The Tribulation?

[wingnut-]

12 minutes ago, Heb 13:8 said:

Right wingnut, we are changed from old body to new body in the twinkling of an eye. We don't exist as wind and breath in heaven.

 

As I said, we'll have to agree to disagree.

[simplejeff]

3 minutes ago, wingnut- said:

what the Jews believed were two compartments in sheol

Well,  this is correct anyway.

When Y'SHUA confronted some of the Jewish religious leaders,  He brought this up to discredit them or confound them or to teach them and lead them out from what they believed to the truth.

[Heb 13:8]

28 minutes ago, wingnut- said:

What the OT teaches and what the Jews believed were two compartments in sheol, one for the faithful and one for the non-believers.  

All of that changed following the cross, when Jesus died on the cross Abraham's bosom was emptied (Matthew 27)

Where do you come up with this stuff?? lol.

27 minutes ago, wingnut- said:

As I said, we'll have to agree to disagree.

So you're disagreeing that the twinkling of an eye refers to our bodies? Are you being serious here?

[wingnut-]

Just now, Heb 13:8 said:

Where do you come up with this stuff?? lol.

 

OneLight gave you all of the scriptural references in his post, if you had read them you would know the answer.  No point in me posting it again since you aren't really interested.  Come 9/24 you might be, so you know where to find it.

 

7 minutes ago, Heb 13:8 said:

So you're disagreeing that the twinkling of an eye refers to our bodies?

 

No, I agree that is when we receive our glorified bodies.  I disagree with you regarding what happens when a person dies.

[Heb 13:8]

2 minutes ago, wingnut- said:

Come 9/24 you might be, so you know where to find it.

Aside from the rapture, the Rev 12:1-5 sign is also pointing to the Day of the Lord and the 70th week...

Isa 13:6-8 Wail, for the day of the Lord is near; it will come like destruction from the Almighty. 7Because of this, all hands will go limp, every heart will melt with fear. 8Terror will seize them, pain and anguish will grip them; they will writhe like a woman in labor. They will look aghast at each other, their faces aflame.

Isa 26:17-21 As a pregnant woman about to give birth writhes and cries out in her pain, so were we in your presence, Lord. 18We were with child, we writhed in labor, but we gave birth to wind. We have not brought salvation to the earth, and the people of the world have not come to life. 19But your dead will live, Lord; their bodies will rise— let those who dwell in the dust wake up and shout for joy— your dew is like the dew of the morning; the earth will give birth to her dead. 20Go, my people, enter your rooms and shut the doors behind you; hide yourselves for a little while until his wrath has passed by. 21See, the Lord is coming out of his dwelling to punish the people of the earth for their sins. The earth will disclose the blood shed on it; the earth will conceal its slain no longer.

Jer 30:6-7 Ask and see: Can a man bear children? Then why do I see every strong man with his hands on his stomach like a woman in labor, every face turned deathly pale? 7How awful that day will be! No other will be like it. It will be a time of trouble for Jacob, but he will be saved out of it.

1 Thess 5:1-3 Now, brothers and sisters, about times and dates we do not need to write to you, 2for you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. 3While people are saying, “Peace and safety,” destruction will come on them suddenly, as labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape.

Rev 12:1-5 A great sign appeared in heaven: a woman (Israel) clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head.   2  She (Israel) was pregnant and cried out in pain as she was about to give birth.   3  Then another sign appeared in heaven: an enormous red dragon (Satan) with seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns on its heads.   4  Its tail swept a third of the stars out of the sky and flung them to the earth. The dragon (Satan) stood in front of the woman (Israel) who was about to give birth, so that it might devour her child (teknon the church) the moment he was born.   5  She gave birth to a son (huios Jesus Christ himself), a male child, who “will rule all the nations with an iron scepter.” And her child (teknon the church) was snatched up (harpazo) to God and to his throne.

Quote

I disagree with you regarding what happens when a person dies.

So we exist as breath and wind in heaven, huh..

[n2thelight]

On 5/28/2017 at 4:25 PM, Heb 13:8 said:

And what do you think the Hebrew and Greek word is for "spirit". Do we exist as wind and breath in heaven? 

Christ gave you the whole deal in the parable of the Richman and Lazarus

Luke 16:22 "And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom the rich man also died, and was buried;"

Lazarus was carried into heaven by the angels of God, while the rich man's body was buried in the ground and his soul went to Hades, the holding place before being destroyed by hell fire.

Luke 16:23 "And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom."

This is a parable about two men that actually lived, and when both died, the rich man could see Lazarus in heaven with Abraham. He could look across that great gulf that stood between them, but could not go there. Our Heavenly Father is the Father of the living and not the dead. Thus to be absent from this physical body of the flesh is to be present with the Lord. The soul does not go to the grave as the flesh does, but goes immediate to heaven. Those that did not overcome cannot be with those that overcame in this earth age, for they are separated. All souls can actually see the throne of God from where they are. Those that are on the rich man's side are being held for that great judgment day.

Luke 16:24 "And he cried and said, `Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.' "

There is no flame there yet, but there will be after Judgment day. God doesn't burn anybody until after judgment day. This rich man had everything that he wanted, but here in heaven, he can't even afford one drop of water. The role is switched here in heaven, for now Lazarus has the comfort of heaven, and the rich man has nothing, not even comfort.

Luke 16:25 "But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivest thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented."

Life has it's payday, and this is the rich man's time.

Luke 16:26 "And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.' "

"Between us that over came, and you that did not overcome, there is a great gulf fixed." That gulf is so fixed that even though one side can see the other side, there is no way to pass between. We can't go your way and you can't come our way. Luke is making the entire clear that you set your course in this life of the flesh, and when your soul passes into the next life, there is no changing what you have done in this life. This gulf or chasm is from the Greek "Chasma"; It means "an impassable interval". The interval is of time and space. This is telling us that if you die hell bound and enter into that other dimension, there is no way that you can reenter back into this dimension again. What ever side of the gulf you are on when you die, that is the side you stay until judgment day. This space is talked about by the prophet Ezra, or in the Greek "Esdras" in the Apocrypha, in the II Esdras 7:78-87. Though it is rejected in our bibles today, it was in the original king James version of 1611, until the American and British Bible societies removed it. It interfered with some of their traditions, and thus had to go. But it was revealed to Ezra by God.

[n2thelight]

13 hours ago, OneLight said:

To say there will not be a rapture is incorrect.  To say that the rapture will not be as some people declare can be correct.  We can't remove verses from scripture when it doesn't fit our theology.  Instead, we should search out why it does not fit a theology and correct the theology.

We gather back to Christ at the 7th and last trump period!

No Pre,Mid or Post rapture in the scriptures whatsoever

Show me one verse in scripture where Christ takes us to Heaven?

The only way one gets to Heaven is if they die before His return in which case He brings them back when He comes.

Those alive at that time will be changed as those returning

 

[n2thelight]

3 hours ago, Heb 13:8 said:

So we exist as breath and wind in heaven, huh..

What state do you think we were in before being born of woman?

Or do you think we were created at conception?

[Heb 13:8]

1 hour ago, n2thelight said:

Christ gave you the whole deal in the parable of the Richman and Lazarus

So, does Matt 25:1-13 parable, John 15:1-17 allegory and Rom 11:11-24 metaphor prove that OSAS is false? 

38 minutes ago, n2thelight said:

What state do you think we were in before being born of woman?

Or do you think we were created at conception?

Life begins at conception, not birth. Why do you think God hates abortion.

[n2thelight]

7 hours ago, Heb 13:8 said:

We don't exist as breath and wind in heaven. Do you ever go outside and stare at the wind or your breath when it's cold outside?

Where is Moses right now?

Did he not stand with Christ on the mount along with Elijah?

Take it they were sleep walking