Jewels7 Posted February 16, 2017 Group: Senior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 713 Content Per Day: 0.27 Reputation: 351 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/10/2017 Status: Offline Author Share Posted February 16, 2017 2 minutes ago, simplejeff said: Well, think about this. Look at the varied answers people have given for centuries. Almost always they ignore one SCRIPTURE to promote what it is they choose to believe. Few ever accept all of SCRIPTURE, and the TRUTH is that all of SCRIPTURE is truth - unchanging, unchangeable, when understood as God grants understanding. This is quite obvious almost everywhere, when men's ideas are accept (even for centuries), supported by some SCRIPTURE, but does violence to other SCRIPTURE. i.e. Let GOD'S WORD ALL BE TRUE, though every man a liar. This was one of the first things taught me that enabled me (and others anywhere, all along) to first of all trust GOD, completely, and not to trust men, if they said ANYTHING contrary to SCRIPTURE. There were posted (not in this thread, but on this forum) over 20 posts in the last few hours that deny some SCRIPTURE in order to support some idea or doctrine of men. A couple years ago it overwhelmed me, drained me, as it is never-ending; then one or more moderators on this site or another site told me "don't try to answer all of them; just a few" ; and that is what I started doing. It has been a big relief too. The OP question: or more generally , "When is anyone saved?" Jesus answered this several times, in SCRIPTURE. (note that the english/ western world thinking/ doesn't carry over the same meaning as the original languages - i.e. differs from GOD'S BREATHED WORD/meaning). For instance, when God SAVED someone's crop, does not contradict any SCRIPTURE. But to say their crop was SAVED every year does contradict some SCRIPTURE. Or again, God saved the people of Nineveh , right ? But to say they were all saved is not right - God later destroyed them. i.e. Very often english/ western thinking does not take into consideration the time or the timing involved, nor the differences in God's meaning when a person or something else was, is , or will be SAVED. I appreciate your time in giving that detailed answer. Someone applied what I believe to be a proper correction to the OP question so that it would read, when did the Disciples realize they were saved? That is the question. Not that of, when do people realize they are saved. Because the Disciples were those brothers that walked with Christ as he delivered the new covenant message of salvation and redemption and the law as it pertained to that. The question then in the narrative of Jesus' gospel ministry is, when did the Disciples realize they were saved under that covenant? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted February 16, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 596 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,043 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,785 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted February 16, 2017 well, I have said it in many other threads and I'll say it again that they attained eternal life when they were filled with the Spirit on Pentecost. Everyone I know received the Holy Spirit after they acknowledge Jesus as thier Lord (Believe on) and believe that the Father raised him from the dead. However for the Apostles and Disciples, that was not available until Pentecost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Your closest friendnt Posted February 16, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 18 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,824 Content Per Day: 2.41 Reputation: 2,753 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/05/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted February 16, 2017 14 minutes ago, woundeddog said: yes, thats part of it Hi Woundeddog, that is the most important, the most essential element of the Gospel. There are many other elements in the Gospel, and those elements are for the Saved ones, And the no compliance with one or more of those elements, can not judge the most essential element that we ascend to where JESUS CHRIST is at the time of our death. The no compliance with one or more of the other elements no matter how essential someone may thing it is, can not stop or reverse the ascention of the believer into Heaven. The basic truth remains that without the compliance to the most essential element , we can not have the secondary elements into place. Neither as some claim that complience with the secondary elements, but without complience to the most important element, can trigger someone's ascention into Heaven at the time of their death. We have to keep in mind, who is appointed as a Judge to all mankind. The Heavenly Father is not the one, but he has appointed JESUS to be the one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jewels7 Posted February 16, 2017 Group: Senior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 713 Content Per Day: 0.27 Reputation: 351 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/10/2017 Status: Offline Author Share Posted February 16, 2017 And yet, that is exactly how God purposed it before the world began. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Your closest friendnt Posted February 16, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 18 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,824 Content Per Day: 2.41 Reputation: 2,753 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/05/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted February 16, 2017 57 minutes ago, other one said: well, I have said it in many other threads and I'll say it again 57 minutes ago, other one said: that they attained eternal life when they were filled with the Spirit on Pentecost. It can not be said that by reading what took place in the day of Pentecost, And having in mind the instructions why they had to be gather in the upper room will result in the attaining of the eternal life. I may say for someone who reads the scriptures, that you believe that Jesus is the Eternal Life. And the resurrection and the truth. You know that Jesus said; I am the Truth and the Life, and also said " I am the eternal life, and anyone who believes in me has the eternal life. What do you mean by saying " that they attained the eternal life when they were filled with the Holy Ghost". If you meant to say that they did not have the eternal life, that sounds contrary to the scriptures. And when they were baptized with the Spirit that's when they were filled with the Spirit. It is not the same as been filled with the Spirit without being baptized in the Spirit. Or for anyone else who is baptized in the Spirit , may asked at the moment of extreme anger, to be filled with the Spirit and find his peace . I am not sure if you have something else in mind, that the Holy Spirit will guide them in obedience to the truth and the eternal life, which can be said in other words, in obedience to Jesus Christ by correction and revalation, and by renewing of their minds. Jesus is the Eternal Life, he is the Life, and was the LIFE from the beginning. After his mission and his obedience to go to the Cross, he became the eternal life, and after his death , after the shedding of his blood, he could give the eternal life to all who believe in him. 57 minutes ago, other one said: Everyone I know received the Holy Spirit after they acknowledge Jesus as thier Lord (Believe on) and believe that the Father raised him from the dead. One issue at a time, another time I will post my comments. 57 minutes ago, other one said: However for the Apostles and Disciples, that was not available until Pentecost. That's a good observation for study . I believe JESUS said to them that they will be on their own for that period of time. That helped the disciples to understand the deference, from being with the Holy Spirit. From the day of Pentecost and there on the Holy Spirit had to continually guiding them in obedience to the truth. They had JESUS, and were in JESUS before the Pentecost , and had the eternal life from the moment they believed after the resuraction that Jesus had to die first for the forgiveness of our sins, and then raised from the dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woundeddog Posted February 17, 2017 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 44 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,370 Content Per Day: 0.25 Reputation: 1,054 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/21/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/18/1868 Share Posted February 17, 2017 1 hour ago, Yowm said: I don't tell them 'Jesus died for you in God's mind before the worlds neither do I- but in the context of a believers discussion I think its okay~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted February 17, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 596 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,043 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,785 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted February 17, 2017 you are not in a saved status until you have the Holy Spirit..... and for that one unique time period, it happened at Pentecost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Your closest friendnt Posted February 17, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 18 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,824 Content Per Day: 2.41 Reputation: 2,753 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/05/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted February 17, 2017 2 hours ago, other one said: you are not in a saved status until you have the Holy Spirit..... and for that one unique time period, it happened at Pentecost. I don't think so that this is the first time that you had this discussion, but for me is the first, and I didn't involve you in this discussion just to bother you. Thats what I see in the way the disciples preached the Gospel. The preached JESUS as the Son of God, the one who has the life and is the inheritor of Heaven , the Judge of all, and not before he died for our sins and raised from the dead. The disciples said; believed in JESUS CHRIST the Son of God. What I shall do to be saved? Believed in the Lord Jesus Christ. Certainly not one is lost and going to Hell , who believes and trust Jesus Christ. Saying that I have not said anything against the Holy Spirit . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woundeddog Posted February 17, 2017 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 44 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,370 Content Per Day: 0.25 Reputation: 1,054 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/21/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/18/1868 Share Posted February 17, 2017 6 hours ago, other one said: Everyone I know received the Holy Spirit after they acknowledge Jesus as thier Lord thief on the cross was promised by Jesus that he would be with him in paradise TODAY--- way before pentecost Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Your closest friendnt Posted February 17, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 18 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,824 Content Per Day: 2.41 Reputation: 2,753 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/05/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted February 17, 2017 3 hours ago, Jewels7 said: And yet, that is exactly how God purposed it before the world began. I am surprised to read your post, and I must inform you ( not that you do not know it) That Jesus Christ died for all, that is in God's mind when he sent Jesus to die for all the world. That's why Jesus said peach the Gospel, the ones who believe will be saved. All the disciples were persuading the people with fervent prayer to believe in Jesus. They were saying for you is the Gospel and your family. I don't see the attitude you are suggesting in anyone of the disciples. The scripture only said that God knew or understood what will happen and had a plan and knew how he will save the people, through Jesus Christ and that's the only way. To suggest that everyone is lost but the sleepers, and God will find a way to wake them up , because they are in his book. This is not truth . The book of God was not prewritten with the names of the people. God adds the names of the people as they believe. You are wrong and soon you will find out. This not how you love your neighbor as yourself. To look at people and say; It is not their fault God has rejected them before the foundation of the earth . He allowed them to be born so the Devil can have some children. If that was true, there is not sorrow and regrets in Hell for the lost. And JESUS will never have said ; The very words you have heard about the Messiah and you refuse to believe will judge on that day, so you can not blame God for going to Hell. God's involvement in choosing people finished on the Cross. JESUS is for all, The NEW has come. God is not to be blame for anyones unbelief. To the contrary the Holy Spirit is helping everyone to come to the faith. If what you suggest was right, why the Holy Spirit is helping everyone to come to the faith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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