Why We Should Mourn for the Copts, But Not Assume They’re Christians

[Guest shiloh357]

5 hours ago, Danger Noodle said:

I've seen enough threads to his credit to offer respectful disagreement with you there sister.

 

No, you haven't.  At least not any that violated the biblical injunction about not judging.

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I live my life knowing my Father speaks truth according to his will, for his purpose, and glory. He calls those whom he will to his son. No one comes to his only Son Jesus unless Father calls them. And once there no one can rip them from our Saviors hand. 

I do not place myself in the seat that second guesses my Father. The Orthodox church in Egypt follows the scriptures as pertains to eternal Salvation, Baptism, etc... As I said, they do not practice as many Christians practice but then again, there are so many denominations that we Protestants are even divided under the roof of our own House of the Lord. 

 

No, the Orthodox chruch in Egypt does not follow the Scriptures and your attempt to defend them and prove that theirs is a Christian religion was a failure.  Their theology of salvation is a theology of works and synergy which is the antithesis of the Gospel.

 

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I will never compound their terror with my judgment that a single one of those Egyptian Orthodox Christians , living or dead, are not qualified to be called Christian. As is happening in the OP, through the vehicle of someone elses article which is then propagated to go further in its denouncement of those Orthodox Christians in Egypt.  And these many pages demonstrate it will be without end for as long as others are led to follow that intention that says, pride and arrogance knows more than the Father who knew his own before the womb. 

Sorry, but they simply don't qualify for salvation if the don't follow the biblical prescription for how one is saved, which you aptly demonstrated that they don't.   No emotional argumentation is going to change that objective fact.

 

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forum is a Ministry.

This site was named the other day on the Hank Hanegraaff show. Did you know that? Monday's Bible Answer Man broadcast and roughly 13 minutes in, WCF's web address was given by a caller before she asked Hank H. to clarify the report, by this same OP member, promoting someone elses allusions, not facts, that Hank H. had converted to Greek Orthodoxy. [He did not].  Now, that new Hank Hanegraaff thread is continuing last I saw to slander his faith and further the gossip about him. In a ministry forum. 

 

When you called in, he did not deny he converted to Greek Orthodox.  He admitted that he has been going to a Greek Orthodox Church for two years, albeit he maintains that his theology hasn't changed.   But that wasn't a denial of conversion and we have the picture of his Chrismation.

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 Imagine those who may seek us out for community. And then find that spirit of judgment that thinks it has a right to judge whether or not they belong here. Without ever realizing Father's warning. God is Sovereign! Judge not lest ye be judged. One day we shall all give an account of how we walked our faith carrying the name of Christ on our lips. 

No one, Christian or not, has been denied the right to belong to this board.   The only "judgment" here is coming from your posts, not ours.

 

[Guest shiloh357]

13 hours ago, TheMatrixHasU71 said:

No. That was speaking the truth. I cant see how I can make myself any clearer. 

I agree with Coptic church is a corrupt church. I agree that many within her are not saved. What I do object to is someone who thinks they can judge the hearts and souls of anybody he has never even met and spoken to about the word of God and dare say that they are ALL lost.

 

No one ever said that.

[TheMatrixHasU71]

10 hours ago, shiloh357 said:

No one ever said that.

But that is EXACTLY what the initial post said. 

[Guest shiloh357]

Just now, TheMatrixHasU71 said:

But that is EXACTLY what the initial post said. 

No it said we cannot assume they are all Christians.   It did not categorically state that no one in the Coptic Church is a Christian.

It also said that anyone who holds to the Coptic faith and theology cannot be saved because they don't believe the true Gospel.  There might be some in the Coptic church who are saved, but that is in spite of Coptic theology, not as  result of it. 

[Danger Noodle]

On 4/12/2017 at 8:28 AM, TheMatrixHasU71 said:

No. That was speaking the truth. I cant see how I can make myself any clearer. 

I agree with Coptic church is a corrupt church. I agree that many within her are not saved. What I do object to is someone who thinks they can judge the hearts and souls of anybody he has never even met and spoken to about the word of God and dare say that they are ALL lost.

 

Your objection is righteous brother. That's what is happening in the article shared in the OP and beyond. 

ISIS brand of Islam is that which is in practice in Saudi Arabia, Wahhabism. Is it any wonder Saudi Arabia refuses to take in the refugees of Syria after ISIS made their homeland intolerable? ISIS slaughtered the Coptic Orthodox Christians because they are not believed to be in god's will. That would be the god of ISIS, Allah. Therefore, they don't deserve to live. Slaughter all Christians in Egypt and Egypt becomes the land of ISIS. Or so they think. 

The tragedy compounded on Palm Sunday arrives when the dead are claimed to not have been Christian in the first place. That's horrific in itself. 

[Guest shiloh357]

28 minutes ago, Danger Noodle said:

Your objection is righteous brother. That's what is happening in the article shared in the OP and beyond. 

ISIS brand of Islam is that which is in practice in Saudi Arabia, Wahhabism. Is it any wonder Saudi Arabia refuses to take in the refugees of Syria after ISIS made their homeland intolerable? ISIS slaughtered the Coptic Orthodox Christians because they are not believed to be in god's will. That would be the god of ISIS, Allah. Therefore, they don't deserve to live. Slaughter all Christians in Egypt and Egypt becomes the land of ISIS. Or so they think. 

The tragedy compounded on Palm Sunday arrives when the dead are claimed to not have been Christian in the first place. That's horrific in itself. 

If they don't believe the Gospel and follow their own false theology of salvation by works, then they are not believers.  And while that may offend some emotionally, it is the truth.  We are supposed to consider them Christians because they were slaughtered for adhering to a form of the Christian religion.  No one is Christian because they were martyred for the Christian religion.   That is not the biblical standard.

[Spock]

On 4/11/2017 at 5:09 PM, Yowm said:

I suppose Paul's warning was judgmental' and 'mean spirited' as well?...

Galatians 1:8-9 KJV
[8] But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. [9] As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

 

ThNk you for posting this passage in Galatians.  We all need to step back and seriously ponder the implications of Pauls words. 

Assuming the Coptic doctrines as specified in the article, then it sure looks like they are adding human merit to ones justification (salvation), right?  I mean what the heck is that oil that has to be added? 

So, the point Shiloh and the author of that article is simply - are people who adhere to that theology really brothers and sisters in Christ? To me, an article like that should make us all stop and ask ourselves- what does the Bible say regarding justification with God? The article and Shiloh both say this- one is saved by Faith alone (works merely proves ones faith). 

Do the Coptic believe that?  It doesn't sound like they do? So, go back to what Jesus said when he was told a bunch of people died while worshipping. 

IMO, Stuff like this should cause more introspection and less condemning. Again, follow Jesus' lead here. 

But of course, we are all saddened by this act of cruelty toward ones fellow man.  We are all made in Gods image. 

Edited April 19, 2017 by Spock

[JoshuasonFlower]

Even the terrorist who took the lives of these Egyptian people knew they were Christians and as such deserved of death. Now this discussion implies page after page, word after word, in a dark and veiled message to add to that terrorists evil that the people in church on palm Sunday were killed for nothing. Because they were not actually in Christ.

God rest the souls of his people

God forgive the those that lay curses upon the dead. Amen.

[Spock]

27 minutes ago, JoshuasonFlower said:

Even the terrorist who took the lives of these Egyptian people knew they were Christians and as such deserved of death. Now this discussion implies page after page, word after word, in a dark and veiled message to add to that terrorists evil that the people in church on palm Sunday were killed for nothing. Because they were not actually in Christ.

God rest the souls of his people

God forgive the those that lay curses upon the dead. Amen.

I'm sure you know Not everyone who goes to a "Christian" church is a Christian.  In fact, I would surmise only a minority perhaps are.  It is a narrow gate and a narrow path, but most people want it to be broad. 

As a result of this tragedy, many of us got to read the Coptic church doctrines and some of us don't like what we saw.  Is it another Gospel other than the one Paul preached? 

This same question we all should ask anytime we step in any church we may be visiting. 

 

[Your closest friendnt]

5 hours ago, JoshuasonFlower said:

Even the terrorist who took the lives of these Egyptian people knew they were Christians and as such deserved of death. Now this discussion implies page after page, word after word, in a dark and veiled message to add to that terrorists evil that the people in church on palm Sunday were killed for nothing. Because they were not actually in Christ.

God rest the souls of his people

God forgive the those that lay curses upon the dead. Amen.

 It was a warning that the terrorists will attact the churches on the Holy week. 

Many Believers ( and I called them Believers in Jesus Christ) they decided to take the risk and putting their faith in action they went to church to celebrate something. I won't say what, but what does anyone think they risk their lives and put down the fear and intimidation and armed with the shield of faith, and their trust in Jesus Christ, went to celebrate the palm Sunday and sing the glorious songs, they disciples sing that time. 

(James was beheaded very early, before Stephan, does that make him an unbeliever or a sinner)

All the people who died to the Lions , were they lost because they were not evangelicals. 

Who can judge their faith. 

Those saints in the name of Jesus Christ were hoping to celebrate the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. 

I am sudden by the many comments that ignore to look in their beleiving in Jesus Christ.

They were there to celebrate the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. 

And many blind them selfs to that fact. 

They have not deneid faith in Jesus Christ, they believe and confess faith in Jesus Christ. 

Many want to look only in their cultural practice of their faith, which is deferent from their. 

Very well I am not going to say anything else about that , only I will speak on behalf of JESUS CHRIST, and say the most beautiful words, the same words JESUS has said, regarding those who have died because of their faith in him, everyone knows their place in Heaven, definitely is a better one than ours who die naturally. 

Jesus Christ is the one who justifies everyone who has faith in him. 

They may not have the light to understand, that they are already Justified apart from their (works, rituals, and so on), 

The most important thing is that Jesus Christ is not ignorant that he is the one who justifies everyone who has faith in him. 

So they are justified and they don't know it, but Jesus does. 

And they are born from above, according to their faith, everyone who believes Jesus Christ has died for their sins is born from above, that what Jesus was telling Nicodemus. 

Being from the fleshy inheritance of the house of Jacob, does not make one born from above. 

Jesus was telling Nicodemus, that he may believe in him that time, before he died that he is the CHRIST, but that will not help. Nicodemus must believe in Jesus Christ after he sees JESUS CHRIST died on the Cross, then he is born from above , whether they know it or not, 

Jesus Christ knows that what matters. 

They believe they are to be with JESUS CHRIST in Heaven, this is a confession that they are from Jesus Christ inheritance, that they are born from above , without saying the words " born from above", these  words "born from above", is the same as having a Heavenly inheritance with JESUS CHRIST. 

Nothing can take them from me, nothing, that what Jesus Christ says. 

Nothing, nothing. 

Jesus Christ justifies by faith, not only those who know it, but also those who profess his name and they do not know it. 

PS

I don't mean the devils , because all the devils know the truth and believe it, that's why they try to tell people not to believe in Jesus Christ , but to believe in God, if that's what the people want. 

Jesus Christ mission was to die for man and not for the devils, that's why God sent his son in the world as a man, so he can redeem and save only the man. (Of course that includes women and children, but never the devils). 

JESUS CHRIST came to save man, and to judge the Devil.