The Tribulation?

[simplejeff]

2 hours ago, wingnut- said:

Who do you think was resurrected in the following passage?

Are you having trouble with the english version you posted yourself ?   If so,  I don't know how to explain it any better than it is written. 

Stick with what is written, as YHWH Says.

[Heb 13:8]

11 hours ago, n2thelight said:

We are with God before birth.

Right, but I'm referring to what happens on earth. Since the church on earth was conceived 2,000 years ago it must be born into incorruptible seed, which is rapture. That means the church has been in gestation for 2,000 years up until now. Any questions?

[Heb 13:8]

3 hours ago, wingnut- said:

First, it has nothing to do with the physical

He is talking to believers, so when he speaks of nakedness he is talking about the physical.  

Not having the Holy Spirit is what makes one naked spiritually, it has nothing to do with the physical.

She loves me, she loves me not. 

wingnut,

1 Cor 15:50-54 and 2 Cor 5:1-4 is not referring to the here and now while being alive on earth, it's referring to a future event (the first resurrection and rapture). Paul is saying that he'd rather be clothed with his resurrected body than be naked in the grave. It's a future event. Stop confusing people.

Job 1:21 and said: "Naked I came from my mother's womb, and naked I will depart. The LORD gave and the LORD has taken away; may the name of the LORD be praised."

Job 26:6 The realm of the dead is naked before God; Destruction lies uncovered.

Eccl 5:15 Everyone comes naked from their mother's womb, and as everyone comes, so they depart. They take nothing from their toil that they can carry in their hands.

4 hours ago, wingnut- said:

Who do you think was resurrected in the following passage?

Matthew 27:51 Then, behold, the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom; and the earth quaked, and the rocks were split, 52 and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised; 53 and coming out of the graves after His resurrection, they went into the holy city and appeared to many.

It's symbolism wingnut.

Matt 27:52 Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary - Thus, in the opening of the graves at the moment of the Redeemer's expiring, there was a glorious symbolical proclamation that the death which had just taken place had "swallowed up death in victory"; and whereas the saints that slept in them were awakened only by their risen Lord, to accompany Him out of the tomb, it was fitting that "the Prince of Life … should be the First that should rise from the dead" (Ac 26:23; 1Co 15:20, 23; Col 1:18; Re 1:5).

Matt 27:53 Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary - Thus, in the opening of the graves at the moment of the Redeemer's expiring, there was a glorious symbolical proclamation that the death which had just taken place had "swallowed up death in victory"; and whereas the saints that slept in them were awakened only by their risen Lord, to accompany Him out of the tomb, it was fitting that "the Prince of Life … should be the First that should rise from the dead" (Ac 26:23; 1Co 15:20, 23; Col 1:18; Re 1:5).

[wingnut-]

1 hour ago, simplejeff said:

Are you having trouble with the english version you posted yourself ?   If so,  I don't know how to explain it any better than it is written. 

Stick with what is written, as YHWH Says.

 

No, no problem with it at all.  It says graves (plural), and it says they (plural), so who would that be if not the Old Testament saints.  I would consider Moses as being among them, which is why I asked the question.  I am sticking with what is written, this is from scripture.

God bless

[simplejeff]

17 minutes ago, wingnut- said:

 

No, no problem with it at all.  It says graves (plural), and it says they (plural), so who would that be if not the Old Testament saints.  I would consider Moses as being among them, which is why I asked the question.  I am sticking with what is written, this is from scripture.

God bless

Why make such an improbable guess (not from Scripture?) ?  (nowhere is it indicated Moses was resurrected, btw, but that he will be with all the others is clearly stated )

Or does anything in Scripture indicate those who came out of the graves for a while were from the OT times, 

and not like Lazarus recent deaths and burials of people known to those still alive around Jerusalem  ? 

The more likely scenario ? >>

https://www.ucg.org/bible-study-tools/bible-questions-and-answers/what-happened-to-the-resurrected-saints-mentioned-in

... " After God brought the people mentioned in Matthew 27:52-53 back to life, they undoubtedly went back to their homes, where many acquaintances saw them. It's hard to imagine how utterly startling such an experience would be for their relatives and friends!

The Bible says nothing further about these people God resurrected at Christ's death, leaving us to conclude that they eventually died (again) and their families buried them (again). Along with all other saints who died, they await in their graves their resurrection to spirit life."... ...

 

Note that multitudes have been deceived with a lot of fairy tales concerning this and many other things....  the schools are pumping out the un-Biblical frequently,  and multitudes swallow it hook line and sinker without testing by prayer nor by God's Word nor by God's Spirit....

[wingnut-]

3 minutes ago, simplejeff said:

Why make such an improbable guess (not from Scripture?) ?  (no where is it indicated Moses was resurrected, btw, but that he will be with all the others is clearly stated )

 

What exactly makes it more improbable than the source you claim as a more likely scenario?  Nowhere in scripture does it say they continued their lives from before and then died again.  Scripture doesn't say they went back to their families either, it says they appeared to many.  What scripture does say, it is appointed once for man to die.  So in fact, your supported scenario is far less likely and takes far more liberties with what is written.

 

6 minutes ago, simplejeff said:

Or does anything in Scripture indicate those who came out of the graves for a while were from the OT times

 

Scripture says they were saints, what other saints existed prior to His death?  Scripture also talks about 24 elders in heaven, if they were angels it would say angels, so who else would that be?  There were two ages to this world, and all indications according to scripture is that there was a resurrection at the end of the first age, and one coming at the end of this age.

God bless

[simplejeff]

18 minutes ago, wingnut- said:

Scripture says they were saints, what other saints existed prior to His death?

Do you really, honestly , not know this !? 

Perhaps it should be no surprise on this forum,  but it is still unexpected..... 

Likewise the rest of that final paragraph of the post,   no,  it was not so.

I don't know where you first heard such things,  but much about those things is in error,  and

I have never seen anyone believing those errors to come around to the simple truth of Scripture yet.

(or don't remember anyway anyone who was saved from those errors once they accepted them).

Thus,  no amount of evidence or debate or posts or threads

or sources will change your mind, right ?

If not right,   then we might continue,  YHWH Willing.

 

(btw,  the quote/ link/ url was not my source originally;  it was / is / simply the most convenient one in line with all Scripture available on short notice.   You might find others who are members who will guide or direct you more clearly if you desire better clarification in line with all Scripture to illustrate the errors you believed from wherever you believed them....  I think it takes too much time and effort if you have already 'locked in' (for whatever reason)to those beliefs you posted  -  i.e. whenever someone believes and defends a certain school of beliefs instead of Scripture purely,  and whenever they depend on that 'school' for whatever kind of support they get from it,  they won't ever change their mind about it unless and until YHWH grants them the grace to come out of that 'school'

as in "come out of her MY children" =  if they stay in,  they don't come out, not even for truth).

[n2thelight]

Quote

Why make such an improbable guess (not from Scripture?) ?  (no where is it indicated Moses was resurrected, btw, but that he will be with all the others is clearly stated )

Scripture says we are not to communicate with the dead,how can he not be resurrected when he appeared with Christ?

[n2thelight]

Did not Christ go to hell and preach?If they were soul sleeping why did He do that?

[n2thelight]

Simple question

Why do rapturist fear death?