Repentance and Sin No More, Perfection and Born of the Spirit

[simplejeff]

From the cover page at Apologetics Press Do Chrisitians Sin?  the following quote is a good (potentially) start:

"Lenski explained that 1 John 3:6,9 uses a Greek construction called the present durative, which should be translated “does not go on sinning” (pp. 458,462). John, then, is saying no more in these verses than what Paul was saying in Romans 6:1-2, when he stated: “What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any long in it?” Numerous other verses teach that Christians will commit sins, even after they have been washed in the blood of Christ (cf. Romans 7:14-25; Philippians 3:12-13). However, John is saying that any person who rebelliously continues to sin, making it his or her usual, habitual way of life, is not following God. In 1 John 3:9, the Greek present infinitive means to habitually sin without compunction. In more practical terms (to offer an example), it is one thing for a Christian to slip up and commit an act of sexual immorality for which he or she is penitent. It is altogether another thing for a person to live as a prostitute and claim to be “having fellowship with the Father” (1 John 1:6)."

 

It clearly shows that those who go on sinning week after week without repenting,  "is not following God" ..... (to put it most politely - since the end thereof is the way of death/ destruction) ....

[Danger Noodle]

29 minutes ago, Yowm said:

Agreed, and I was afraid this thread was taking that course...sinless perfection.

Anyone can claim sinless perfection after they have moved the goal post.

And yet moving the goal post in order to afford that claim would in itself be misleading through scripture. And that itself would qualify as a sin wouldn't it?

[Willa]

 2Co 7:8 NKJV For even if I made you sorry with my letter, I do not regret it; though I did regret it. For I perceive that the same epistle made you sorry, though only for a while. 2Co 7:9  Now I rejoice, not that you were made sorry, but that your sorrow led to repentance. For you were made sorry in a godly manner, that you might suffer loss from us in nothing.  2Co 7:10  For godly sorrow produces repentance leading to salvation, not to be regretted; but the sorrow of the world produces death.

There is an initial turning from sin to faith IN God.  And once born again it is the life of Jesus in us that is able to overcome sin.  Repentance creates in us a desire to make things right, both toward God and to men.    

 Act 20:21  “testifying to Jews, and also to Greeks, repentance toward God and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.

 Act 26:20  “but declared first to those in Damascus and in Jerusalem, and throughout all the region of Judea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent, turn to God, and do works befitting repentance.

That is to say that once we are born again and follow Christ, walking in the Spirit, we will no longer fulfill the works of the flesh.  We focus on doing the things He shows us to do instead of focusing on sin and not doing it.  

Gal 5:16  But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. Gal 5:17  For the desires of the flesh are against the Spirit, and the desires of the Spirit are against the flesh, for these are opposed to each other, to keep you from doing the things you want to do. Gal 5:18  But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

Rom 8:5  For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit. Rom 8:6  For to set the mind on the flesh is death, but to set the mind on the Spirit is life and peace.

[Behold]

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Salvation, is God's part in your Redemption, whereby He offer's Himself for your sin on THE Cross, and then gives you His very Righteousness so that He can accept you and fellowship with you for all eternity..

Discipleship, is your part, .....and your part is to live your life worshipfully, always remembering and respecting and appreciating what He did for you, by willingly and continually presenting to Him a Devout Lifestyle that reflects His Holiness.

Edited April 3, 2017 by Behold

[Danger Noodle]

42 minutes ago, Yowm said:

True, problem is, the original goalpost, in reality, is immovable.

Sin, by any other definition, is still sin.

That is certainly true. 

[Jeff2]

True, problem is, the original goalpost, in reality, is immovable. 

So why do so many Christians oppose it? Why do they change the goalpost?

The wages of sin is death” (Rom. 6:23). The soul that sinneth, it shall die” (Ezek. 18:4). “He that committeth sin is of the devil.” (1 Jn. 3: 8). “Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin;” (1 Jn. 3:9).

[Jeff2]

Repentance is much more Biblically speaking than a mere “change of heart.”  

As stories go, they are all flawed. But I believe the following displays what I am trying to say: 

There are three married men, all three are notorious adulterers. All three realize that this behavior is not right, and all three “repent.”

Husband #1. Says, “I have had a change of heart about going out on my wife, It hurts her deeply. That makes me sad.” Yet, in spite of this, he continues as he always done, and is currently committing adultery every day.

Husband #2. Says,  “I have had a change of heart about going out on my wife, It hurts her deeply. That makes me sad.” I “try” not to cheat on my wife, but as you know, I’m a man, and that is what men do! I love my wife so much that I only “occasionally” fall off the Married bandwagon.”

Husband #3. Says,  “I have personally hurt my wife and violated my marriage vow. I turn from my adultery and vow to be faithful to my wife. I will never hurt her again in this way!”

Which husband “Repented”?

 According to how many define repentance here, all three would qualify as valid Biblical repentance. I however would say that only #3 every really repented.  The same thing can be said of Biblical repentance. Sin, crimes against God and man are what made the death of Christ necessary! Sin put Jesus on the Cross! How can a person truly “repent” (have a true change of heart) concerning the devastation of sin on themselves, the World, and most of all, upon the Savior, and not include the other definition of “repent,” which is to turn and forsake sin, and turn to God?

If I put into the terms of saving faith, if one does not turn from sin, they are not convinced that their sin was the cause of Jesus having to go to the Cross on their behalf. They are not really convinced that they need a Savior. Any faith that does not bring about genuine repentance is a sham faith, and one who persists with such a faith is still dead in their trespasses and sins. This is not works, this is Biblical faith.

[Jeff2]

I believe it is because they lower the standards to stroke their egos into thinking they can attain being sinless. 
If they had a vision of how high and Holy God is they wouldn't dream of such nonsense. 

And I always thought that people doubted the power of God to accomplish what He commands, and that they loved their sin more than the Savior. I guess that I will have to serve the powerful God of the Bible that actually works in and through people to do what He commands, regardless of such self-serving "visions."