The Gospel

[Reinitin]

2 hours ago, OneLight said:

The Gospel Paul preached was not just salvation, as the verses you quoted claims "I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received".  I am positive Paul received much more than the salvation message, otherwise, he would not of written so many epistles.

I agree that the whole word given to us from God points to Him and how we may be reconciled to Him through His Son Jesus. 

Bible tells us all scripture is for the encouragment and edification of the saints:)

[JohnD]

7 minutes ago, Reinitin said:

 

Jesus was baptised to fullfill righteousness. Obedience to the forruning ministry of elijah which would of been sin if he didn't. Then after obedience the witness of God and the evidence of the Holy Spirit displayed before man. It was the perfect plan revealed to man and its perfection announced with a heavenly witness.

The Baptism of Jesus

¹³ Then Jesus came from Galilee to the Jordan to be baptized by John. ¹⁴ But John tried to deter him, saying, “I need to be baptized by you, and do you come to me?”

¹⁵ Jesus replied, “Let it be so now; it is proper for us to do this to fulfill all righteousness.” Then John consented.

¹⁶ As soon as Jesus was baptized, he went up out of the water. At that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the Spirit of Goddescending like a dove and alighting on him.¹⁷ And a voice from heaven said, “This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased.”

Your second and third assumptions of an argument are not applicable to Gods purposes in baptism at all.

ill answer for Pauls letter to Galatians in another quote to you. I ll have to get the scripture:) your pulling that one out of context and assigning unstated assumptions to prop up a unsupported conclusion too.

 

The baptism of Noah (the flood).

I'm a bit rusty here, I'll get back with you on the scripture refs for this one.

The baptism of the Red Sea (children of Israel in the wilderness fleeing from Pharaoh).

1 Corinthians 10:1–4 (AV)
1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;
2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat;
4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

The baptisms were a departure from the old into the new.

Jesus did so as  Jew fulfilling the office of Messiah (fulfilling the Law).

I am sure we are agreed he (Jesus) was and is sinless... if not I can show the verses.

BTW great exchange of ideas, Sister! ☺

 

 

[Reinitin]

25 minutes ago, JohnD said:

Acts 19:1–7 (AV)
1 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,
2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John’s baptism.
4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.
7 And all the men were about twelve.

Was this a water baptism? The baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus? Or was it in the next verse the laying on of Paul's hands? And the actual baptism was of the Holy Ghost coming upon them...

Remember, Paul said he was not sent to (water) baptize and he listed off a couple he water baptized... not these 12 disciples...

1 Corinthians 1:14–17 (AV)
14 I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;
15 Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name.
16 And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other.
17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.

 

Verily is a interesting word placed here:) have you studied this one in Greek? Amen truely, let it be so:) 

[JohnD]

26 minutes ago, JohnD said:

Remember, Paul said he was not sent to (water) baptize and he listed off a couple he water baptized... not these 12 disciples...

1 Corinthians 1:14–17 (AV)
14 I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;
15 Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name.
16 And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other.
17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.

 

Well, I guess Paul got it wrong if water baptism is crucial for salvation / to believe in YHVH etc as has (someone) been quite emphatic about here.

[JohnD]

19 minutes ago, Reinitin said:

Verily is a interesting word placed here:) have you studied this one in Greek? Amen truely, let it be so:) 

VERILY
1.      ALĒTHŌS (ἀληθῶς , (230)), truly (akin to alētheia, truth), is translated “verily” in 1 John 2:5. See INDEED, NO. 3, SURELY, TRULY.
2.      AMĒN (ἀμήν , (281)), the transliteration of a Heb. word = ‘truth,’ is usually translated “verily” in the four Gospels; in John’s Gospel the Lord introduces a solemn pronouncement by the repeated word “verily, verily” twenty–five times. See AMEN.
3.      ONTŌS (ὄντως , (3689)), really (connected with eimi, to be), is rendered “verily” in Mark 11:32, R.V., and Gal. 3:21. See INDEED, NO. 4.
Notes: (1) In Acts 16:37, gar, for, is translated “verily.” (2) In Heb. 2:16, dēpou (in some texts dē pou), a particle meaning of course, we know, is rendered “verily.”¶ (3) In Luke 11:51, A.V., nai, yea (R.V.), is translated “verily.” (4) The particle men (see INDEED, NO. 1) is rendered “verily,” e.g., in 1 Cor. 5:3; 14:17; Heb. 12:10; in the A.V., Heb. 3:5; 7:5, 18; 1 Pet. 1:20; in Acts 26:9 it is combined with oun (therefore): see YEA, NO. 4.

W.E. Vine and F.F. Bruce, Vine’s Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words (Old Tappan NJ: Revell, 1981), 185.

Truly it was so that John Baptized with water unto repentance... (please look up repent in the Greek).

"Turn around and you're two

Turn around and you're four

turn around and you're a young girl going out of the door..."

 

LOL !

[OneLight]

15 minutes ago, Reinitin said:

Bible tells us all scripture is for the encouragment and edification of the saints:)

That is absolutely true, yet the Gospel covers more than just salvation.  By His grace, we also have instructions on how to live out our lives as we await being with Him.

[JohnD]

Gag about an old Star Trek episode where the crew went nuts and one redid the ships decor...

[Reinitin]

1 hour ago, JohnD said:

What was Jesus water baptism for?

Repentance of sins he did not have?

Or the turning away from the old (covenant) to the new?

If you trace back the ceremonial washing in scripture (also referred to in the washing of the Pharisees and even Pontius Pilate who tried to absolve himself of his choice to turn Jesus over to the will of the Sanhedrin) you will see it was not a new thing for the coming new covenant but an old thing in the repentance / turning away from the old.

Galatians 3:24–25 (AV)
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

Paul also wrote about it in Romans chapters 3-8 and (IMHO it was Paul) in Hebrews.

Turning away from the old to the new.

 

 

 

Ok brother John back to Galations 3.

Paul was speaking to people that had already been baptised. How can this verse possibly be used to reveal a mystery on baptism revealed by God.

Please notice verse 27.

The Purpose of the Law

¹⁹ Why then was the law given? It was added because of transgressions until the Seed to whom the promise was made would come. The law was put into effect through angels by means of a mediator.²⁰ Now a mediator is not for just one person, but God is one. ²¹ Is the law therefore contrary to God’s promises? Absolutely not! For if a law had been given that was able to give life, then righteousness would certainly be by the law. ²² But the Scripture has imprisoned everything under sin’s power,^[q] so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. ²³ Before this faith came, we were confined under the law, imprisoned until the coming faith was revealed. ²⁴ The law, then, was our guardian^[r] until Christ, so that we could be justified by faith. ²⁵ But since that faithhas come, we are no longer under a guardian, ²⁶ for you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.

Sons and Heirs

²⁷ For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ like a garment. ²⁸ There is no Jew or Greek, slave or free, male or female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. ²⁹ And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, heirs according to the promise.

[JohnD]

My point in levity was only that "repent and believe the gospel" is not "sinner repent!"

Yes, mankind has sinned against God (Isaiah 64:6 declares even human righteousness are as filthy rags to God).

Repent means to turn from something to something else. Sin, yes. But the point John was making was the Kingdom of God was at hand.

The King (Jesus) AND the New Covenant.

[JohnD]

1 minute ago, Reinitin said:

Ok brother John back to Galations 3.

Paul was speaking to people that had already been baptised. How can this verse possibly be used to reveal a mystery on baptism revealed by God.

Please notice verse 27.

The turning away from the Old Covenant Law of Moses to the New Covenant Law of Messiah (Grace).