Just Pondering

[Ezra]

20 hours ago, missmuffet said:

Perhaps few will actually go in the rapture of the Church.

Not sure what you mean by this. All the saints on earth who are alive at the time of the Rapture will be caught up together with all those who died in Christ, and who are resurrected and taken up. While this may be "few" in relation to the world's total population, it will still be a very large number according to Revelation 7:9. As to how the disappearance of millions will be explained by those who are left behind is something which need not concern us.  No doubt fake news will be broadcast and accepted as fact.

The Rapture has always been imminent, but the Second Coming of Christ (which happens later) is closer now than ever before.  At the same time anyone who sets dates is asking for trouble.  What should really occupy Christians is not end-time events but the propagation of the Gospel.  This apparently is not what is happening, and instead we see many false Gospels, talk about blood moons, aliens, etc.

[OneLight]

52 minutes ago, missmuffet said:

Pre tribulation is not date setting. That is what we are supposed to stay away from. Such as saying September 15th will be the rapture. It is not a challenge. The Bible teaches a pretribulation rapture. Especially if a person reads Scripture literally.

Yes it is.  The prefix  "pre" means before, making the timing of the rapture as before the tribulation begins.  Though it does not try to state a specific day, it does place it in a timeline of before the tribulation.

Yet, I never used the term date setting, you did.  My exact request was " Please don't turn this into another pre-trib rapture debate.  I am interested in what Dennis1209 has to say without another debate. "

[missmuffet]

5 hours ago, Dennis1209 said:

It's interesting to me you didn't read the very first sentence of post #3 when I corrected myself.

Who is restraining unrestricted evil and demonic forces currently? The church is. Why? Because the Holy Spirit indwells in us as Christians. It's my pre-tribulation belief, that during the Rapture the Holy Spirit (the restrainer) is also taken away, clearing the way for unrestricted evil and deception. Though not completely, as earth dwellers will still have the opportunity to accept the Lord Jesus Christ as their savior. 

That is why I did not think I was out of bounds like Onelight said by saying you were referring to the pre trib rapture of the church. I differ because I do think that the Holy Spirit will remain on earth during the seven year tribulation because many will still come to Christ.

[Dennis1209]

2 hours ago, Ezra said:

Not sure what you mean by this. All the saints on earth who are alive at the time of the Rapture will be caught up together with all those who died in Christ, and who are resurrected and taken up. While this may be "few" in relation to the world's total population, it will still be a very large number according to Revelation 7:9. As to how the disappearance of millions will be explained by those who are left behind is something which need not concern us.  No doubt fake news will be broadcast and accepted as fact.

The Rapture has always been imminent, but the Second Coming of Christ (which happens later) is closer now than ever before.  At the same time anyone who sets dates is asking for trouble.  What should really occupy Christians is not end-time events but the propagation of the Gospel.  This apparently is not what is happening, and instead we see many false Gospels, talk about blood moons, aliens, etc.

You're talking about what our priorities should be, and I totally agree. However, do we stick our head in the sand and not pay attention and talk about what is going on around us, not to discern the times we live in? 

[Ezra]

1 minute ago, Dennis1209 said:

You're talking about what our priorities should be, and I totally agree. However, do we stick our head in the sand and not pay attention and talk about what is going on around us, not to discern the times we live in? 

If we are occupied with matters pertaining to the propagation of the Kingdom of God, we won't have much time left over for idle speculation about blood moons, Shemitahs, etc.

We know that we are already seeing the Great Apostasy of Christendom all around us.  All the more reason to propagate the true Gospel and Bible truth, since the coming of the Lord draweth nigh.

[Dennis1209]

6 minutes ago, missmuffet said:

That is why I did not think I was out of bounds like Onelight said by saying you were referring to the pre trib rapture of the church. I differ because I do think that the Holy Spirit will remain on earth during the seven year tribulation because many will still come to Christ.

I guess I'm not presenting my view correctly? I believe the 'Restrainer' is the "church". The Holy Spirit that indwells each believer in the church is removed (Raptured), then evil is unrestrained and can proceed with no resistance. The restrainer is taken out of the way. During the tribulation there's 144,000 Jewish evangelicals, two witnesses and an Angel proclaiming the Gospel.

[missmuffet]

2 hours ago, Dennis1209 said:

I guess I'm not presenting my view correctly? I believe the 'Restrainer' is the "church". The Holy Spirit that indwells each believer in the church is removed (Raptured), then evil is unrestrained and can proceed with no resistance. The restrainer is taken out of the way. During the tribulation there's 144,000 Jewish evangelicals, two witnesses and an Angel proclaiming the Gospel.

So you are talking about the Restrainer? I do not see that the Bible says who the restrainer is so it would only be my "opinion". But if you want my opinion I think it could possibly be the Antichrist.

[OneLight]

Let's take a look at 2 Thessalonians 2:5-12

Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? 6 And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. 7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Some bibles do not capitalize He, but use he.  Either way, this is singular, not plural.  I am sure if God meant the church, He would of said the church.  In fact, the ASV states "For the mystery of lawlessness doth already work: only there is one that restraineth now, until he be taken out of the way."  This cannot be the church.

[n2thelight]

On 2/4/2017 at 9:37 AM, Dennis1209 said:

Hi Missmuffet,

Yeah, I agree, as a pre-tribulation believer we will not be here to witness it here on earth. But... We should be seeing all the signs coming about increasing in frequency and intensity (birth pangs) if we're near the tribulation. Do we see ALL the signs coming together as we speak? If you own a 'bippy' you best bet on it :-) 

Unscientific polls have been taken in churches and Christian gatherings / conferences, and a survey question was asked. By a show of hands, how many people here have seen a UFO or had a UFO / alien experience. Each time from this unscientific informal poll, 5 - 30 percent raised their hands. I believe that's close to official secular polls taken on the subject.

Since we're on the subject, has anyone here seen what they consider a UFO? 

What signs,I thought there were'nt any?

[n2thelight]

Matthew 24:23 "Then if any man shall say unto you, 'Lo, here is Christ,' or 'there,' believe it not."

Matthew 24:26 "Wherefore if they shall say unto you, 'Behold, He is in the desert;' go not forth: 'Behold, He is in the secret chambers;' believe it not."

Matthew 24:29 "Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not have her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:"

Matthew 24:30 "And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory."

Matthew 24:31 "And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other."

This is the seventh and the last trumpet, and there will be no coming by Christ until that time, except the Spirit of God working within you. This is the time that the angels of God will go to every corner of the earth, and even to the heavens to gather the elect of God. Are you one of God's elect? Are you going to be in the field working for God, or wandering after the fake Christ?

How does He gather His Elect,if they were already gone?