The Rapture and Jewish Feasts

[OneLight]

10 minutes ago, Keras said:

Clutching at straws now, aren't we?   Jesus comes from Heaven, God's abode, and appears on earth. Those Christians who remain alive at that time will be gathered to Him. Exactly as Matthew 24:30-31 says.

If the truth is clutching at straws, then yes, I will accept that evaluation.  As you already know, not many here see eye to eye with your theology.  We know you are intelligent enough to write books, have a nice looking site, but what amazes me is how in all this you do not seem to accept that there are three heavens.  Should I show you them in scripture, or do you already know them but have decided to reject them?

May I ask what your belief is about 1 Thessalonians 4:17?  Do yo not see that the sky directly above us is known as a heaven in scripture where the birds fly?  Genesis 1:20; Job 35:11; Psalm 79:2, etc.

[Keras]

2 hours ago, OneLight said:

May I ask what your belief is about 1 Thessalonians 4:17?  Do yo not see that the sky directly above us is known as a heaven in scripture where the birds fly?  Genesis 1:20; Job 35:11; Psalm 79:2, etc.

I quite agree that there are three heavens. 1/ our atmosphere.  2/ outer space.   3/ where God lives; the Spiritual realm.

My contention with you and all 'rapture to heaven' believers, is that you think God is going to take you to His Spiritual heaven.  This notion is never mentioned in scripture. Jesus says this is impossible. John 3:13, John 7:34, John 17:15

Its time to know the real plan of God for our future. All as perfectly clearly prophesied. 1 Thess 4:15-17 describes a supernatural transportation of those who remain, to where Jesus is; in Jerusalem.

[OneLight]

57 minutes ago, Keras said:

I quite agree that there are three heavens. 1/ our atmosphere.  2/ outer space.   3/ where God lives; the Spiritual realm.

My contention with you and all 'rapture to heaven' believers, is that you think God is going to take you to His Spiritual heaven.  This notion is never mentioned in scripture. Jesus says this is impossible. John 3:13, John 7:34, John 17:15

Its time to know the real plan of God for our future. All as perfectly clearly prophesied. 1 Thess 4:15-17 describes a supernatural transportation of those who remain, to where Jesus is; in Jerusalem.

So then, instead of debating your assumption, let's talk about what scripture actually tells us.  1 Thessalonians 4:17 tells us: "Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord."  Seems Jesus is in the clouds, not Jerusalem as you claim.  However, we will always be with the Lord, no matter where that may be.

You see, the clouds are known as heaven, our atmosphere, so I am glad you agree that we will meet Him in heaven.  You can argue with yourself as to what you assume "you and all 'rapture to heaven' believer" really means.

[Keras]

5 hours ago, OneLight said:

So then, instead of debating your assumption, let's talk about what scripture actually tells us.  1 Thessalonians 4:17 tells us: "Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord."  Seems Jesus is in the clouds, not Jerusalem as you claim.  However, we will always be with the Lord, no matter where that may be.

You see, the clouds are known as heaven, our atmosphere, so I am glad you agree that we will meet Him in heaven.  You can argue with yourself as to what you assume "you and all 'rapture to heaven' believer" really means.

the two Greek words - 'nephetais' and 'aera' used in 1 thes 4:17, mean 'clouds and air'.  Just as translated.

Yes, the meeting is in the atmospheric clouds, but Jesus has departed from the Spiritual heaven and is about to arrive on earth, where He will dispose of the Anti-Christ and his army and commence His Millennium reign.

Your fanciful notion of going to heaven, is totally unsupported by scripture. But this is what we do look forward to:

 The Land of Beulah:

Isaiah 62:1-2a For Zion’s sake, I shall not keep silent – until her victory shines forth, like the sunrise, her victory like a blazing torch. The nations will see your victory and their rulers your glory.

Isaiah prophesies for the sake of the Land of Israel. There will be a great victory, ‘like a blazing torch’ - a CME sunstrike over the attacking enemies. Psalms 83, Isaiah 30:25-28, Isaiah 66:15-16  The world will see it and be amazed.  Jeremiah 33:6-16, 2 Peter 3:7

Isaiah 62:2b-5 You will receive a new name, the Lord Himself will give it. You will be like a glorious crown in His hand. No more are you forsaken and your Land desolate. You will be called ‘Hephzibah’ and the Land, ‘Beulah’. For the Lord will delight in you and it will be like a marriage, He will rejoice over you as a bridegroom over his bride.       [Hephzibah = My delight is in her.  Beulah = married.   Isaiah 49:18

The Lord’s righteous people, some Israelites by descent and most by grafting in, are gathered and settled into their Land, the Land of Greater Israel, then called Beulah. Wonderful promises to them of fertility and wealth. They will live in justice, peace and security, as He intended people to be. Jeremiah 3:22, Isaiah 49:8

Isaiah 62:6-7 Jerusalem, on your walls, I have posted watchmen, they will call out: You that invoke the Name of the Lord, do not rest and give no rest to the Lord until He makes Jerusalem a praise throughout the world.

Those who tell about these things are ‘watchmen’, [Hebrew ‘natzar’, that is: Nazarenes] so it is all Christian believers who must not rest or let the Lord forget His people and His Land. Keep praying for our redemption and restoration.  Ezekiel 36:24-28, Isaiah 52:7-9

Isaiah 62:8-9 The Lord has sworn to never again allow foreigners to take the produce of the Land, but you who give praises to Him will eat the grain and drink the wine, within My sacred courts.

After the great clearance in the Middle East, only His righteous people will be allowed to live there, those who love the Lord and obey Him. Isaiah 66:20-21, Ezekiel 20:38

Isaiah 62:10-11 Pass through the gates – clear a road for My people. Build a highway, remove the rocks and make a signal to guide the people. Proclaim to the ends of the earth, say to the offspring of Zion: See your deliverance comes, His reward is with Him and He will make recompense.

The great gathering of the Lord’s people – the second Exodus, will happen in the same manner as the first Exodus. Leaders [shepherds] will arise to guide the flock, in the spirit of Moses and Elijah. Jeremiah 3:14-15, Isaiah 58:11, Isaiah 43:5-7, Micah 4:6, Isaiah 49:9-13,  Isaiah 51:3, Zechariah 8:11-12, Isaiah 40:1-5, Ezekiel 11:17

 

Isaiah 62:12 They will be called ‘The Holy people, the Redeemed of Y’hovah’ and Jerusalem will be called ‘sought after, the City no longer forsaken’.

The Lord’s holy people, every true Christian; from every tribe, race, nation and language will live in the Holy Land of Beulah, as He created them to live, being a ‘light to the nations’ and witnesses to His salvation. Isaiah 43:6 They will send out 144,000 missionaries to every people group, to preach the good news of the coming Kingdom of Jesus. Isaiah 66:19, 1 Peter 2:9-10, Acts 2:39, Jeremiah 31:23-34

Joel 2:23-27 People of Zion, rejoice – your God will recompense you for the years that others have ravaged your Land. You will again have plenty in your own Land. Then you will know that I am present in Israel and that I and no other am your God.

All this will happen before the Return of Jesus for His Millennial reign     

 

 

 

Edited February 28, 2017 by Keras

[When Is Jesus Coming?]

On 24/02/2017 at 6:19 PM, Ezra said:

Recently many have been trying to connect the Rapture with Jewish feasts, and also engage in date-setting (something favored by false prophets).  Neither of these movements are solidly based on what is revealed in the New Testament, and are therefore pure speculation.

The Rapture has always been IMMINENT -- could occur at any time unexpectedly and unannounced.  The Second Coming of Christ is entirely different, and all the inhabitants of the earth will know when this occurs, and will mourn.

Here is a link to an article which provides more reasons why the Rapture should not be connected with Jewish feasts.

http://www.wayoflife.org/reports/the-rapture-and-jewish-feasts.php

Deuteronomy 16:16

 

Three times a year all your men must appear before the LORD your God at the place he will choose: at the Festival of Unleavened Bread, the Festival of Weeks and the Festival of Tabernacles. No one should appear before the LORD empty-handed:

 

The Festival of Unleavened Bread was fulfilled by Jesus' death and Resurrection. 

 

The Festival of Weeks was fulfilled by the Holy Spirit being given

 

The Festival of Tabernacles has yet to be fulfilled and Jesus said it would be fulfilled at a later time;

 

John 7 
1 After this, Jesus went around in Galilee. He did not wanta to go about in Judea because the Jewish leaders there were looking for a way to kill him. 2 But when the Jewish Festival of Tabernacles was near, 3 Jesus’ brothers said to him, “Leave Galilee and go to Judea, so that your disciples there may see the works you do. 4 No one who wants to become a public figure acts in secret. Since you are doing these things, show yourself to the world.” 5 For even his own brothers did not believe in him. 6 Therefore Jesus told them, “My time is not yet here; for you any time will do. 7 The world cannot hate you, but it hates me because I testify that its works are evil. 8 You go to the festival. I am not going up to this festival, because my time has not yet fully come.” 9 After he had said this, he stayed in Galilee. 10 However, after his brothers had left for the festival, he went also, not publicly, but in secret. 11 Now at the festival the Jewish leaders were watching for Jesus and asking, “Where is he?” 12 Among the crowds there was widespread whispering about him. Some said, “He is a good man.” Others replied, “No, he deceives the people.” 13 But no one would say anything publicly about him for fear of the leaders.  14 Not until halfway through the festival did Jesus go up to the temple courts and begin to teach.

 

The feast of Tabernacles is on the 15th of Tishri but then lasts 8 days till 22nd Tishri. Jesus purposely said it was not yet the right time to fulfil this feast. Tabernacles is the harvest festival that foreshadows the harvest of souls from the Earth. 

[Ezra]

50 minutes ago, When Is Jesus Coming? said:

Tabernacles is the harvest festival that foreshadows the harvest of souls from the Earth. 

The only place where the feasts of the Lord are reinstated are in the future redeemed and restored kingdom of Israel, as revealed in Ezekiel.  So trying to connect the Feast of Tabernacles to the Rapture or to any other harvest of souls would not apply.  In fact there is no mention of any Jewish feasts in Revelation or in Thessalonians.

[When Is Jesus Coming?]

1 hour ago, Ezra said:

The only place where the feasts of the Lord are reinstated are in the future redeemed and restored kingdom of Israel, as revealed in Ezekiel.  So trying to connect the Feast of Tabernacles to the Rapture or to any other harvest of souls would not apply.  In fact there is no mention of any Jewish feasts in Revelation or in Thessalonians.

That's an opinion. What I posted was just a few of the scriptures from which an increasing number of Christians are discovering How Jesus is fulfilling these feasts.

God made the Israelite's practice these feasts for over a 1000 years with hundreds of different practices that God told them in scripture to do. Just one for example was the spreading down of palms in front of the High Priest when He rode into Jerusalem on a donkey as he carried a perfect lamb that he had chosen from the shepherds fields in Bethlehem. When Jesus rode in on the donkeys the people thought it was the High Priest but in actual fact He was their real High Priest. Most of the Jews (especially the Pharisees and Sadducees) failed to make this connection and today the same thing is happening with Christians as most of them are missing this connection, but some are seeing it, just as the disciples eventually saw these connections too.  

However, I believe this scriptural discovery is ultimately only revealed by the Holy Spirit. I hope you and everyone see it before He comes but I know that this is not what will happen as the way is narrow as Jesus said. 

Edited February 28, 2017 by When Is Jesus Coming?

[n2thelight]

On 2/24/2017 at 1:19 PM, Ezra said:

Recently many have been trying to connect the Rapture with Jewish feasts, and also engage in date-setting (something favored by false prophets).  Neither of these movements are solidly based on what is revealed in the New Testament, and are therefore pure speculation.

The Rapture has always been IMMINENT -- could occur at any time unexpectedly and unannounced.  The Second Coming of Christ is entirely different, and all the inhabitants of the earth will know when this occurs, and will mourn.

Here is a link to an article which provides more reasons why the Rapture should not be connected with Jewish feasts.

http://www.wayoflife.org/reports/the-rapture-and-jewish-feasts.php

1. Before His ascension, Christ prophesied the coming of the Holy Spirit on Pentecost. Because of this prophecy, Christ could not come until His words had been fulfilled on the day of Pentecost. Thus from His ascension to Pentecost, Christ's return was not imminent. (Lk. 24:49).
2. Before His ascension, Christ prophesied that Peter would grow old; he would then be captured and finally be martyred for his testimony for Him. Because of this prophecy, Christ could not return as long as Peter was alive. Peter had to grow old, be captured, and finally be martyred to fulfill the words of Christ. All the Christians knew that as long as Peter was alive, Jesus could not come. Peter died around A.D. 67. Thus from the ascension to Peter's death (67 A.D.), Christ's return was not imminent. (John 21: 18-19; 1 Pet. 1:13-15).
3. Having established that Christ's coming was not imminent until Peter's death (A.D. 67), none of Paul’s or Peter's Epistles can have any references to an imminent return of Christ because all of the epistles were written before A.D. 67 and both men knew the prophecies of Christ, and that His coming was not possible at that time. The epistles of Paul and Peter make no reference to an imminent return of Christ.
4. Before His ascension, Christ prophesied that His church would be planted in Jerusalem, then Judea, then Samaria, and then to “the ends of the earth.” This prophecy was not fulfilled by the early church and has yet to be fully fulfilled. Until the church has been planted in every tribe, tongue and nation, Christ's coming is not imminent. (Acts 1:8; Matt. 28:19, 20; MK. 16:15; Lk. 24:7f; Rev. 7:9).
5. Before His ascension, Christ prophesied the total destruction of Herod's temple by foreign armies. The temple was not destroyed until A.D. 70. Thus from His ascension to the destruction of Herod's temple (A.D. 70), Christ's return was not imminent. (Matt. 24:1; Mk. 13:1; Lk. 21:5, 6).
6. Before His ascension, Christ prophesied certain signs to precede His return. These signs were not present in the early church and are not fully present right now. They are still future. Thus until all these signs are clearly and fully fulfilled, Christ's coming is not imminent. (Matt. 24-, Mk.13, Lk. 21).
7. After His ascension, Christ prophesied that the apostle Paul would go to Rome and preach His gospel. Until Paul got to Rome, Christ could not come. Thus from His ascension to the time when Paul got to Rome (A.D. 61), Christ's return was not imminent. (Acts 23:11; 27:24). None of Paul’s epistles written before he got to Rome could possibly teach that Christ's return was imminent.-
8. After His ascension, Christ prophesied that the church at Smyrna would pass through a great persecution in the future. He challenged them to suffer faithfully. Until the Smyrna church had been through this trial, Christ could not come. Thus from His ascension to the trial of the church at Smyrna, Christ's coming was not imminent. (Rev. 2:10).
9. Christ in various parables connected His church and His coming with the end of the age. Until all the Biblical Prophecies leading up to the end of the age, and the prophecies concerning the end of the age have been fulfilled, Christ cannot come. Thus Christ's return cannot be imminent. (Matt. 13:24-30, 36-43, 47-50; 25:14-30)

 

Edited February 28, 2017 by n2thelight

[n2thelight]

Signs for the 2nd coming but no signs for the rapture,can anyone please tell me what kind of sense that makes?

[When Is Jesus Coming?]

55 minutes ago, n2thelight said:

1. Before His ascension, Christ prophesied the coming of the Holy Spirit on Pentecost. Because of this prophecy, Christ could not come until His words had been fulfilled on the day of Pentecost. Thus from His ascension to Pentecost, Christ's return was not imminent. (Lk. 24:49).
2. Before His ascension, Christ prophesied that Peter would grow old; he would then be captured and finally be martyred for his testimony for Him. Because of this prophecy, Christ could not return as long as Peter was alive. Peter had to grow old, be captured, and finally be martyred to fulfill the words of Christ. All the Christians knew that as long as Peter was alive, Jesus could not come. Peter died around A.D. 67. Thus from the ascension to Peter's death (67 A.D.), Christ's return was not imminent. (John 21: 18-19; 1 Pet. 1:13-15).
3. Having established that Christ's coming was not imminent until Peter's death (A.D. 67), none of Paul’s or Peter's Epistles can have any references to an imminent return of Christ because all of the epistles were written before A.D. 67 and both men knew the prophecies of Christ, and that His coming was not possible at that time. The epistles of Paul and Peter make no reference to an imminent return of Christ.
4. Before His ascension, Christ prophesied that His church would be planted in Jerusalem, then Judea, then Samaria, and then to “the ends of the earth.” This prophecy was not fulfilled by the early church and has yet to be fully fulfilled. Until the church has been planted in every tribe, tongue and nation, Christ's coming is not imminent. (Acts 1:8; Matt. 28:19, 20; MK. 16:15; Lk. 24:7f; Rev. 7:9).
5. Before His ascension, Christ prophesied the total destruction of Herod's temple by foreign armies. The temple was not destroyed until A.D. 70. Thus from His ascension to the destruction of Herod's temple (A.D. 70), Christ's return was not imminent. (Matt. 24:1; Mk. 13:1; Lk. 21:5, 6).
6. Before His ascension, Christ prophesied certain signs to precede His return. These signs were not present in the early church and are not fully present right now. They are still future. Thus until all these signs are clearly and fully fulfilled, Christ's coming is not imminent. (Matt. 24-, Mk.13, Lk. 21).
7. After His ascension, Christ prophesied that the apostle Paul would go to Rome and preach His gospel. Until Paul got to Rome, Christ could not come. Thus from His ascension to the time when Paul got to Rome (A.D. 61), Christ's return was not imminent. (Acts 23:11; 27:24). None of Paul’s epistles written before he got to Rome could possibly teach that Christ's return was imminent.-
8. After His ascension, Christ prophesied that the church at Smyrna would pass through a great persecution in the future. He challenged them to suffer faithfully. Until the Smyrna church had been through this trial, Christ could not come. Thus from His ascension to the trial of the church at Smyrna, Christ's coming was not imminent. (Rev. 2:10).
9. Christ in various parables connected His church and His coming with the end of the age. Until all the Biblical Prophecies leading up to the end of the age, and the prophecies concerning the end of the age have been fulfilled, Christ cannot come. Thus Christ's return cannot be imminent. (Matt. 13:24-30, 36-43, 47-50; 25:14-30)

 

Thank you for that clear explanation. So many Christians simply miss all this stuff in favour of 'sound bits'. Nearly 2000 years on and some claim that it has always been imminent but that's not what the dictionary definition of imminent means. Many people can't even stand waiting in line or on hold for more than a few minutes let alone 2000 years.  

Edited February 28, 2017 by When Is Jesus Coming?