Genesis 1 & 2

[BobRyan]

On 5/20/2017 at 9:02 AM, Aryeh said:

Yeah, if the professor, then he knows for sure.

He knows for sure the opinions of his fellow professors in world class universities -- as he claims? yes that is probably true.

In other words if the question is 'what does the text say?" and "is it written as a historic account?" - then the answer is yes - that is the "kind of literature" that it is and that is what the experts in the Hebrew language affirm about it. Not that they "believe what it says" of course. But they at least "know what it says".

[BobRyan]

On 5/20/2017 at 10:12 AM, TheMatrixHasU71 said:

Very probably. As there is no mention of a second period of creation (creating the dinos, I mean) after, say, Adam and Eve were kicked out. Its probably also at least partially why Adam and Eve ad the first few generations could live for centuries. No UV light getting through.

True - one Creation event for all life on Earth and that is what we find in Genesis 1 and 2. With Genesis 2 adding "details" about marriage and the garden of Eden and the "Two Trees" etc not included in Genesis 1-2:4 "account".

Dinosaurs and the like would have been there in some form as part of the original creation in Genesis 1 - but just as thorns and predatory behaviors evolved from more peaceful species prior to the fall - so also the post-fall dinosaurs.

[simplejeff]

On 5/20/2017 at 9:25 AM, TheMatrixHasU71 said:

We are all made in the image of GOD so I dont know where you are going with this

It was a casual (for research ) post prompted by severe errors in some previous post(s), in case anyone was looking/ seeking.

As for as "in the image of GOD", this came up on another thread a little while ago >>>

Matthew 5:45 - Bible Gateway
https://www.biblegateway.com/verse/en/Matthew 5%3A45
so that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. For He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.

and

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John 8:44 KJV - Ye are of your father the devil, and - Bible Gateway
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+8%3A44&version=KJV
Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because.

C. Children of God Contrasted with Children of the Devil (3:7–10 ...
https://www.biblegateway.com/resources/asbury-bible.../Children-God-Contrasted
The idea of family likeness continues: As God's children, we bear his likeness. Conversely, the children of the Devil bear his. But once again John focuses on the ...

1 John 3:10 KJV - In this the children of God are - Bible Gateway
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+John+3%3A10&version=KJV
In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not.

1 John 3 AMP - Children of God Love One Another - See - Bible ...
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+John+3&version=AMP
10 By this the children of God and the children of the devil are clearly identified: anyone who does not practice righteousness [who does not seek God's will in ...

[Retrobyter]

4 hours ago, BobRyan said:

True - one Creation event for all life on Earth and that is what we find in Genesis 1 and 2. With Genesis 2 adding "details" about marriage and the garden of Eden and the "Two Trees" etc not included in Genesis 1-2:4 "account".

Dinosaurs and the like would have been there in some form as part of the original creation in Genesis 1 - but just as thorns and predatory behaviors evolved from more peaceful species prior to the fall - so also the post-fall dinosaurs.

Shalom, BobRyan.

Just a point:

Carnivorous species didn't arrive until AFTER the Flood. Thus, predatory behaviors didn't begin until post-Flood, not post-fall.

Genesis 9:1-10
1 And God blessed Noah and his sons, and said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth.
2 And the fear of you and the dread of you shall be upon every beast of the earth, and upon every fowl of the air, upon all that moveth upon the earth, and upon all the fishes of the sea; into your hand are they delivered.
3 Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things.
4 But flesh with the life thereof, which is the blood thereof, shall ye not eat.
5 And surely your blood of your lives will I require; at the hand of every beast will I require it, and at the hand of man; at the hand of every man's brother will I require the life of man.
6 Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man.
7 And you, be ye fruitful, and multiply; bring forth abundantly in the earth, and multiply therein.
8 And God spake unto Noah, and to his sons with him, saying,
9 And I, behold, I establish my covenant with you, and with your seed after you;
10 And with every living creature that is with you, of the fowl, of the cattle, and of every beast of the earth with you; from all that go out of the ark, to every beast of the earth.
KJV

[BobRyan]

9 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, BobRyan.

Just a point:

Carnivorous species didn't arrive until AFTER the Flood. Thus, predatory behaviors didn't begin until post-Flood, not post-fall.

Genesis 9:1-10
1 And God blessed Noah and his sons, and said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth.
2 And the fear of you and the dread of you shall be upon every beast of the earth, and upon every fowl of the air, upon all that moveth upon the earth, and upon all the fishes of the sea; into your hand are they delivered.
3 Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things.
4 But flesh with the life thereof, which is the blood thereof, shall ye not eat.
5 And surely your blood of your lives will I require; at the hand of every beast will I require it, and at the hand of man; at the hand of every man's brother will I require the life of man.
6 Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man.
7 And you, be ye fruitful, and multiply; bring forth abundantly in the earth, and multiply therein.
8 And God spake unto Noah, and to his sons with him, saying,
9 And I, behold, I establish my covenant with you, and with your seed after you;
10 And with every living creature that is with you, of the fowl, of the cattle, and of every beast of the earth with you; from all that go out of the ark, to every beast of the earth.
KJV

Certainly both man and beast are prone to kill in that Genesis 9 statement. But Genesis 6 says this -- 

 

⁵ Then the Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

 

¹¹ The earth also was corrupt before God, and the earth was filled with violence. ¹² So God looked upon the earth, and indeed it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted their way on the earth.

Genesis 4 documents the fact that humans were murdering. But Genesis 6:11 has even the animals as "violent" to the point of needing to destroy them all.

All flesh - not merely humans... were violent before the flood. Violent to such a great extent that God destroyed the entire earth.

 

Therefore Genesis 9 cannot mean that before this no human and no animal was violent nor had they killed anyone. Rather I think the significance of chapter is that now all mankind was reduced to "just 8". So God commanded them with just laws - including capital punishment for murder - and all mankind was indeed "listening" because now they had been "reset" back to "8" and those 8 were supposedly following the one True God.

Edited May 23, 2017 by BobRyan

[Retrobyter]

On 5/23/2017 at 8:28 AM, BobRyan said:

Certainly both man and beast are prone to kill in that Genesis 9 statement. But Genesis 6 says this -- 

 

⁵ Then the Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

 

¹¹ The earth also was corrupt before God, and the earth was filled with violence. ¹² So God looked upon the earth, and indeed it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted their way on the earth.

Genesis 4 documents the fact that humans were murdering. But Genesis 6:11 has even the animals as "violent" to the point of needing to destroy them all.

All flesh - not merely humans... were violent before the flood. Violent to such a great extent that God destroyed the entire earth.

 

Therefore Genesis 9 cannot mean that before this no human and no animal was violent nor had they killed anyone. Rather I think the significance of chapter is that now all mankind was reduced to "just 8". So God commanded them with just laws - including capital punishment for murder - and all mankind was indeed "listening" because now they had been "reset" back to "8" and those 8 were supposedly following the one True God.

Shalom, BobRyan.

Okay, I'll give you that animals, like humans, could have become more violent before the Flood, but they didn't EAT those whom they attacked before the Flood.

[Guest shiloh357]

9 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, BobRyan.

Okay, I'll give you that animals, like humans, could have become more violent before the Flood, but they didn't EAT those whom they attacked before the Flood.

How do you know that?

[Retrobyter]

1 hour ago, shiloh357 said:

How do you know that?

Shalom, shiloh357.

Simple. Look at the evidence. Look at what God said:

Genesis 9:1-17
1 Then God blessed Noah and his sons, saying to them, "Be fruitful and increase in number and fill the earth. 2 The fear and dread of you will fall upon all the beasts of the earth and all the birds of the air, upon every creature that moves along the ground, and upon all the fish of the sea; they are given into your hands. 3 Everything that lives and moves will be food for you. Just as I gave you the green plants, I now give you everything. 
4 "But you must not eat meat that has its lifeblood still in it. 5 And for your lifeblood I will surely demand an accounting. I will demand an accounting from every animal. And from each man, too, I will demand an accounting for the life of his fellow man. 

6 "Whoever sheds the blood of man,
by man shall his blood be shed;
for in the image of God
has God made man. 

7 As for you, be fruitful and increase in number; multiply on the earth and increase upon it." 

8 Then God said to Noah and to his sons with him: 9 "I now establish my covenant with you and with your descendants after you 10 and with every living creature that was with you — the birds, the livestock and all the wild animals, all those that came out of the ark with you — every living creature on earth. 11 I establish my covenant with you: Never again will all life be cut off by the waters of a flood; never again will there be a flood to destroy the earth." 

12 And God said, "This is the sign of the covenant I am making between me and you and every living creature with you, a covenant for all generations to come: 13 I have set my rainbow in the clouds, and it will be the sign of the covenant between me and the earth. 14 Whenever I bring clouds over the earth and the rainbow appears in the clouds, 15 I will remember my covenant between me and you and all living creatures of every kind. Never again will the waters become a flood to destroy all life. 16 Whenever the rainbow appears in the clouds, I will see it and remember the everlasting covenant between God and all living creatures of every kind on the earth." 

17 So God said to Noah, "This is the sign of the covenant I have established between me and all life on the earth." 
NIV

Then, look back at the Creation:

Genesis 1:29-30
29 Then God said, "I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food. 30 And to all the beasts of the earth and all the birds of the air and all the creatures that move on the ground — everything that has the breath of life in it — I give every green plant for food." And it was so. 
NIV

THAT was their normal diet before the Flood.

 

[Guest shiloh357]

14 minutes ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, shiloh357.

Simple. Look at the evidence. Look at what God said:

Genesis 9:1-17
1 Then God blessed Noah and his sons, saying to them, "Be fruitful and increase in number and fill the earth. 2 The fear and dread of you will fall upon all the beasts of the earth and all the birds of the air, upon every creature that moves along the ground, and upon all the fish of the sea; they are given into your hands. 3 Everything that lives and moves will be food for you. Just as I gave you the green plants, I now give you everything. 
4 "But you must not eat meat that has its lifeblood still in it. 5 And for your lifeblood I will surely demand an accounting. I will demand an accounting from every animal. And from each man, too, I will demand an accounting for the life of his fellow man. 

6 "Whoever sheds the blood of man,
by man shall his blood be shed;
for in the image of God
has God made man. 

7 As for you, be fruitful and increase in number; multiply on the earth and increase upon it." 

8 Then God said to Noah and to his sons with him: 9 "I now establish my covenant with you and with your descendants after you 10 and with every living creature that was with you — the birds, the livestock and all the wild animals, all those that came out of the ark with you — every living creature on earth. 11 I establish my covenant with you: Never again will all life be cut off by the waters of a flood; never again will there be a flood to destroy the earth." 

12 And God said, "This is the sign of the covenant I am making between me and you and every living creature with you, a covenant for all generations to come: 13 I have set my rainbow in the clouds, and it will be the sign of the covenant between me and the earth. 14 Whenever I bring clouds over the earth and the rainbow appears in the clouds, 15 I will remember my covenant between me and you and all living creatures of every kind. Never again will the waters become a flood to destroy all life. 16 Whenever the rainbow appears in the clouds, I will see it and remember the everlasting covenant between God and all living creatures of every kind on the earth." 

17 So God said to Noah, "This is the sign of the covenant I have established between me and all life on the earth." 
NIV

Then, look back at the Creation:

Genesis 1:29-30
29 Then God said, "I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food. 30 And to all the beasts of the earth and all the birds of the air and all the creatures that move on the ground — everything that has the breath of life in it — I give every green plant for food." And it was so. 
NIV

THAT was their normal diet before the Flood.

 

All that states is that man was permitted to eat meat.  You have nothing from Scripture that states that animals were herbivorous before the flood.

[enoob57]

A lot of people should memorize/meditate on this verse

2 Corinthians 10:5 (KJV)

[5] Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;