Stand Alone Verses

[Neighbor]

What verses can stand alone?

To stand alone without further explanation, without some clarifying context? Are there any?  Few?  Some? Many? All?

I ask  in order to open up a conversation about how  short bursts of Bible get utilized to sell a point. Yes sell. The point often enough does not have all that much that is Biblical in it as it has more a cause of the day  behind it's use. It becomes a slogan, or a mere jingle.

If the Bible is  a written record revealing of Jesus  and the one covenant of God with His creation, written by men over thousands of years, as inspired by God, and if God did not provide  chapters and verses, but men added them for their convenience in study, has the process of easing study by breaking out God's message  into chapters, and passages, and individual lines of verse,  often robbed the students of the whole point of the individual phrase made into verse?

 

Seems to me by the verse, that so called study aid, the Bible is dumbed down much like what  is like today's secular tweets. And is not much more useful either when quoted to make any significant point without reckoning it's full context and historic setting. Often enough a verse gets utilized to sell an idea that may be totally opposite of it's meaning when in fuller context of God's word to us.

The rote learning of verses may be a discipline, but I think it  is not great practice, if it not  at least encapsulated by it's full  passage and chapter, or book of the Bible. Much better to learn the book first and know what the passages and then verse is about, than to learn the verse as though it stands alone. Especially when a verse is used in order to try to win a point in a discussion, forcing the verse to fit the preconceived notion of the quoter of the verse.

 

Edited May 29, 2017 by Neighbor

[gdemoss]

Good Morning Neighbor!

I agree with you in that the easiest way to pervert the bible is to read it per verse (perverse).

However, Jesus himself taught us to do it.

Mat 4:5¶Then the devil taketh him up into the holy city, and setteth him on a pinnacle of the temple,

Mat 4:6 And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.

Mat 4:7¶Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.

Mat 4:8¶Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;

Mat 4:9 And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.

Mat 4:10¶Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

Mat 4:11¶Then the devil leaveth him, and, behold, angels came and ministered unto him.

Paul also did alot of cut and paste in his teaching using single verses.

It is all about rightly dividing the word of God.  Keep the faith and fight a good fight friend!

 

[daughterofGrace]

Good topic, neighbor.  Thanks for starting a conversation about it.

Here's a rule of thumb I follow:

If a verse standing alone means the same as it does in context, then it's okay to take it out of context and use it on its own.  A very obvious example is that of John 3:16 -- "For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son that whosoever believes in him will have eternal life."  That verse is taken out of context all the time and used on its own, but that's okay because it means just what it says in context as well as out.  

However, if someone takes a verse out of context and changes its meaning in doing so, then that is a bogus use of Scripture.  One of the most common examples is the verse that says, "Judge not, lest ye be judged" (Matt. 7:1).  People take that verse out of context and misuse it all the time.  It's only in context that it can be properly understood.

 

[Neighbor]

 Interesting point gdemoss, very interesting.  

I think it may then be that  if the recipient, the hearer, is  knowledgable, as Satan is, then a sentence quoted as a hightlight may be  most effective, as it will bring to mind the entirety of the word of God to bear it witness. 

I m not as knowledgeable as Satan. I can be mislead by the quoter of isolated verses when they accompany their own "Surely God has not said"('s)....

Edited May 29, 2017 by Neighbor

[Neighbor]

4 minutes ago, daughterofGrace said:

Good topic, neighbor.  Thanks for starting a conversation about it.

Here's a rule of thumb I follow:

If a verse standing alone means the same as it does in context, then it's okay to take it out of context and use it on its own.  A very obvious example is that of John 3:16 -- "For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son that whosoever believes in him will have eternal life."  That verse is taken out of context all the time and used on its own, but that's okay because it means just what it says in context as well as out.  

However, if someone takes a verse out of context and changes its meaning in doing so, then that is a bogus use of Scripture.  One of the most common examples is the verse that says, "Judge not, lest ye be judged" (Matt. 7:1).  People take that verse out of context and misuse it all the time.  It's only in context that it can be properly understood.

 

Thanks for the great example! ( and rule)

Edited May 29, 2017 by Neighbor

[Neighbor]

While I might derail my own thread I do want to add some of my interest, and concern, expand it a bit, I guess. 

I do marvel absolutely marvel at some kids, really young kids that learn the Bible passages and books, they do learn verses, but in context through AWANA programs. They become very bright lights, beacons of truth for a darkened world.

 I do believe there is a day fast coming upon us when our Bible will be  not only an offense but a crime. That it will then  become hard to  go to the Bible and find reference to context.

On that day  as it closes in it will be hard to then go figure the meaning of many a verse as it has been divided out by man. It will also become a weapon against the saints in Christ for they will be used, sounding Biblical, but be deception, and even convicting words to juries against the Saints.

But that said my main point for this discussion remains,  how many  "verses can stand alone? Also not be used deceptively- None few many?

Edited May 29, 2017 by Neighbor

[gdemoss]

33 minutes ago, Neighbor said:

 Interesting point gdemoss, very interesting.  

I think it may then be that  if the recipient, the hearer, is  knowledgable, as Satan is, then a sentence quoted as a hightlight may be  most effective, as it will bring to mind the entirety of the word of God to bear it witness. 

I m not as knowledgeable as Satan. I can be mislead by the quoter of isolated verses when they accompany their own "Surely God has not said"('s)....

Yes!  The example I provided shows both sides.  Satan using a single verse out of context with a wrong application and Jesus showing him his error using single verses taken out of context but used appropriately to defend against error.

[bryan]

2 hours ago, Neighbor said:

Often enough a verse gets utilized to sell an idea that may be totally opposite of it's meaning when in fuller context of God's word to us.

The more I study scripture, the more I recognize this happening.   We've seen it historically when scripture was used by Christians to persecute Galileo and many 'witches'.  More recently, we see verses used to defend all sorts of positions.  Pastors say you are damned to hell if you drink, curse, see movies such as 'Gone with the Wind', or if a woman fails to wear a veil or makes a comment in a bible study.  This divides Christian communities and makes them all look bad to non-believers.  Things such as this caused me to leave the Catholic church and avoid organized religion for more than a decade.  Today, I see the same happening in our community and Christians pick specific topics, use select verses to support their topic, and it's frequently accepted without review or discernment.

[notsolostsoul]

2 hours ago, Neighbor said:

What verses can stand alone?

To stand alone without further explanation, without some clarifying context? Are there any?  Few?  Some? Many? All?

I ask  in order to open up a conversation about how  short bursts of Bible get utilized to sell a point. Yes sell. The point often enough does not have all that much that is Biblical in it as it has more a cause of the day  behind it's use. It becomes a slogan, or a mere jingle.

If the Bible is  a written record revealing of Jesus  and the one covenant of God with His creation, written by men over thousands of years, as inspired by God, and if God did not provide  chapters and verses, but men added them for their convenience in study, has the process of easing study by breaking out God's message  into chapters, and passages, and individual lines of verse,  often robbed the students of the whole point of the individual phrase made into verse?

 

Seems to me by the verse, that so called study aid, the Bible is dumbed down much like what  is like today's secular tweets. And is not much more useful either when quoted to make any significant point without reckoning it's full context and historic setting. Often enough a verse gets utilized to sell an idea that may be totally opposite of it's meaning when in fuller context of God's word to us.

The rote learning of verses may be a discipline, but I think it  is not great practice, if it not  at least encapsulated by it's full  passage and chapter, or book of the Bible. Much better to learn the book first and know what the passages and then verse is about, than to learn the verse as though it stands alone. Especially when a verse is used in order to try to win a point in a discussion, forcing the verse to fit the preconceived notion of the quoter of the verse.

 

Thank you Neighbor.

Great thread. I think some don't fully understand the meaning of the word context nor when to use it. So when taking parts of scripture they only get parts of the intended message.

Daughterofgrace, great examples of how to discern.

2 hours ago, daughterofGrace said:

Good topic, neighbor.  Thanks for starting a conversation about it.

Here's a rule of thumb I follow:

If a verse standing alone means the same as it does in context, then it's okay to take it out of context and use it on its own.  A very obvious example is that of John 3:16 -- "For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son that whosoever believes in him will have eternal life."  That verse is taken out of context all the time and used on its own, but that's okay because it means just what it says in context as well as out.  

However, if someone takes a verse out of context and changes its meaning in doing so, then that is a bogus use of Scripture.  One of the most common examples is the verse that says, "Judge not, lest ye be judged" (Matt. 7:1).  People take that verse out of context and misuse it all the time.  It's only in context that it can be properly understood.

 

Very informative thread.

Thank you!

[notsolostsoul]

2 hours ago, Neighbor said:

I do believe there is a day fast coming upon us when our Bible will be  not only an offense but a crime. That it will then  become hard to  go to the Bible and find reference to context.

On that day  as it closes in it will be hard to then go figure the meaning of many a verse as it has been divided out by man. It will also become a weapon against the saints in Christ for they will be used, sounding Biblical, but be deception, and even convicting words to juries against the Saints.

This has happened in the past, and some in places now, so it can be expected in the future. Devil's persecution works hard and constantly. 

This is where the responsibility of higher calling comes in. We are to make ourselves the living reference of God's Word. We are suppose to study, understand and become God's Word. If we can do this, The Holy Trinity can easily use us to deliver God's Teachings to the youth in the future. We all( present and future Christians), already possess the Spirit within us. We only need that recognizable Spirit to be sparked by God. He can teach in and through us from this point on.

Quote

2 hours ago, Neighbor said:

But that said my main point for this discussion remains,  how many  "verses can stand alone? Also not be used deceptively- None few many?

 

Devil knows scripture and knows sin in man. Therefore it is all at risk of being misused.

Knowing the difference, is knowing God through the Spirit. The Relationship must be strong and true.