean virgins. What is represented by the doors Shut in the parable? Rosh hashanah.

What do you think the oil means?

Yes actually they trusted in God's promises, and they followed his commandments in the obedience of faith. Did you not know this?

 

You tell me...

 Jesus own words (John 3:10), "Are you a teacher of Israel and yet you do not understand this?" In other words, I'm not teaching or requiring anything new. Any Israelite who has ever been saved had to be born again by God's Spirit. Otherwise how would they ever overcome their natural hostility to God? How could they have ever submitted to God's law and pleased him—as many did, like Abel and Noah and Abraham and Moses and Rahab and Ruth and Deborah and David?

Zechariah 4:6 Therefore he told me, “These signify the word of the Lord to Zerubbabel: ‘Not by strength and not by power, but by my Spirit,’ says the Lord who rules over all.”

Job 33:4  The Spirit of God has made me, and the breath of the Almighty gives me life.

 Numbers 27: 18 says, "And the Lord said to Moses, 'Take Joshua the son of Nun,in whom is the spirit, and lay your hand upon him.'"

The old testament saints where saved the same way we are.

OT believers enjoyed the constant presence of thr holy spirit

Psalm 139:7–10 says, "Whither shall I go from thy Spirit? Or whither shall I flee from thy presence? If I ascend to heaven, thou art there! If I make my bed in Sheol, thou art there! If I take the wings of the morning and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea, even there thy hand shall lead me, and thy right hand shall hold me."

Here is the spirit as counselor and teacher in the OT

 Nehemiah 9:20, "Thou gavest thy good Spirit to instruct them

OT saints having the holy spirit to denounce evil and declare righteousness

 Micah 3:8 says, "As for me, I am filled with power, with the Spirit of the Lord, and with justice and might, to declare to Jacob his transgression and to Israel his sin."

 

 

Youre pretrib.....why do you have tribulation saints?  Because the moment after the rapture, millions will turn to Christ.

 

You are right, I meant to write "virgins." Sorry. I think the oil is representing the Holy Spirit.  I think to door shut is the rapture of the church. Once it is shut, the age of grace is over. Time goes to the Day of the Lord.

Was the born again experience available to those in the Old Covenant? I was surprised at your answer! If they could have been born again  - what Jesus declared as absolutely necessary to enter heaven - Then Jesus would not have had to die. Yet, we know He had to, for the blood of bulls and goats can never really REMOVE sin. The born again experience could not have been possible before the death and resurrection of Christ Jesus.  In the Old Covenant, sins were only covered: under the new they are removed as far as East is from the West.  Old Testament saints could not enter into heaven either, until Jesus rose from the dead, but were kept in paradise or "Abraham's Bosom. That is why it is written, "He led captivity captive..."

To answer your questions, they did it by will power. Is it any wonder they failed frequently? What I said was, they did not have the Holy Spirit within, as the seal of the Holy Spirit that we have. They pleased God by their faith. In fact, in many cases it seems they had more faith that many believers have today.  Perhaps you don't understand the difference between the "Holy Spirit upon" which is the anointing - which was available to the prophets and kings, but not to the general public, versus the "Holy Spirit within" which is available ONLY by becoming born again. Did you not remember the words of Jesus where He said one cannot put new wine into old bottles? God had to make born again spirits before He could put the Holy Spirit within.

The old testament saints where saved the same way we are.

Absolutely not! Not while they were alive and in their bodies. They got born again in paradise when Jesus was there.  Well, in a way you are right, for we all get saved by faith. But we get born again as we are being "saved." That experience was just not available to them. Jesus had not yet died and rose from the dead.

OT believers enjoyed the constant presence of thr holy spirit

Can you find a verse? Yes, the Holy Spirit was available to the prophets, but not to the average person. And again, that was the Holy Spirit upon as the anointing, not the Holy Spirit within. And VERY FEW of them were anointed by the Holy Spirit. Perhaps you should re-read John 14 and 16 about the Holy Spirit. I was sure Jesus said that He, the Holy Spirit, would not come until Jesus left and sent Him down. 

Of course we know that God is everywhere. But in what capacity? He was certainly not IN THEM as He is in us. Yet, he was holding together the atoms that made up their bodies. But they had not seal of the Holy Spirit inside.

Youre pretrib.....why do you have tribulation saints?  Because the moment after the rapture, millions will turn to Christ.  They waited too long and the door was shut.

Notice:

Acts 10:38  How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.

 

Jesus operated as a prophet under the Old Covenant. He was anointed by the Holy Spirit just as the OT prophets were anointed. But the way it was written then is that the "Spirit came upon" them. This tells me He was not on them  24/7. He came when He was needed.  With Jesus He came without measure.

John 14:¹⁷ Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

There is a big difference between with and in.

Edited February 13, 2017 by iamlamad

[n2thelight]

On 2/10/2017 at 10:09 AM, Marcus O'Reillius said:

So you can't answer what "age" is ended.

Thought so.

The age before this one,when satan rebelled

The one we are in,of flesh,because of that rebellion

The one to come,back like we were always meant to be

 

[n2thelight]

On 2/10/2017 at 0:52 PM, missmuffet said:

Then why go on and on asking questions regarding the pretrib rapture?

Just planting seeds,hoping some may see the light...

[n2thelight]

On 2/11/2017 at 6:45 PM, OneLight said:

Interesting you did not include Romans 8:28-30 to be part of your explanation of who God chose.  Let's look at those verses.

And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose.  For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.

It seems that in order to follow the rest of scripture, especially John 3:16 where God has an open invitation to the whole world, free choice has to play part of being chosen.  Notice that God foreknew.  Foreknew means that He knew beforehand, indicating that God, seeing down through time, knew who would accept His Son and who would not, choosing whom He knew would accept His plan for salvation.

Is this first earth age a time before Genesis 1:1?

As for your last statement, have you considered the many times Christians during the tribulation period are called elect in scripture?  I will agree that they are not of the 144,000 that are to be sealed, also know as the elect.  Look up G1588.

God knowing who will choose Him I can't agree with.

The purpose of this age,age of the flesh is for us 2 make choice,if God already knew,it's no point for this age.

Understand my view is that we are with God,before being born of woman.All souls were created at the same time.

The first age we were all good,because of satans rebellion we had to be born of woman,ie flesh.

Those that proved themselves at that time are those born to see that God's Word comes to pass as written...

Question,did Paul have free will?

For those who say God knows our choice,I ask what's the purpose of here?

 

The age Im referring is before Gen 1:2

 

Now lets look at Romans

 

Romans 8:27 "And He That searcheth the hearts because He maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God."

Our hearts are our minds, and there is no one that can search your mind except the Spirit of God. Even Satan can not know what you are thinking, until you have placed that word in your mouth and spoken it. Satan can tempt you in your mind, but only the Holy Spirit can know what you are thinking, and even when it is still a little jumbled in your mind, intercede for you according to the will of God.

God wrote that "Will" down through the prophets, and we call that "Will" our Bible. God's Will is not a secret, because it was given over many centuries, through many prophets of God so that you and I living in this final generation would know exactly what His Will was for each of us. When the "saints" [elect] of God are striving to please Him [there is a condition here], then the Spirit will make the intercession for us exactly as it is stated in His Word, or "Will" that He would do.

There is a reason that God will interfere through the Holy Spirit in some lives, and it is given in the next verse.

Romans 8:28 "And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to His purpose."

We know that all things happen for the good of those that love God, not to just anybody, but especially to those that are "called according to God intended purpose" [His will].

Stop and think for a moment: Do you think that every detail of the Jesus Life and crucifixion could have taken place with out the direct control of Jesus Christ and the Spirit of God? Even to the point of the Kenite chief priest saying words that the Holy Spirit placed there in his mouth which he did not intend to say, but were prophesied by the prophets. God uses people, and nations, and things so that His Word, and Will shall be fulfilled.

God will use some people which are called "the elect", as well as others that have "free will", but He will not interfere in any free willed person's right to choose. It doesn't matter whether you are of the elect or given the rights of the free will, for when you seek after God and repent of your sins "in Jesus name", and study to know that Will of God; then the Spirit of God will lead you and direct you in accordance to His purpose.

Romans 8:29 "For whom He did foreknow, He also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren."

He foreknew them in the first earth age, and their success and love for Him. These are "the elect" of God, and in that first earth age God also predestinated them to be similar, or like the image of Jesus Christ [His son]. This is referring to the "only begotten Son of God" who died on the cross and arose again after the third day, and now sits on the right hand of the Father in heaven to be our advocate.

Remember back in verse [23], "And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body."

The "first fruits" of the Spirit are those that God will intercede in their lives to make these Scriptures come to pass. Both "the elect" and the "free will" Christians have the first fruits of the Spirit, when they are in the Will of God, and are in obedience to our heavenly Father.

God made some of His children similar in their compassion, like Jesus Christ had when He went to the cross. They care about those lost souls, and open themselves up to be used by the Father, and they strive to never be deceived by Satan. Though we might fall short at times, but spiritually we know that Satan is our adversary, and enemy.

Romans 8:30 "Moreover whom He did predestinate, them He also called: and whom He called, them He also justified: and whom He justified , them He glorified."

God is telling you here why He "predestined" them, and how He could do this and yet still have it all be in fairness to God. When God predestinated a person, He also "called" that person. There is a difference between "called" and "chosen"; for many are called, but few are chosen.When God called one to do His work, He also judged [justified] that person at that time.

The time of the judging was in the first earth age, at the time of the overthrow of Satan, before the foundations of this flesh age were formed. It was at that time that the Father made those that were "predestinated", "called and judged" [called the elect] to have a similar compassion for lost souls as Christ had. In that first earth age they became the "Zadok" or "the just", or "Elect" of this earth age.

 

[OneLight]

6 hours ago, n2thelight said:

God knowing who will choose Him I can't agree with.

The purpose of this age,age of the flesh is for us 2 make choice,if God already knew,it's no point for this age.

I would like to address these two statements

I agree that we have a free will to choose, while I also believe God is all knowing (Omniscience).  I also believe God can be everywhere at the same time (Omnipresent).  With these two attributes alone, I believe God does look down through time and sees the choices everyone makes, knowing the beginning from the end.  Since this is true to me, then God, allowing us to make our own choices, can see the end results of our lives, knowing if we are saved or not, which is why scripture tells us that He knows if our names are written in the book of life from the beginning of this world (Revelation 17:8).

The point of allowing us to choose is so those who truly love Him are shown by our choices.  God could of just made for Himself as many humans that love him as he wanted to, but He didn't.  He was looking for true love in humans, which is why we have free will to choose.  True love has to be by choice, which is why God allowed the angels to have a free will also.  This is why He allows us to live out the time we are given, to choose, and the purpose of this life.  Just because God already knows is no reason for true love to be expressed.  Remember "But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day."  God is patient and love never fails.  "Love suffers long and is kind; love does not envy; love does not parade itself, is not puffed up; does not behave rudely, does not seek its own, is not provoked, thinks no evil; does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth; bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.  Love never fails."