Who or What has Determined your Theology

[Marilyn C]

On ‎5‎/‎02‎/‎2017 at 2:08 AM, warrior12 said:

 

What or who you think has been responsible for the way you perceive and interpret scripture.  I mean you have uncles and aunts and friends that are really good people, but you cannot see their view of what you read in the Bible and what is believed and practiced.   What is the driving force for the  theology   you have formulated in your christian walk .  Some have even changed course after long years as they have come to see scripture differently  as they previously had.  

Hi warrior12,

Good topic. I was brought up in an old Apostolic church, from the Welsh revival. I had excellent teachers etc and learned the purposes of God for the Body of Christ, for Israel and for the nations. This has stood me in good stead as regards understanding God`s word, and the Bible is not a jumble as it appears to some others. 

Having helped in different denominations has also given me a broader appreciation of what God has done through different people whatever the meeting they attend. The Holy Spirit continues to work despite man trying to lock Him in a box of denominational theology. It`s like the ducks in a pond who are kept in different cages, but the water level of the Holy Spirit in each generation keeps rising and all the ducks are swimming freely.

This generation has the most blessed opportunity to go on line and listen to great teachers, past and present. Also, as here at Worthy, we have the greatest opportunity to discuss with each other and if we have ears to hear we`ll hear the Holy Spirit`s correction or enlightenment in our midst. 

I`m always open to more of what the Holy Spirit is clarifying and revealing. Fresh manna from heaven, and always something to learn of our blessed saviour and Lord. 

Marilyn.

[warrior12]

On 6/29/2017 at 11:58 PM, Marilyn C said:

Hi warrior12,

Good topic. I was brought up in an old Apostolic church, from the Welsh revival. I had excellent teachers etc and learned the purposes of God for the Body of Christ, for Israel and for the nations. This has stood me in good stead as regards understanding God`s word, and the Bible is not a jumble as it appears to some others. 

Having helped in different denominations has also given me a broader appreciation of what God has done through different people whatever the meeting they attend. The Holy Spirit continues to work despite man trying to lock Him in a box of denominational theology. It`s like the ducks in a pond who are kept in different cages, but the water level of the Holy Spirit in each generation keeps rising and all the ducks are swimming freely.

This generation has the most blessed opportunity to go on line and listen to great teachers, past and present. Also, as here at Worthy, we have the greatest opportunity to discuss with each other and if we have ears to hear we`ll hear the Holy Spirit`s correction or enlightenment in our midst. 

I`m always open to more of what the Holy Spirit is clarifying and revealing. Fresh manna from heaven, and always something to learn of our blessed saviour and Lord. 

Marilyn.

Good to hear from you Marilyn  and your response is heartening.    

Ok, here is my main theme here .  So a man gets saved and he now decides or is convicted to go to church .  How does he choose that place of worship of affiliate himself with the denomination or group that he chooses. Does he just go to the nearest church nearby, does he start reading literature or christian books which can be based the authors theology and how does he choose to come to a home church if you get what i am saying. 

Maybe we can say he is now led by the Holy Spirit and goes to a pentecostal church.  What convictions was yours that led you to your choosing.   I know many here have said that they only get their teachings from the Bible, but from the very beginning of their new birth, the Bible would be like a baby drinking that milk and therefore would reach out to some place or align if i may use that word or to some preacher or some church that attracts  their liking or truths to the gospel.   Hope you see what i am trying to get at here.

We see even today, mature believers leave some places of worship and some of their theology stance has changed, like i remember one of the moderators has changed to a Calvinist belief that he previously did not hold to.    

[Marilyn C]

4 hours ago, warrior12 said:

Good to hear from you Marilyn  and your response is heartening.    

Ok, here is my main theme here .  So a man gets saved and he now decides or is convicted to go to church .  How does he choose that place of worship of affiliate himself with the denomination or group that he chooses. Does he just go to the nearest church nearby, does he start reading literature or christian books which can be based the authors theology and how does he choose to come to a home church if you get what i am saying. 

Maybe we can say he is now led by the Holy Spirit and goes to a pentecostal church.  What convictions was yours that led you to your choosing.   I know many here have said that they only get their teachings from the Bible, but from the very beginning of their new birth, the Bible would be like a baby drinking that milk and therefore would reach out to some place or align if i may use that word or to some preacher or some church that attracts  their liking or truths to the gospel.   Hope you see what i am trying to get at here.

We see even today, mature believers leave some places of worship and some of their theology stance has changed, like i remember one of the moderators has changed to a Calvinist belief that he previously did not hold to.    

Hi warrior,

Thank you and I`m enjoying the discussion also. I`ll just do a bit of history for those who don`t know regarding denominations. As we know the Lord Himself sent the Holy Spirit to guide us into all truth. Over the centuries as a truth became known, people who received it (eg baptism in full immersion) would gather together for encouragement etc. others who had not received that truth often felt threatened, and so persecution came, people put out of positions of power or even the assembly. Thus what was a move of the Holy Spirit in people`s lives, people now felt they had to formalise it and thus a denomination came into being.

This has happened again and again over the years, till we see these great denominations today. However as communication developed quickly, books, magazines, tapes, videos, etc especially in the `60`s and onwards, people started to read what others believed and as the Holy Spirit was more received in people`s lives, truths spread quickly. Thus you could attend most any public (church) meeting and generally, truths would be preached,-  till recently.

There is now the big push to `save the earth.` Songs, messages etc speak of our responsibility or even our so called God given authority, to `transform our world.` This is the big lie that Satan has been injecting into people`s theology, as most denominations have never really addressed the `where we all go and why.` (Eschatology - the biggest `tossed to & fro` area)

 So today as people can read & or watch messages from all over, they will mainly go to a fellowship where they feel welcome. It is for relationship that people look for and often they will attend a few different churches - one in the morning, one at night and maybe a different bible study or outreach group etc. As the `water level` of the Holy Spirit has arisen then the need to have to stand for a particular truth in a denomination is not needed. People desire true fellowship and opportunities to serve others.

It is a very interesting time. The power and control of the older denominations is dwindling and groups are springing up every where, for fellowship & service. Everything is being shaken and people are really having to address why they (we) do something, go somewhere, contribute to such and such - the responsibility is coming right back into our laps, where we have to be accountable.

regards, Marilyn. 

[Riccardo]

What ever one believes from the bible is now their doctrine beliefs, if you don't believe in a denominational doctrine, you have just created your own personalized club.

Each person will say the holy spirt has guided them yet they are opposed to each other, both can't be right but both can be wrong.

What I see as clear as day doctrine most are opposed. 

God talks of a remnant, Is there no remnant church denomination, that keep the commandments of God & have the testimony of Jesus.

Seek & yet shall find.  

 

 

[warrior12]

42 minutes ago, Riccardo said:

What I see as clear as day doctrine most are opposed. 

God talks of a remnant, Is there no remnant church denomination, that keep the commandments of God & have the testimony of Jesus.

Seek & yet shall find.  

Could you explain a bit more or give an example of the first sentence above. Also the second. Who do you think that remnant is ?.

[BobRyan]

13 hours ago, warrior12 said:

Could you explain a bit more or give an example of the first sentence above. Also the second. Who do you think that remnant is ?.

Rev 14:12 says the saints "keep the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" -- to find a discussion where one side argues the Commandments of God are deleted/nailed to the cross under the New Covenant - while another side argues that they remain and are written on the heart under the New Covenant - NT just as they were OT - all you have to do is look for a thread on the "TEN Commandments" or a thread that picks out one of the TEN to ignore or support.

Edited July 6, 2017 by BobRyan

[Willa]

3 hours ago, BobRyan said:

Rev 14:12 says the saints "keep the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" -- to find a discussion where one side argues the Commandments of God are deleted/nailed to the cross under the New Covenant - while another side argues that they remain and are written on the heart under the New Covenant - NT just as they were OT - all you have to do is look for a thread on the "TEN Commandments" or a thread that picks out one of the TEN to ignore or support.

Jesus said he gave us a new commandment, to love one another.  But it was not new.  He had also said we are to love the Lord our God with all our hearts souls strength and minds and our neighbors as ourselves.  Then we are told that we are to love each other as Christ did in giving His life for us.  All the law and the commandments are fulfilled by this love.  .  Christ is the only One who kept the requirements of the law perfectly.  He was the fulfillment of the law.  The law is for unbelievers show show us our need for a Savior.  

The Bible has determined my theology.  By searching it diligently to find out if these things are true, it has been shaped and refined over the years.  

[BobRyan]

6 hours ago, Willa said:

Jesus said he gave us a new commandment, to love one another.  But it was not new.  He had also said we are to love the Lord our God with all our hearts souls strength and minds and our neighbors as ourselves.  Then we are told that we are to love each other as Christ did in giving His life for us.

Matt 22 - the TWO greatest commandments - according to Christ - are still to be found in the Law of Moses

Deut 6:5 - Love God with all your heart

Lev 19:18 - Love your neighbor as yourself.

James 2 : 8 ⁸ If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you do well; ⁹ but if you show partiality, you commit sin,

 

Quote

 All the law and the commandments are fulfilled by this love.  .

 

Indeed - even the commandment "Do not take God's name in vain" fulfilled by loving God.

1 John 5:2-3 "This iS the Love of God - that we KEEP His Commandments"

1 Cor 7:19 "what matters is keeping the Commandments of God"

Under thee New Covenant the LAW is written on the heart and mind Hebrews 8:6-10

 

Quote

 Christ is the only One who kept the requirements of the law perfectly.  He was the fulfillment of the law.  

 

True - He was the only sinless one. He needed no salvation. He perfectly complied with commandments of God - including "do not take God's name in vain"

John 14:15 "If you Love Me - KEEP My Commandments"

Exodus 20:6 "Love Me and KEEP My Commandments" -- right in the TEN Commandments themselves

Quote

The law is for unbelievers show show us our need for a Savior.  

 

Rom 3:19-20 the role of the Law for unbelievers - is to condemn the sinner showing our need of Christ.

Romans 6, Romans 8:4-9 the Law for believers - is written on the heart Jeremiah 31:31-33 and we live a life in harmony with it 1 John 3:4

The Bible has determined my theology.  

 

Edited July 6, 2017 by BobRyan

[Omegaman 3.0]

On 2/4/2017 at 7:08 AM, warrior12 said:

What or who you think has been responsible for the way you perceive and interpret scripture.  I mean you have uncles and aunts and friends that are really good people, but you cannot see their view of what you read in the Bible and what is believed and practiced.   What is the driving force for the  theology   you have formulated in your christian walk .  Some have even changed course after long years as they have come to see scripture differently  as they previously had.  

I was raised an Atheist, or at the very least I was allowed to be one. I mentioned to my dad, that I was an atheist when I was 17, and he was furious. He told me "You have to be a complete void to be an Atheist!"

He seems shocked by that, I was shocked that he did not know that. He knew I loved science, my favorite topic. How could he not think I was an Atheist. I never saw he, nor my mother, nor my sister, pray, read the Bible, go to church, or talk about God!

A high school teacher, got me thinking about the topic of creation as a reasonable theory, not a superstition. I spent the next ten years of so, trying to prove him wrong. I was not able to do so, because science had taught be, not to evaluate information, and to be logical, to distinguish between mere ideas, and how to compare those ideas with objective data. Because of that, I lost my faith in evolution, and the idea that life sprung from inorganic material, and I lost any notion that the universe was eternal, or that it could spring out of nothing un-caused.

Settled science (so called) knew that the universe has a beginning, and that it morphed into something very impressive, almost seemed like the observations of how things behave, and what little facts we had from the present, seemed like it fit Genesis better, that it fit science literature.

So, that left me as some empty shell, knowing that I came from somewhere, somehow, but having no idea how I fit into the scheme of the universe. I had no faith in God, and no faith in a Godless universe. It was an odd time for me.

Not going into how i made the jump to Christian in this post, but at 29 years of age, I did. In my first year or two as a Christian, I became acquainted with John Warrick Montgomery and Walter Ralston Martin, through Christian radio at first, and then personally.

I would say that Dr. Montgomery did a lot to teach me how to think, while Dr. Martin helped me learn what to think. That is how I at first got up to speed, theologically. I read the Bible, attended churches, and was a very critical thinker about all of those things.

My theology these days, are the results of my own studies of scripture. I listen to what others say, and I tend to analyze that through the lens of scripture, keeping the good, tossing the bad, as best I can. It tends to give me strong opinions and convictions, and that upsets some. Still, I listen, and occasionally am convinced of the errors of my thinking.

The rules I depend on, right or wrong, prayer, and hopefully the Holy Spirit, all guide me, to accept things in the Bible, even if I do not like what they say. Who am I to say God is wrong, or to try to understand what He says, by what I think seems right, loving, fair, or comfortable? Nobody, that is who. So, I just do the best I can, with what God has given me, and he can correct me at His coming, if not sooner.

For those who might be interested in my "rules" for Bible study, I have them listed and explained.

[warrior12]

3 hours ago, Omegaman 3.0 said:

I would say that Dr. Montgomery did a lot to teach me how to think, while Dr. Martin helped me learn what to think. That is how I at first got up to speed, theologically. I read the Bible, attended churches, and was a very critical thinker about all of those things.

Thank you for your steadfast reply.  The sentence above stands out as what i sought to understand of a believer sway or thoughts behind his Biblical thinking and unraveling of scripture in his early christian walk.   Your entire reply have shown your beginnings to where you are today in  brief and i am sure you have had to work out many Biblical beliefs that many are  divided  with today, e.g  OSAS.   I think and please  correct me if i am mistaken, i have  read once where you did move to a Calvinistic view and i think you said it was later on of your walk .   [If you are inclined to do so, how did you come to this conclusion or what was the determining factor in brief ]. 

I would say  too, like Paul who said that in the beginning we drink milk, but as we progress with all the gifts of the God and the Holy Spirit guidance, we then start to eat meat, which is solid food and strengthens us to be a follower of Jesus Christ as best as we can.