Is Maryology Idolatry?

[TheMatrixHasU71]

4 minutes ago, Judas Machabeus said:

It is possible for a human to live a completely sinless life

Utter nonsense. There is NONE righteous, NO NOT ONE.

To even suggest that a human can live a perfect sinless life without even committing the tiniest most unimportant sins is to put that person on the same level as Jesus. 

Luke 2:48 

And when they saw him, they were amazed: and his mother said unto him, Son, why hast thou thus dealt with us? behold, thy father and I have sought thee sorrowing.

You think that wasnt a sin? Accusing Jesus of dishonoring His earthly parents? Doubting His mission?

John 2

3And when they wanted wine, the mother of Jesus saith unto him, They have no wine.

4Jesus saith unto her, Woman, what have I to do with thee? mine hour is not yet come.

That wasnt a sin too on her part to you? Jesus rebuked her for bringing up something that was completely trivial.

 

 

[Guest shiloh357]

10 minutes ago, Judas Machabeus said:

 

heres a new thought. Is temptation part of our fallen nature?

we no Jesus never sinnned, but how do know he Didn't inherent a fallen human nature and with that fallen nature remained sinless because he was full of Gods grace? It is possible for a human to live a completely sinless life. Although astrinomicly unlikely, but with Gods grace anything is possible right. 

Does scripture say Jesus's human nature was different than ours?

i don't know the answer to that question.  

If Jesus had a fallen nature, then Jesus was a sinner.  One cannot be a fallen, but sinless human being.  That is a contradiction in terms. 

If Jesus were a fallen human being, it would disqualify Him from being our Savior, as the sacrifice for sin had to be a sinless sacrifice.

Jesus had a human nature, but Jesus' human nature was like Adam's nature before Adam sinned.   Having a human nature isn't equivalent to having a sinful nature.   Jesus human nature was like ours, but without the stain of Original Sin.

Yes, the Bible says that Jesus knew no sin.  That means that Jesus was born sinless without a sin nature.     Jesus was sinless because Jesus was conceived by the Holy Spirit and was not born in a fallen state. If Jesus was fallen, then He was stained with Original Sin, and if that were true, then Jesus was more sinful than Mary.  Mary, on that basis (since the  RCC says she has no original sin), would have been more qualified to die for the sin of man than Jesus.  And that is untenable.

[Guest Judas Machabeus]

7 minutes ago, OneLight said:

This does not exclude Jesus flesh to desire the same as all other flesh, but His spirit was pure.

This touches on the thought I added to my post.. it's not in your quote because I added as you replied. 

 

20 minutes ago, TheMatrixHasU71 said:

To even suggest that a human can live a perfect sinless life without even committing the tiniest most unimportant sins is to put that person on the same level as Jesus

Are you saying that Adam was on the same level as Jesus before he fell?

there is a huge difference between being sinless and being Devine. After our resurrection we will be sinless, are you saying that we will be on the same level as Jesus?

[Guest shiloh357]

19 minutes ago, Judas Machabeus said:

Are you saying that Adam was on the same level as Jesus before he fell?

there is a huge difference between being sinless and being Devine. After our resurrection we will be sinless, are you saying that we will be on the same level as Jesus?

I am surprised such question even needs to be asked.   We will be as sinless Jesus, but we will not be divine.   There is no such thing as being more or less sinless.   There is only one level of sinlessness.  Being sinless doesn't put us on the same level as Jesus as we will not have a divine nature.

[Guest Judas Machabeus]

20 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

If Jesus had a fallen nature, then Jesus was a sinner.  One cannot be a fallen, but sinless human being.  That is a contradiction in terms. 

I believe that when God created Adam, Adam was full of Gods grace. He was made perfect. Adam if he hadn't eaten the apple he would have lived forever. 

No we are born without that grace and without that grace we are fallen. 

42 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

I am surprised such question even needs to be asked.   We will be as sinless Jesus, but we will not be divine.   There is no such thing as being more or less sinless.   There is only one level of sinlessness.  Being sinless doesn't put us on the same level as Jesus as we will not have a divine nature.

 

You said to say someone is sinless is putting them in the same level as Jesus. So I think it's a valid question. Before Adam sinned he was sinless. 

[Guest Judas Machabeus]

1 hour ago, TheMatrixHasU71 said:

To even suggest that a human can live a perfect sinless life without even committing the tiniest most unimportant sins is to put that person on the same level as Jesus. 

Sorry Shiloh, it was Matrix that made the comment. My mistake

[Guest shiloh357]

1 hour ago, Judas Machabeus said:

I believe that when God created Adam, Adam was full of Gods grace. He was made perfect.

If he was perfect, then he didn't need God's grace, at least no the way grace is described in the Bible.  I have a feeling that you and the RCC define grace differently than the Bible does.

When you use the word "grace" what do you mean by that term?

 

[Guest Judas Machabeus]

1 hour ago, shiloh357 said:

If he was perfect, then he didn't need God's grace, at least no the way grace is described in the Bible.  I have a feeling that you and the RCC define grace differently than the Bible does.

When you use the word "grace" what do you mean by that term?

 

He was perfect because of the grace. This is our problem today and why we need saving. We are born separated from God and need his grace. Without it we are nothing. 

 

[Guest shiloh357]

53 minutes ago, Judas Machabeus said:

He was perfect because of the grace. This is our problem today and why we need saving. We are born separated from God and need his grace. Without it we are nothing. 

 

How do you know it was because of grace he was perfect?  How was he "full of grace?"   Grace does not perfect us.   So that is a misuse of the biblical term.

[Marilyn C]

8 hours ago, Judas Machabeus said:

I believe that when God created Adam, Adam was full of Gods grace. He was made perfect. Adam if he hadn't eaten the apple he would have lived forever. 

 

Hi Judas,

So I see you are saying that Mary passed on to the Lord a sinless body which would live forever & not die, yet we see the Lord, tired, suffering, tortured, & finally dying. Thus He had a human body that had the consequences of the fall, & so Mary was not perfect.

Marilyn.