The Abomination of Desolation

[iamlamad]

inchrist wrote,

Ecc. 12:7 says, “Our bodies will return to the dust of the earth, and the breath of life will go back to God, who gave it to us.”

All bodies return to the earth and all spirits [Gods breath] returns to God 

This is simply not truth: the bodies of those raptured will NOT return to the dust of the earth. Neither will their "breath" return to God. Jesus' body did not return to dust. Elijah's body did not, nor did Enoch's.  Neither did their breath return to God. Does our "breath" go back to God?  Did the rich man's "breath" go back to God before he was taken to hell?  Or does this just mean the rich man quit breathing?

Next, are you SURE the book of Ecc. is "God breathed?" Or is it just the ramblings of a man away from God?  FOR example, when Peter was telling Jesus that death should not happen to him (the devil speaking) were those words of Peter "God breathed?" Or was it just recorded for our benefit?  I would say those words of Peter were devil breathed.  Next, there are many chapters in the book of Job from His three friends. But when we get to the end of Job, we find out God said what they said was all wrong. So was what they said "God breathed?"

We need to be careful forming doctrine from Old Testament scriptures alone, without filtering them through the New Testament.  In the New Testament we get a different idea of "soul" than in the old.

I agree in general that most bodies do return to the earth. But the spirit with the soul (the LIFE with the memories) either go to heaven or go to hell. As Paul wrote, to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. This scripture has been proven hundreds of times over the past few years, as many people have died and gone to heaven, then were sent back to earth because someone prayed. Do you not read any of these testimonies?  In many cases they are carried by angels to heaven, and some have been carried by angels or Jesus Himself to see hell. They have their full mental facilities with them.  By the way, when the disciples saw Jesus walking on the water, did they think they saw a soul? No, they thought they were seeing a SPIRIT. 

All this proves that this body is just an earth-suit we wear while on earth, and at death it drops off and we are free of it. Then one day in the future we will get our new bodies.

[iamlamad]

18 hours ago, inchrist said:

Please provide scriptures about demons dragging human spirits to hell? 

Once again I find you forming doctrines from one verse and invinting what you wish 

Ecc. 12:7 says, “Our bodies will return to the dust of the earth, and the breath of life will go back to God, who gave it to us.”

All bodies return to the earth and all spirits [Gods breath] returns to God 

"The spirit of God ["the breath which God gave him,] is in my nostrils."Job 27:3.

This alone refutes the dangers of what you are saying.

Further if you read the parable of Lazarus and the rich man you will notice the following

the rich man also died, and was buried; and in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments....(Luke 16:22-23).

The rich man in hell lifted up his eyes.

And many of them that sleep [their eyes are closed while sleeping] in the dust of the earth [their graves -- buried-in "hades"], shall awake [lift up their eyes] some to everlasting life [Lazarus and Abraham] and some to shame and everlasting contempt" (Daniel 12:2).

 

Christ said: "...the hour is coming, in which all [of Gods people] that are in the graves shall hear His voice, and shall come forth: they that have done good, unto THE RESURRECTION OF LIFE: and they that have done evil [including the rich man], unto the RESURRECTION OF JUDGMENT" (John 5:28-29).

Further when Christ ressurected a Lazarus (John 11).....Lazarus makes no mention of angels escorting his spirit.

You don't think human spirits have eyes?

[iamlamad]

Retrobyter wrote,

Even the Resurrection and the Rapture-transport that immediately follows take time, as well! Suppose you were one of these messengers who was gathering resurrected individuals. After a few million people, you might be several hours into the task, as well.

Sorry, but when we are raptured, we will be as the angels, and no gathering will be needed. You are reading into a scripture what is not there. The gathering in Matthew 24 is not the rapture of the church. 

[iamlamad]

Concerning the 6th seal, Retrobyter wrote,

And, just how many atheists and agnostics and delusional narcissists do you know who even CONSULT the Bible?!

Sorry, but Revelation, for the most part, is written to the Jews. Most Jews and Hebrews will know Isaiah 2.

But aside from all that, if anyone studies the "Day of the Lord" in the Old Covenant, they will KNOW the trumpets are a part of the Day of the Lord: it is God destroying this world and the sinners in the world. So in fact, those people KNOW it is the Day of the Lord and they are correct in what they are saying.  Did you look up "perplexed" in the KJV in the book of Joel? Compare it with the first trumpet judgment.

[iamlamad]

Retrobyter wrote,

I see only ONE Coming and within that Coming will be the First Resurrection/Rapture-transport.

Wow! I could think of many adjectives to put here, but I don't wish this thread to be stopped.

My friend, do you actually READ the bible and believe what you read?  If your statement was true, which it is NOT, NO ONE that has died or will be alive at His coming would be at Christ's marriage and supper, which will take place in heaven BEFORE He descends.

Oh, I get it: like all posttribbers, you must REARRANGE what John as written.

[iamlamad]

Retrobyter wrote,

It will take TIME to equip His armies and His cavalry. The war itself that He will wage with His armies will also take time!

Wow! And again another WOW.  You simply amaze me. Jesus will be coming from HEAVEN with His armies all ready for battle. They will all be on HEAVENLY horses. When the battle begins it will be over in seconds: only time enough for Jesus to speak.  You do understand, don't you, that people fighting God have no chance whatsoever?

[Retrobyter]

2 hours ago, iamlamad said:

You don't think human spirits have eyes?

Shalom, iamlamad.

Nope. A spirit, human or animal, is a BREATH, a WIND! Have you EVER seen a wind with eyes?! You won't find any such thing in the Bible, either.

 

[iamlamad]

3 minutes ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, iamlamad.

Nope. A spirit, human or animal, is a BREATH, a WIND! Have you EVER seen a wind with eyes?! You won't find any such thing in the Bible, either.

 

Matthew 14:26

And when the disciples saw him walking on the sea, they were troubled, saying, It is a spirit; and they cried out for fear.

 

It seems even the disciples disagree with you. 

 

Matthew 26:41

Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.

A breath is willing? NOT!

Matthew 3:16

And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:

The Holy Spirit is a breath? Get real!

Mark 5:9

And he asked him, What is thy name? And he answered, saying, My name is Legion: for we are many.

¹² And all the devils besought him, saying, Send us into the swine, that we may enter into them.

A "breath" has a name, can think and can speak? Get real!

Matthew 8:16

When the even was come, they brought unto him many that were possessed with devils: and he cast out the spirits with his word, and healed all that were sick:

He cast out breaths? Get real! These are BEINGS. Our spirit is a BEING. We ARE a spirit being possessing a soul.

 

God is a Spirit: is He only a breath? Get real!

 

Edited February 28, 2017 by iamlamad

[Retrobyter]

2 hours ago, iamlamad said:

Retrobyter wrote,

It will take TIME to equip His armies and His cavalry. The war itself that He will wage with His armies will also take time!

Wow! And again another WOW.  You simply amaze me. Jesus will be coming from HEAVEN with His armies all ready for battle. They will all be on HEAVENLY horses. When the battle begins it will be over in seconds: only time enough for Jesus to speak.  You do understand, don't you, that people fighting God have no chance whatsoever?

Shalom, iamlamad.

Heavens to Betsy! "HEAVENLY horses?!" You really don't understand "heaven" at all. Either that, or you don't understand what a "horse" is! You know, an animal with four legs built for running but no wings? Or, are you hoping to ride a "Pegasus?"

[Ezra]

12 minutes ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, iamlamad.

Heavens to Betsy! "HEAVENLY horses?!" You really don't understand "heaven" at all. Either that, or you don't understand what a "horse" is! You know, an animal with four legs built for running but no wings? Or, are you hoping to ride a "Pegasus?"

Retro,

Scripture makes it crystal clear that there are indeed heavenly horses. No need to make fun of people who accept these things without argument.  Of course, you don't believe in Heaven, so it is obvious why you reject heavenly horses.  But here is the Scripture which clearly refutes your beliefs (Revelation 19:14):  And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

So if the armies were in Heaven, and came riding out of Heaven on white horses, it follows that these were heavenly horses.