Is Maryology Idolatry?

[Guest Judas Machabeus]

36 minutes ago, Fidei Defensor said:

I appreciate you shared so much information. I just have one question, is this from Roman Catholic Catechism or a Reformed Catechism?

That's the Cathechism of the Catholic Church. That's right off the Vatican website. 

[Guest Judas Machabeus]

20 minutes ago, Yowm said:

or that they even hear our requests.

Revelation 5:8

8 And when he had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each holding a harp, and with golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints; 

this shows two fold, one that the Saints in heaven are not only aware of our prayers but offer them up in golden bowls to the lamb. 

Edited April 30, 2017 by Judas Machabeus

[Fidei Defensor]

5 minutes ago, Judas Machabeus said:

That's the Cathechism of the Catholic Church. That's right off the Vatican website. 

Understood. Well I still hold to my view that since Middle Ages, the Cult of Virgin Mary was an Ashteroth cult revived. In fact, this happened to Israel, they put Ashtoreth poles up and worshipped both Jehovah and Ashtoreth until the Prophet Jeremiah confronted this idolatry (Jeremiah 44) and Nehemiah was told by the LORD to tear down the fertility poles.

I do wonder if there has been reform in Catholic Church. Pope Francis I has done some unusual things, one wonders if there will be Vatican III council or sequel to Second Council of Trent.

I know many Catholic friends of mine have started reading the Holy Bible, and feel a change in their lives. This being encouraged now that there is a spirit of amiability between Catholic and Protestant.  

Edit: I mentioned in a post somewhere else on forums, that an Eastern Orthodox priest told me he views prayers of dead, not as praying to dead or asking them for intercession, but that you are praying for their works, that the work of saints, examples being Peter and Paul's work, or the Salvation Army or Martin Luther, and so forth continue on through those who are living.

Edited April 30, 2017 by Fidei Defensor

[Guest Judas Machabeus]

3 minutes ago, Fidei Defensor said:

Understood. Well I still hold to my view that since Middle Ages, the Cult of Virgin Mary was an Ashteroth cult revived. In fact, this happened to Israel, they put Ashtoreth poles up and worshipped both Jehovah and Ashtoreth until the Prophet Jeremiah confronted this idolatry (Jeremiah 44) and Nehemiah was told by the LORD to tear down the fertility poles.

I do wonder if there has been reform in Catholic Church. Pope Francis I has done some unusual things, one wonders if there will be Vatican III council or sequel to Second Council of Trent.

I know many Catholic friends of mine have started reading the Holy Bible, and feel a change in their lives. This being encouraged now that there is a spirit of amiability between Catholic and Protestant.  

Things are better between the two groups. And the left over hostility we'll fade away with future generation. Catholic and Protestants are equally guilty for the century's of bad blood. 

Can't curse someone to hell and not expect them to curse you back. Prodominately Catholic area would persecute Protestants and vice versa. But as more generations come to pass and the old ways are abandon it will be nice to call each other brothers. And we are seeing that more often than not. 

[Guest Judas Machabeus]

32 minutes ago, Yowm said:

In order for Mary to field tens of thousands of petitions from Roman Catholics and others of like persuasion, simultaneously would put her in the category of 'all hearing' and 'all present' (omnipresent), thus at least semi deity,  in order to accomplish such a feat.

So God can give mortal man the ability to raise someone from the dead BUT can't give the ability to receive thousands of prayer requests?

interesting

[Fidei Defensor]

7 minutes ago, Judas Machabeus said:

Things are better between the two groups. And the left over hostility we'll fade away with future generation. Catholic and Protestants are equally guilty for the century's of bad blood. 

Can't curse someone to hell and not expect them to curse you back. Prodominately Catholic area would persecute Protestants and vice versa. But as more generations come to pass and the old ways are abandon it will be nice to call each other brothers. And we are seeing that more often than not. 

Sadly the bad blood between Catholic and Protestant reminds me of "Brother turned against Brother." The bad blood between our churches I think will heal as you have so eloquently said, "with time and future generations." I myself have had so many Catholic friends, and spent so much time in Catholic Church attending masses, reading Catholic literature, and I even have copies of Gregorian Chant, I have never had stigma in my heart of Catholics being an enemy. While I will never be able to agree on Eucharist, Cult of the Saints, Cult of Virgin Mary, Primacy, and etc; I believe a respect can remain between the two parts of the family; for I think all Trinitarian Churches who profess Jesus Christ as Savior and Lord, and the Only Way of Salvation (Acts 4:10-12, John 14:6) are part of larger Christian family. We don't all see eye to eye, but that's not what matters, sometimes I love the differences, like how we interpret Jesus words in John 6, its fun to compare, critique, and converse about these matters; it would be boring otherwise.

I have come to appreciate much in the Catholic Church, I have my own Crucifixes and copy of "The Imitation of Christ" by Thomas Kempis, and I have a guilty pleasure of being closet historian of the Crusades (I have read many volumes from a diversity of authors). While I will always uphold the Holy Scriptures as my testate for all doctrine, and I hold to Five Solaes (Solus) of By Grace, Through Faith, in Christ Alone, trust Scripture Alone for doctrine, and Glory be to God Alone, I bear not ill will in my heart for my Catholic brothers.

[Guest Judas Machabeus]

10 minutes ago, Fidei Defensor said:

Sadly the bad blood between Catholic and Protestant reminds me of "Brother turned against Brother." The bad blood between our churches I think will heal as you have so eloquently said, "with time and future generations." I myself have had so many Catholic friends, and spent so much time in Catholic Church attending masses, reading Catholic literature, and I even have copies of Gregorian Chant, I have never had stigma in my heart of Catholics being an enemy. While I will never be able to agree on Eucharist, Cult of the Saints, Cult of Virgin Mary, Primacy, and etc; I believe a respect can remain between the two parts of the family; for I think all Trinitarian Churches who profess Jesus Christ as Savior and Lord, and the Only Way of Salvation (Acts 4:10-12, John 14:6) are part of larger Christian family. We don't all see eye to eye, but that's not what matters, sometimes I love the differences, like how we interpret Jesus words in John 6, its fun to compare, critique, and converse about these matters; it would be boring otherwise.

I have come to appreciate much in the Catholic Church, I have my own Crucifixes and copy of "The Imitation of Christ" by Thomas Kempis, and I have a guilty pleasure of being closet historian of the Crusades (I have read many volumes from a diversity of authors). While I will always uphold the Holy Scriptures as my testate for all doctrine, and I hold to Five Solaes (Solus) of By Grace, Through Faith, in Christ Alone, trust Scripture Alone for doctrine, and Glory be to God Alone, I bear not ill will in my heart for my Catholic brothers.

Amen brother. 

[TheMatrixHasU71]

On 4/30/2017 at 1:10 AM, Judas Machabeus said:

Catholics are not asking for mediation, that's a made up accusation made by Protestants. Catholic seek prayers from the Saints in heaven. 

We are called upon to pray to the Father in the name of Jesus and no other. Not some dead saint that cant hear or see you. 

We can ask others still living here on earth to pray for us but not the dead. Yes even the DEAD in Christ are still called DEAD. They cant hear or see or speak to us. There is nothing in the bible that states that we can pray to the dead, neither implicitly or explicitly.

[TheMatrixHasU71]

On 4/28/2017 at 5:40 PM, Judas Machabeus said:

So I'll ask again. 

How do you know anything is true? Maybe it's just a manifestation of the devil.

 

 

I already answered it above

[TheMatrixHasU71]

13 hours ago, Judas Machabeus said:

Revelation 5:8

8 And when he had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each holding a harp, and with golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints; 

this shows two fold, one that the Saints in heaven are not only aware of our prayers but offer them up in golden bowls to the lamb. 

No it doesnt. It doesnt say that they hear our prayers or can answer them or can intercede for us in any way. They are just delivering them.

I have said this more than once before and I will say it again. Compare it to being like a postman. 

They know they are carrying messages, they know where they are coming from and where they are going to. But they dont see the mail and are not allowed to read them or answer them because the letters are not meant for them.

Likewise the angels and elders in heaven may be aware of the prayers of us still living and they deliver them to God but they are for God's eyes only. They cannot intercede for us in any way. They cannot hear our prayers or answer them.

Edited May 1, 2017 by TheMatrixHasU71