OneLight Posted February 12, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.23 Reputation: 9,762 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted February 12, 2017 4 hours ago, Spirit Driven said: aaahhh the Doctrine of Man has Free Will to accept or Reject God ? = Demonic Doctrines warned of in 1 Timothy 4 What is free will? Free will is a doctrine that teaches that man can act independently of God. This should already ring sour to the spiritually-attuned ear. The doctrine of free will teaches that man has the freedom to choose or reject God, never mind the verse that says no man is seeking God (Rom. 3:11). In other words, in the doctrine of free will, man becomes the deciding factor in his own salvation. Jesus Christ’s work on the cross, according to this doctrine, was only a potential salvation, not an actual one. According to this doctrine, the cross of Christ never saved anybody; the cross only saves those who decide to be saved. What about the verse that says no one can come to the Son unless the Father draws him? (Jn. 6:44). Never mind it. What about the verses that say God is the Savior of all mankind (1 Tim. 4:10), and that the blood of the cross will reconcile all to Him (Col. 1:20), whether those on the earth or those in the heavens? Never mind them. Then what about the verse that says God is operating all things in accord with the counsel of His will? (Eph. 1:11) Yes, it is Gods desire that all would accept salvation, but those who do not have chosen their fate, ummmm I think you need to look a bit deeper It saddens me when I see someone who claims to be a Christian follow this theology. As you already know, I fully disagree with your theology. You would have to ignore all the scriptures that that points to a choice being made for Christ, as in Joshua 24:15 "And if it seems evil to you to serve the Lord, choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you dwell. But as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord." You must believe that Joshua was following the doctrine of demons. 1 Timothy 4:1-5 does speak of deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, yet he also tells us what he meant. Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron, forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from foods which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth. For every creature of God is good, and nothing is to be refused if it is received with thanksgiving; for it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer. What belief teaches such things? Then you try to use Romans 3:11 out of context. Paul was showing that man, without Christ, cannot be saved as the sinful nature of man does not seek who God truly is, as they do not understand the full nature of God, but their understanding of God. Romans 3:9-20 What then? Are we better than they? Not at all. For we have previously charged both Jews and Greeks that they are all under sin. As it is written: “There is none righteous, no, not one; There is none who understands; There is none who seeks after God. They have all turned aside; They have together become unprofitable; There is none who does good, no, not one.” “Their throat is an open tomb; With their tongues they have practiced deceit”; “The poison of asps is under their lips”; “Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness.” “Their feet are swift to shed blood; Destruction and misery are in their ways; And the way of peace they have not known.” “There is no fear of God before their eyes.” Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. 20 Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin. Taking this passage in context shows us that Paul is teaching the difference between choosing to live under the law compared to accepting Christ. John 6:44 goes hand in hand with John 3:16-17 ... let's look John 6:41-51 The Jews then complained about Him, because He said, “I am the bread which came down from heaven.” And they said, “Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How is it then that He says, ‘I have come down from heaven’?” Jesus therefore answered and said to them, “Do not murmur among yourselves. No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day. It is written in the prophets, ‘And they shall all be taught by God.’ Therefore everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to Me. Not that anyone has seen the Father, except He who is from God; He has seen the Father. Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me has everlasting life. I am the bread of life. Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and are dead. This is the bread which comes down from heaven, that one may eat of it and not die. I am the living bread which came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever; and the bread that I shall give is My flesh, which I shall give for the life of the world.” John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. Look at both passages we see that first God so loved the world that he gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him ... that the world through Him might be saved. A choice. We can also see that we all shall be taught by God and everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to Me. Another choice. I could go on with many more proofs against your theology, but that wold hog up a lot of forum real estate. Tell me, why would Jesus come to John in Revelation 2&3, speaking of the 7 churches , and give them a choice if it were not true? Why are sinners told to repent if there is no choice? Why would anyone bother to tell people of Christ if there was no choice to be made? You see, false teachings begin when people cherry pick scripture, pulling verses out of context, and create a belief by twisting scripture, as your theology does. You see, God did create us with the ability to choose, otherwise why would God even create millions/billions of people only to suffer for eternity in the lake of fire? How do you see this as a loving God? Wouldn't it of been better to not of been born if we most do not have a choice to live forever with the Creator? Seems like a very wicked god who love to see people suffer, which is exactly what scripture is against. Remember, God so loved the world! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTC Posted February 12, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 18 Topic Count: 200 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 2,795 Content Per Day: 0.65 Reputation: 1,502 Days Won: 1 Joined: 06/25/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/26/1952 Share Posted February 12, 2017 I don't believe in universalism but the reasons some people do may be some of the same reasons that made me think the soul isn't immortal. But I didn't read this thread. I think there is a judgement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jewels7 Posted February 12, 2017 Group: Senior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 713 Content Per Day: 0.27 Reputation: 351 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/10/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted February 12, 2017 3 hours ago, OneLight said: It saddens me when I see someone who claims to be a Christian follow this theology. I'd like clarification please. Do you typically challenge a Christian's faith when a Christian opines in a manner you disagree with in matters of scripture and teachings? Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted February 12, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.23 Reputation: 9,762 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted February 12, 2017 Just now, Jewels7 said: I'd like clarification please. Do you typically challenge a Christian's faith when a Christian opines in a manner you disagree with in matters of scripture and teachings? Thanks. This depends on what the subject mater is. When it comes to issues about salvation, you bet. Other doctrine that has nothing to do with salvation, I try to not comment unless what someone says is really out in left field. May I ask why you asked? Do you think scripture can be seen in the light of postmodern ideals, what is true for you may not be true for me, but both are true, or do you believe there is only one truth from scripture? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jewels7 Posted February 12, 2017 Group: Senior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 713 Content Per Day: 0.27 Reputation: 351 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/10/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted February 12, 2017 1 minute ago, OneLight said: This depends on what the subject mater is. When it comes to issues about salvation, you bet. Other doctrine that has nothing to do with salvation, I try to not comment unless what someone says is really out in left field. May I ask why you asked? Do you think scripture can be seen in the light of postmodern ideals, what is true for you may not be true for me, but both are true, or do you believe there is only one truth from scripture? Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted February 12, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.23 Reputation: 9,762 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted February 12, 2017 Just now, Jewels7 said: Thank you. Are you going to answer my questions? You want to know more about me, so I answer. I would like to know more about you also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jewels7 Posted February 12, 2017 Group: Senior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 713 Content Per Day: 0.27 Reputation: 351 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/10/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted February 12, 2017 7 hours ago, Spirit Driven said: aaahhh the Doctrine of Man has Free Will to accept or Reject God ? = Demonic Doctrines warned of in 1 Timothy 4 What is free will? Free will is a doctrine that teaches that man can act independently of God. This should already ring sour to the spiritually-attuned ear. The doctrine of free will teaches that man has the freedom to choose or reject God, never mind the verse that says no man is seeking God (Rom. 3:11). In other words, in the doctrine of free will, man becomes the deciding factor in his own salvation. Jesus Christ’s work on the cross, according to this doctrine, was only a potential salvation, not an actual one. According to this doctrine, the cross of Christ never saved anybody; the cross only saves those who decide to be saved. What about the verse that says no one can come to the Son unless the Father draws him? (Jn. 6:44). Never mind it. What about the verses that say God is the Savior of all mankind (1 Tim. 4:10), and that the blood of the cross will reconcile all to Him (Col. 1:20), whether those on the earth or those in the heavens? Never mind them. Then what about the verse that says God is operating all things in accord with the counsel of His will? (Eph. 1:11) Yes, it is Gods desire that all would accept salvation, but those who do not have chosen their fate, ummmm I think you need to look a bit deeper I can certainly see your point here about free will. We are told because of our sin we are unable to relate to God's mind. There is a barrier between ourselves and the divine. We are also informed that God predestined all things prior to their creation and that his will is not like unto ours. I think what transpires in conversations of this human nature is the failure most times for people who argue we do have free will to define what they believe free will is. Very often their defense of free will is confused with the meaning behind choice and decision making. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwikphilly Posted February 12, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 96 Topic Count: 307 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 18,136 Content Per Day: 4.63 Reputation: 27,817 Days Won: 327 Joined: 08/03/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted February 12, 2017 Blessings Jewel "Free Will" confused with meaning behind choices & decision making? Perhaps you are confused about the difference between predetermination & predestination? Maybe you can clarify & tell me ,in your own words ,what you understand "Free Will" to mean? As far as the question you had for One Light.... Quote Do you typically challenge a Christian's faith when a Christian opines in a manner you disagree with in matters of scripture and teachings? I agree with him 100% and just to clarify ,he (nor I) would ever challenge anyone's Faith simply because we may disagree on some non Salvational issues,its just not matter of life & death......when a person says they are a Christian & yet everything they say opposes the Word of God then a red flag goes up it it is not only a matter of life & death but also there is great urgency,no one is guaranteed "later,tomorrow,another day" You can say the Bible says the lame man jumped up,sprang up or just stood up & I may believe he "leaped"......it is of no consequence to have misinterpreted because of a different "translation" but no matter how it is translated the Word of God tells us there is but One Way to the Father.....the Way,the Truth & the Life....Christ Jesus With love-in Christ,Kwik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jewels7 Posted February 12, 2017 Group: Senior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 713 Content Per Day: 0.27 Reputation: 351 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/10/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted February 12, 2017 17 minutes ago, kwikphilly said: Blessings Jewel "Free Will" confused with meaning behind choices & decision making? Perhaps you are confused about the difference between predetermination & predestination? Maybe you can clarify & tell me ,in your own words ,what you understand "Free Will" to mean? As far as the question you had for One Light.... I agree with him 100% and just to clarify ,he (nor I) would ever challenge anyone's Faith simply because we may disagree on some non Salvational issues,its just not matter of life & death......when a person says they are a Christian & yet everything they say opposes the Word of God then a red flag goes up it it is not only a matter of life & death but also there is great urgency,no one is guaranteed "later,tomorrow,another day" You can say the Bible says the lame man jumped up,sprang up or just stood up & I may believe he "leaped"......it is of no consequence to have misinterpreted because of a different "translation" but no matter how it is translated the Word of God tells us there is but One Way to the Father.....the Way,the Truth & the Life....Christ Jesus With love-in Christ,Kwik No, I'm not confused by any terms I incorporate into my discussions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwikphilly Posted February 12, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 96 Topic Count: 307 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 18,136 Content Per Day: 4.63 Reputation: 27,817 Days Won: 327 Joined: 08/03/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted February 12, 2017 Blessings Jewel Quote No, I'm not confused by any terms I incorporate into my discussions. Okay great ...so then I will ask again" Maybe you can clarify & tell me ,in your own words ,what you understand "Free Will" to mean? " Of course you don't have to answer if you cannot or just prefer not to............. With love-in Christ,Kwik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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