Eastern Orthodoxy vs. Biblical Christianity

[Limey_Bob]

23 hours ago, shiloh357 said:

No, they are not closer to the Bible, their emphasis on praying to saints, Mary and salvation by works and rejection of the authority of Scripture places them outside of Scripture and outside of the Christian faith preached by the Apostles and Jesus.   The Gospel is salvation by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone.   If you're not preaching that, you're not saved, no matter what denomination you belong to.

You have misquoted me, I said that they were closer to the Bible on the issue of the Trinity, not on soteriology (i.e. justification and sanctification). Functionally, many evangelicals here in the UK, partly due to the influence of GOD TV which is based in my town (Plymouth) are functionally non-Trinitarian. Please don't deliberately misquote me again.

[Limey_Bob]

20 hours ago, shiloh357 said:

the RCC and EO are wrong because they rely on tradition and not Scripture.   I don't need to see anything from their side.  I have the Bible and I simply need to see it from God's side.

Evangelical Christians have just as many non-Biblical traditions as the Catholics and Orthodox, human nature being what it is, they only see errors and man-made traditions in other groups and not in their own sect. Take compulsory tithing for instance, that is an evangelical tradition in  many fellowships, but Malachi 3:10 is OLD COVENANT for JEWS and is not applicable for new covenant Christians.

[Limey_Bob]

23 hours ago, shiloh357 said:

It's not that where you attend determines if you are saved or not.  No one said that.   The problem is what kind of Gospel is being taught where you attend.   If where you attend is teaching a false gospel as is taught in the EO, RCC, and some "churches"  in Evangelical circles, if you are not getting the true Gospel, then it is likely that you are not saved.  There is only one true Gospel and it is the Gospel of Salvation by grace alone, through faith alone in Christ alone.  Any other Gospel is anathema and those who preach another Gospel are anathema, according to Paul.

Here in the UK, evangelicals (especially of the Charismatic and Pentecostal variety) tend to get the Trinity and the person of Christ very seriously wrong, but not the work of Christ, but such fellowships are often more correct on soteriology (justification and sanctification) than Catholics and Orthodox. To repeat myself, British Evangelical Church web sites often have excellent definitions of the Trinity, the trouble is that people get appointed to church leadership who simply do not adhere to or even understand their own creedal statements, and so there is a tendency here in the UK for evangelical Church leaders simply to just "make stuff up as they go along," and not having a good grasp of the Trinity, their definitions are often non-Trinitarian, I have come across this constantly. Whilst, Roman Catholics and Orthodox are in my opinion far more biblical than evangelicals on the doctrine of the Trinity and the person of Christ, but they are often far less Biblical than evangelicals on soteriology and Christ's work. Nobody gets everything absolutely right theologically, including myself, but often its the more immature Christian who believes that you need to go to his church, as his pastor has got everything 100% completely perfect, and there is some biblical passage which commands attendance at his pastor's (usually evangelical) church. Frankly, as you mature, you tend to see things from a higher perspective, and many fellowships are in an absolutely dire state today, that's a fact, to only see fault in somebody else's group and never in your own speaks volumes as to where such a person is in their own Christian walk.

[Guest shiloh357]

19 minutes ago, Limey_Bob said:

Evangelical Christians have just as many non-Biblical traditions as the Catholics and Orthodox, human nature being what it is, they only see errors and man-made traditions in other groups and not in their own sect. Take compulsory tithing for instance, that is an evangelical tradition in  many fellowships, but Malachi 3:10 is OLD COVENANT for JEWS and is not applicable for new covenant Christians.

Evangelicals do not have any tradition of compulsory tithing.  That is just nonsense.   And unlike unbiblical groups lie the EO and the RCC, our traditions are not connected to salvation.   We observe traditions not in the Bible, but unlike the RCC and EO, our traditions don't contradict biblical doctrine. 

[Guest shiloh357]

4 minutes ago, Limey_Bob said:

Here in the UK, evangelicals (especially of the Charismatic and Pentecostal variety) tend to get the Trinity and the person of Christ very seriously wrong, but not the work of Christ, but such fellowships are often more correct on soteriology (justification and sanctification) than Catholics and Orthodox. To repeat myself, British Evangelical Church web sites often have excellent definitions of the Trinity, the trouble is that people get appointed to church leadership who simply do not adhere to or even understand their own creedal statements, and so there is a tendency here in the UK for evangelical Church leaders simply to just "make stuff up as they go along," and not having a good grasp of the Trinity, their definitions are often non-Trinitarian, I have come across this constantly. Whilst, Roman Catholics and Orthodox are in my opinion far more biblical than evangelicals on the doctrine of the Trinity and the person of Christ, but they are often far less Biblical than evangelicals on soteriology and Christ's work. Nobody gets everything absolutely right theologically, including myself, but often its the more immature Christian who believes that you need to go to his church, as his pastor has got everything 100% completely perfect, and there is some biblical passage which commands attendance at his pastor's (usually evangelical) church. Frankly, as you mature, you tend to see things from a higher perspective, and many fellowships are in an absolutely dire state today, that's a fact, to only see fault in somebody else's group and never in your own speaks volumes as to where such a person is in their own Christian walk.

Nobody corners the market on doctrinal truth, but Evangelicals have, historically, been far more biblical than the RCC or the EO.   I don't what British Evangelicals believe, but I know what American Evangelicals believe and they get it right both with the Trinity and other biblical issues.   Doctrines are connected to each other.  You cannot get the Trinity wrong, but get other doctrines right.  It doesn't work like that.

[Limey_Bob]

7 hours ago, shiloh357 said:

Evangelicals do not have any tradition of compulsory tithing.  That is just nonsense.   And unlike unbiblical groups lie the EO and the RCC, our traditions are not connected to salvation.   We observe traditions not in the Bible, but unlike the RCC and EO, our traditions don't contradict biblical doctrine. 

Some evangelicals here incorporate a command to tithe into their Church doctrinal statement of faith, many more others might not formally include it, but unless you tithe regularly with no-gaps, you will not even be considered for any leadership position. So my comments are not nonsense, they are practiced by some British churches as the commandments of God, when tithing for new Covenant Christians is in fact not even Biblical. You see for many denominations, tithing is a tradition of men, just like the mass or stations of the cross are within Catholicism. The trouble with Evangelicals, is that they only see traditions of men within other groups, they are rarely self-critical and so they refuse to see traditions of men within their own denominations. 

Edited April 27, 2017 by Limey_Bob

[Fidei Defensor]

I have spent time studying Eastern Orthodoxy. I have read books on their doctrines and theology, watched videos from their esteemed clergy, and so forth. From what I can tell its "labyrinth that goes in circles and ends with its a mystery." Eastern Orthodoxy from my studies is actually Constantine's Church created in 312-333 A.D. Constantine merged Sol Invictus (sun god) with the Son of God for his pagan people in what became Byzantium. If you attended Friday Vigil, they do ceremony to the sun, and it gave me 24hr head ache. I have tried to get through the dense material on their doctrines and it always ends with mystery, "salvation is mystery." Actually no, its not, it's very simple (John 6:40, Romans 10:9-10). There is a clause in Orthodox Theology, in particular Kallistos Ware's book "The Orthodox Church" that says God is unfathomable and unknowable. Tell that to the Apostles, and plethora of Scriptures: This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent," (John 17:3), "and to know the love of Christ which surpasses knowledge, that you may be filled up to all the fullness of God," (Ephensians 3:19), "so that you will walk in a manner worthy of the Lord, to please Him in all respects, bearing fruit in every good work and to know God better and better," (Colossians 1:10), "Now if we are children, then we are heirs--heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory," (Romans 8:17), "Therefore, prepare your minds for action, keep sober in spirit, fix your hope completely on the grace to be brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ," (1 Peter 1:13), "I am the good shepherd; I know my sheep and my sheep know me," (John 10:14, Jesus is God Col 2:9, Titus 2:13-17), "We know that we have come to know him if we keep his commands," (1 John 2:3), "By this we know that we remain in Him, and He in us: He has given us of His Spirit," (1 John 4:13), and "Whoever keeps His commandments remains in God, and God in him. And by this we know that He remains in us: by the Spirit He has given us," (1 John 3:24), "My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me," (John 10:27), "I am the vine; you are the branches. Whoever abides in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing," (John 15:15), "Let us then approach God's throne of grace with confidence, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help us in our time of need," (Hebrews 4:16), and "For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit, in which he went and proclaimed to the spirits in prison, because they formerly did not obey, when God's patience waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through water. Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, with angels, authorities, and powers having been subjected to him," (1 Peter 3:18-22).

Edited May 3, 2017 by Fidei Defensor

[Happinessity]

Divisiveness in the body of Christ is something Satan has sought to interject since the beginning of God's plan of salvation began to unfold beneath his nose. 

The Bible tells us we are all one in Christ Jesus. And as such the weaponry of division has no effect upon the saints in Christ. Every church from the most ancient unto the contemporary denominational branches are as I see this , God's way of leaving a pathway for the one who finds in their heart a connection to the community within those churches. God's truth has survived over 2ooo years and so has his church. What weapon formed against the universal body can stand against God's plan. 

Jude 3 tells us Orthodox Christianity is the faith handed once to the saints. I'd not be one to voice condemnation of it at all. 

Quote

Fedei Defensor said: There is a clause in Orthodox Theology, in particular Kallistos Ware's book "The Orthodox Church" that says God is unfathomable and unknowable. Tell that to the Apostles, and plethora of Scriptures:

The Prophets and the Apostles already told us that didn't they? “For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways,”declares the Lord. “As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts."  Isaiah 55:8-9

Psalm 77:19 Your way was through the sea,and your path through many waters.Yet your footprints were not discerned.

Psalm 92:5 How great are your deeds, O Yahweh;how very deep are your thoughts.

Matthew 11:25 At that time Jesus answered and said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and intelligent, and have revealed them to young children.

Romans 11:34-36 or who has known the mind of the Lord, or who has been his counselor? Or who has given in advance to him, and it will be paid back to him?” For from him and through him and to him are all things.To him be glory for eternity! Amen.

The Bible gives us insight into virtually anything that arrives in our life. Be it at the time of the ancients or now. 

I've not attended an Orthodox Christian church service but I won't argue against their faith and devotion to our Lord. Maybe what makes it a lack of understanding is because what is different and unknown is considered wrong in the eyes of some. But that isn't fair I don't think when looking to the fellow Christians that are part of the united body of the faith in Christ. 
There are scriptures that tell us what to do when we don't understand scripture as we study it. 2 Peter 3:15-17.

 

[Guest shiloh357]

26 minutes ago, Happinessity said:

Quote

Divisiveness in the body of Christ is something Satan has sought to interject since the beginning of God's plan of salvation began to unfold beneath his nose. 

The Bible tells us we are all one in Christ Jesus. And as such the weaponry of division has no effect upon the saints in Christ. Every church from the most ancient unto the contemporary denominational branches are as I see this , God's way of leaving a pathway for the one who finds in their heart a connection to the community within those churches. God's truth has survived over 2ooo years and so has his church. What weapon formed against the universal body can stand against God's plan. 

Jude 3 tells us Orthodox Christianity is the faith handed once to the saints. I'd not be one to voice condemnation of it at all. 

 

No, Jude 3 does not say that the Eastern Orthodox Christianity is the faith handed once to the saints. 

Quote

The Prophets and the Apostles already told us that didn't they?

The Bible does not say that God is unknowable.   He is beyond our ability to fathom completely, but God is quite knowable and made Himself known to man in many, many ways, not the least of which is through His Son Jesus and the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit and His Written Word.

 

Quote

I've not attended an Orthodox Christian church service but I won't argue against their faith and devotion to our Lord. Maybe what makes it a lack of understanding is because what is different and unknown is considered wrong in the eyes of some. But that isn't fair I don't think when looking to the fellow Christians that are part of the united body of the faith in Christ. 
There are scriptures that tell us what to do when we don't understand scripture as we study it. 2 Peter 3:15-17.

They reject the true Gospel and authority of Scripture for the authority of Church tradition.

[Happinessity]

30 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

No, Jude 3 does not say that the Eastern Orthodox Christianity is the faith handed once to the saints. 

The Bible does not say that God is unknowable.   He is beyond our ability to fathom completely, but God is quite knowable and made Himself known to man in many, many ways, not the least of which is through His Son Jesus and the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit and His Written Word.

 

They reject the true Gospel and authority of Scripture for the authority of Church tradition.

I don't believe conjurers of division has any place among the saints of holy God. Turning the words God inspired to say what someone wants them to say so as to cause division isn't something I participate in. You'll understand.