Universalism?

[warrior12]

15 hours ago, Spirit Driven said:

In fact eventualy you will discover that the Salvation of all is already a done deal as far as God and Jesus are concerned, at the Cross. You have already mentioned that you think you have started to see something in Scripture that seems to support Universal Salvation, that is the Holy Spirit Guiding you, as I said before I reckon it is God that wants you searching out the Truth for yourself.

Not according to what brother Paul had to say about it.   

Galatians 5King James Version (KJV)

¹⁹ Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,

²⁰ Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,

²¹ Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

[Jewels7]

17 minutes ago, Spirit Driven said:

Confirmed by Scripture from all over the Bible, hey I never used to be a Christian, I think part of Gods plan for me was he wanted my Father to pull our Family out of the Church when I was so young so that I would not be brainwashed by the Religiouse Pharisees of this day. So when God decided to call me back into his family part of that Supernatural Experience I had was becoming aware of his Intentions towards all Man kind, after All I was just an Unchurched Sinner, you do not get much more Untainted by the Pharisees of this day  than that. However as I said in a previouse Post It is not my place to Soften anybody that God is in the process of hardening.....but I do get the feeling somebody is meant to hear, although I don't know who it is.

Later People

I underlined the part of your reply that I especially enjoyed. Wise words that could save a lot of stress for those hoping to change minds. God's will is all over the place.

 

  "[No-one] can, of their own power, abstain from sin. Only God's grace enables men to be virtuous. Since we all inherit Adam's sin, we all deserve eternal damnation. All who die unbaptized, even infants, will go to hell and suffer unending torment. We have no reason to complain of this, since we all wicked. [...] But by God's grace certain people, among those who have been baptized, are chosen to go to heaven; these are the elect. They do not go to heaven because they are good; we are all totally depraved, except in so far as God's grace, which is only bestowed on the elect, enables us to be otherwise. No reason can be given why some are saved and the rest damned; this is due to God's unmotivated choice." Augustine of Hippo

Revelation is a great evidence for predeterminism.  

Revelation 13:8

  "Who (God) hath saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was granted us in Christ Jesus from all eternity.” 2 Timothy 1:9

 

 

[MorningGlory]

There is ONE God, ONE Heaven and ONE hell.   Both Heaven and hell are eternal and the only way to the Father is through the Son, our Lord Jesus.  Since it is outside of those precepts, univeralism is heresy.

[Jewels7]

8 minutes ago, missmuffet said:

Are you referring to pg.1 where I posted "Got Questions"?. Otherwise I do not see a post where I quoted a verse from Paul.

Forgive me, I didn't say you quoted a verse from Paul. I was referring to this exchange. As I mentioned in my initial post. Yowm's remarks are first and then your reply. Which is what I was asking you about in my question about the apostle Paul. 

 

[Jewels7]

2 minutes ago, MorningGlory said:

There is ONE God, ONE Heaven and ONE hell.   Both Heaven and hell are eternal and the only way to the Father is through the Son, our Lord Jesus.  Since it is outside of those precepts, univeralism is heresy.

How so? Do you know what Universalism teaches?

[missmuffet]

6 minutes ago, Jewels7 said:

Forgive me, I didn't say you quoted a verse from Paul. I was referring to this exchange. As I mentioned in my initial post. Yowm's remarks are first and then your reply. Which is what I was asking you about in my question about the apostle Paul. 

 

That is my belief that the experience can be deceiving. You have to be very sure that Satan does not have his part in it.

[OneLight]

30 minutes ago, Jewels7 said:

I underlined the part of your reply that I especially enjoyed. Wise words that could save a lot of stress for those hoping to change minds. God's will is all over the place.

 

  "[No-one] can, of their own power, abstain from sin. Only God's grace enables men to be virtuous. Since we all inherit Adam's sin, we all deserve eternal damnation. All who die unbaptized, even infants, will go to hell and suffer unending torment. We have no reason to complain of this, since we all wicked. [...] But by God's grace certain people, among those who have been baptized, are chosen to go to heaven; these are the elect. They do not go to heaven because they are good; we are all totally depraved, except in so far as God's grace, which is only bestowed on the elect, enables us to be otherwise. No reason can be given why some are saved and the rest damned; this is due to God's unmotivated choice." Augustine of Hippo

Revelation is a great evidence for predeterminism.  

Revelation 13:8

  "Who (God) hath saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was granted us in Christ Jesus from all eternity.” 2 Timothy 1:9

Please clarify what you mean by predeterminism.  I could not find it in the dictionary.

Also, Revelation 13:8 speaks of worshiping the beast of the sea.  I don't see how this fits into your post.

[missmuffet]

9 minutes ago, OneLight said:

Please clarify what you mean by predeterminism.  I could not find it in the dictionary.

Also, Revelation 13:8 speaks of worshiping the beast of the sea.  I don't see how this fits into your post.

This is what I find:

Question: "What does the Bible say about predetermination?"

Answer: In theology, predetermination is the act of God by which He foreordained every event throughout eternity. Everything, from the flight of a sparrow to path of a hurricane, was destined to occur by God in eternity past in the exact manner in which it occurs. As a leaf falls off a tree, it follows the exact course God planned for it to take from branch to ground when He created the universe; when a duck glides across the surface of a pond, the height and spacing of the ripples it makes were all foreordained by God. The One who holds the universe together (Colossians 1:17) has a plan, and His plan is being accomplished.

Predetermination is also called causal determination; when God is the determiner, it can also be called theological determination. Predetermination is related to predestination, although the latter term is usually specific to God’s choice of who would be saved (see Romans 8:30).

All prophecy reveals the fact of predetermination. Daniel 11, for example, contains dozens of detailed prophecies concerning future events in Persia, Greece, Egypt, and other nations. Three times, the phrase at the appointed time is used (Daniel 11:27, 29, 35). So, all these things will happen (it’s a certainty), and they will happen at the appointed time—appointed by whom? By God in His predetermination.

Also in Daniel 11 we have the “willful king” prophecy about the Antichrist: “The king will do as he pleases. He will exalt and magnify himself above every god and will say unheard-of things against the God of gods. He will be successful until the time of wrath is completed, for what has been determined must take place” (verse 36). Note the last clause: what has been determined must take place. The events that Daniel sees must happen. Why must they happen? They have been determined (by God) to take place.

Some argue that prophecy simply reveals the foreknowledge of an omniscient God without implying His determination. In other words, God can see the future without choosing it. The counter-argument is that, if God sees a future event and states that it will happen, then that event has essentially been predetermined because, if it fails to happen or if something else happens instead, then God is either unknowlegeable or a liar. If God prophesies it, it will occur; the course is set; the destiny is sealed. Also, Daniel 11:36 clearly speaks of predetermination concerning the “time of wrath.”

An obvious problem that arises regarding predetermination is the idea of man’s free will. If God has predetermined all things, then are humans nothing but passive game pieces moved about by the Divine Hand? No, the Bible also teaches human responsibility, which implies free will. Jesus said, “Woe to the world because of the things that cause people to stumble! Such things must come, but woe to the person through whom they come!” (Matthew 18:7). When Jesus says that sins “must come,” He speaks of predetermination. When He pronounces a woe on those through whom sins come, He speaks of personal responsibility. In some incomprehensible way, God’s predetermination does not negate our accountability in the choices we make. God is sovereign, yet our choices are real.

Acts 4:27–28 is another passage that reflects the predetermination of God. The early church in Jerusalem prays, “Herod and Pontius Pilate met together with the Gentiles and the people of Israel in this city to conspire against your holy servant Jesus, whom you anointed. They did what your power and will had decided beforehand should happen.” There are several remarkable statements in this prayer: God’s “power” and “will” were involved in “deciding beforehand” what would happen. That’s predetermination. Jesus is the “anointed” or “chosen” one. That’s predetermination. Even more mind-boggling is what was predetermined: the wicked conspiracy of Herod and Pilate and the mob to murder Jesus. The Son of God was crucified, yet that wicked act is covered by God’s predetermination. It’s no wonder that the prayer begins with “Sovereign Lord” (verse 24).

Joseph acknowledged the predetermination of God in Egypt when he forgave his brothers of their wickedness toward him: “You intended to harm me, but God intended it for good to accomplish what is now being done, the saving of many lives” (Genesis 50:20). Man’s intention is directly contrasted with God’s intention regarding the same event.

A belief in predetermination lets God be God:
“I am the first and I am the last;
apart from me there is no God.
Who then is like me? Let him proclaim it.
Let him declare and lay out before me
what has happened since I established my ancient people,
and what is yet to come—
yes, let them foretell what will come.
Do not tremble, do not be afraid.
Did I not proclaim this and foretell it long ago?”
(Isaiah 44:6–8)

Part of what identifies God as the Sovereign Ruler is the fact that He proclaimed “long ago” what will happen.

Scripture teaches that God’s predetermination results in God’s glory. God predetermined the crucifixion of Christ, with the result that salvation is possible and God is glorified. God predetermined the abuse of Joseph, with the result that many lives were saved (and God was glorified). God predetermined that Jonah preach in Nineveh, and, despite Jonah’s ideas to the contrary, he preached there, with the result that the whole city repented (and God was glorified). God has predetermined the events of your life, too, and He will be glorified in you.

https://www.gotquestions.org/predetermination.html

[OneLight]

9 minutes ago, Spirit Driven said:

Very True could not agree more with Paul here, So what was I missing ? after all God was hardening these people to the way they where, So why did he show me that nobody will be lost to him ? It took a bit of Time and research to work it out, but I got there eventualy, as we all will get there eventualy.

It was simple in the end The Doctrine of Eternal Torment is a Lie, one of the Doctrines of Demons warned of in 1 Timothy 4, as it turns out God does things in Eras,not in Eternitys 

Era Punishment is for the Purpose of Correction of restoration to Righteousness ( The Restitution of all things) It came as no surprise to me in the end That God does not need forever with out end for people to see things his way. Like The Rich Man and Lazerus, right now the Rich Man is looking Forward to the second Coming of Jesus to be released from his Punishment, because his Sins where paid for at the Cross as well, so come the Great White Throne all of the teachers of Eternal Torment and Man has Free Will go to Era Punishment, that is what they are currently being hardened for. I reckon they will see things Gods way about Saving all fairly quickly, like even as they fall into the Great Galactic Bug Zapper of Gehenna LOL, but they are not lost to God, they just learned the Hard way, we see them again when God makes All things New including them (luckily for them), but as I said it is not my place to try and warn them about what is soon to befall these modern day Pharisees.

You obviously do not believe in the bible.  Tell me, what is the purpose of this life if everything is predetermined and we have absolutely no choice in anything?  Why waste the time and not just skip this life and move onto the next?

[warrior12]

26 minutes ago, Spirit Driven said:

Era Punishment is for the Purpose of Correction of restoration to Righteousness ( The Restitution of all things) It came as no surprise to me in the end That God does not need forever with out end for people to see things his way. Like The Rich Man and Lazerus, right now the Rich Man is looking Forward to the second Coming of Jesus to be released from his Punishment, because his Sins where paid for at the Cross as well, so come the Great White Throne all of the teachers of Eternal Torment and Man has Free Will go to Era Punishment, that is what they are currently being hardened for. I reckon they will see things Gods way about Saving all fairly quickly, like even as they fall into the Great Galactic Bug Zapper of Gehenna LOL, but they are not lost to God, they just learned the Hard way, we see them again when God makes All things New including them (luckily for them), but as I said it is not my place to try and warn them about what is soon to befall these modern day Pharisees.

Any scripture to back up your speech or did this come with the situation you had.?    The catholics have the doctrine of purgatory where they can pray for the dead ect. Do you have any doctrine or is it your  idea.

Just want to add. I myself have had some trials with the spiritual realm and i don't discuss it .  So i don't discredit a person if he or she mentions about things they may have had encounters with. It is yours and if  you choose to express it, then you have to state it clearly and prepare for criticism  and scrutiny.    I can say more about this, but it is a very difficult thing to express and explain.