criterion for ministry

[Neighbor]

Further:

It is so easy to whip up ferment, anger, hate even, and drive that whipped up hate toward physical action in others that then go about to destroy, because of the ease of communication today. Why everyone can reach into all the world with hatred in heart to share with all that will hear of it. Some of whom will join in it and even go so nutsy as to  act upon it.

Some will shoot US senators, some will drive cars into total strangers. It is nuts for sure, depravity running amuck, so much so that action is necessary. Preplanned action  more than scared and scattering reactions are the order of the day.

Help your own local body of Christ no matter how large or small to face the attack that is here today, the 140 character assault of the thumbs banging out messages without subtlety, without depth, or nuance, just hate seeking company and encouragement within someone in a mob. 

Even in the time of the signs there is hope that is certain. The hope of the gospel of Jesus. Do not give  up in despair, instead toughen up in  the grace and mercy of Jesus going into all the world with His gospel so that many may be presented before God as mature  in understanding of our Lord Jesus. Find that good service that God wills of each of us that are His children, and stand the post mature in study and training as good soldiers in Christ Jesus' sevice.

Edited June 23, 2017 by Neighbor

[Swords99]

26 minutes ago, Neighbor said:

Interesting use of the term secular business. The model of today's successful modern business is not the model of  Jesus' church for this time. With a CEO  COO CFO and so on. But it is the common practice of many a church to model itself after the model of successful business today.

The local body that God has called me to does not have a CEO at all. It has,  in our case nine  elders at this time each with equal voting power. They must reach unity of purpose on each  area of spiritual guidance  for the local body. Deacons are servants heading particular goals of the ministry. They serve under and at the pleasure of the Elders. Deaconesses the same.

The pressure to  be above reproach  under the present day conditions of society has brought about the stringent scrutiny that includes  background checks on  even volunteers. It may be a sign of the times, or as one ministry puts it the "Time Of The Signs".

The pressure is okay, it is a challenge to be met in a society that has almost no regard for integrity of Christian church. It is also  a time of many wolves in sheep's clothing. Separating and keeping out the wolves out  away from the fold, protecting the sheep, and especially the young,  the babies, plus the widows and orphans, is of paramount concern of our elders, requiring much effort. It cannot and is not to be a casual concern today.Elders lead and need support of the whole body of Christ as the local church. So all may be better served when each member and attendee lend support to security more than  lament and contention regarding that security need. 

Security need is not something to be lamented as much as it is something to face up to and be thorough in response to the challenge.

By comparison not anyone coming in off the street and sitting to hear  a worship and sermon are qualified to be members of the local body and vote on it's charter it's finances it's management. In the same way not everyoe is qualified to tend the nursery of our babies as parents gather to worship or serve as workers in ministry.

While it seems a harder world today, and maybe it is too, we are also toughened up in our vigilance because of it. And that is  I am confident a good thing, a good testimony.

Locally there is security at worship, at school, at nursery, at all missions and ministries of the church  for the church is under persecution and attack. It is real, it is something that must be addressed by the churches. The local bodies it members and attendees I think should be encouraging of all defenses that the church elder's leadership deems reasonable and desirable! 

To always be prepared to defend the gospel includes being prepared to defend the church body too. It has from the day  of Paul's pleas for the many local churches to raise money  to be taken by him to the most oppressed church body at Jerusalem, where the oppression of that local body was spiritual, and  manifested in physical, financial as well as emotional, attack upon its members.

Just as long as the church doesn't forget JESUS in all this running around to make sure only those who appear to be above reproach get all the ministry positions and the security guards are in their places in the sanctuary.

It must also be very careful not to squelch the ministry of the Holy Spirit who sometimes chooses the least desirable and it just could be that person who came in off the street.

 

[Neighbor]

1 hour ago, Swords99 said:

Just as long as the church doesn't forget JESUS in all this running around to make sure only those who appear to be above reproach get all the ministry positions and the security guards are in their places in the sanctuary.

It must also be very careful not to squelch the ministry of the Holy Spirit who sometimes chooses the least desirable and it just could be that person who came in off the street.

 

Those that "come in off the street" are all of us.

Church is not some separate entity from it's called members.  It is the corporate body that does things in an organized manner pleasing to God. The body of Christ Jesus, his church is not a place of random disorganization. Each member of the body has it's talent, it's gifts, and knowledge. Not all are suited for teaching nor pastoring  nor cooking nor cleaning nor whatever. But each may support the other members of the body in trying to do all things in a manner that brings glory to God. 

Allowing absolutely anyone to come in off the street and volunteer to take over the care of the corporate body's babies would be absolutely irresponsible. It would place a new volunteer under exceptional risk too!

It amazes me to think that some individuals want to come in and teach, just come in and teach without having to establish  their credentials, gift for teaching and talent, and faith. Such establishment is very time consuming detailed and complex. Anyone resenting that complexity and investigation may just move on down the line elsewhere far as I am concerned. I cherish my local  leadership's careful attention to the needs of the local body.

[Neighbor]

Anyone with the gifts for teaching should welcome the investigation of their credentials. It is opportunity to establish certainty  of their knowledge and blessing by God. Seems to me even my creator has stood up to investigation of his credentials. He has more than patiently explained and demonstated his credentials. Why would I think my local church body would do less with any  one claiming to be "rabbi"?

[Swords99]

5 minutes ago, Neighbor said:

Those that "come in off the street" are all of us.

Church is not some separate entity from it's called members.  It is the corporate body that does things in an organized manner pleasing to God. The body of Christ Jesus, his church is not a place of random disorganization. Each member of the body has it's talent, it's gifts, and knowledge. Not all are suited for teaching nor pastoring  nor cooking nor cleaning nor whatever. But each may support the other members of the body in trying to do all things in a manner that brings glory to God. 

Allowing absolutely anyone to come in off the street and volunteer to take over the care of the corporate body's babies would be absolutely irresponsible. It would place a new volunteer under exceptional risk too!

It amazes me to think that some individuals want to come in and teach, just come in and teach without having to establish  their credentials, gift for teaching and talent, and faith. Such establishment is very time consuming detailed and complex. Anyone resenting that complexity and investigation may just move on down the line elsewhere far as I am concerned. I cherish my local  leadership's careful attention to the needs of the local body.

I don't see Jesus in anything you write. You seem more concerned with the organization of the church.  Is that your gift?

One can have 'church' in a home like they did in the NT. Where 2 or more are gathered, there's the church (Tertullian)

I never said a stranger who walks into a church should be allowed to take over. What I said was the Holy Spirit uses all kinds of people. Even those who are the "little toe" in the body of Christ are important and needed.

What I love about my church is everyone is given a chance because every born again Christian has spiritual gifts. We were never meant to be a passive laity. For example,  the custodian is highly valued. If it weren't for them, the rest of the church wouldn't be able to do their work.

[enoob57]

Because of the loss of love for God amongst us and anyone could be anything because God says 'everyone doing what is right in their own eyes' -sexual screening for past behaviors is a must for today! I am thankful for our church (we all must be screened) Praise God for this! Nothing destroys the soil like immorality...  a child who's trust has been violated by one within that circle is irreparable ... God has to intervene in these circumstance miraculously for God's Word to germinate within their being! Elsewise there would be no soil for the seed to take hold... 

[Swords99]

1 hour ago, enoob57 said:

Because of the loss of love for God amongst us and anyone could be anything because God says 'everyone doing what is right in their own eyes' -sexual screening for past behaviors is a must for today! I am thankful for our church (we all must be screened) Praise God for this! Nothing destroys the soil like immorality...  a child who's trust has been violated by one within that circle is irreparable ... God has to intervene in these circumstance miraculously for God's Word to germinate within their being! Elsewise there would be no soil for the seed to take hold... 

Hi Enoob, I'm sure there are many who would feel safer in a church that screens everyone. Where the pastor has a file on every member  including fingerprints, unpaid parking tickets, mental health records of those who have had therapy, etc.

Maybe that's the way it needs to be in this 21st century.

[Neighbor]

2 hours ago, Swords99 said:

I don't see Jesus in anything you write. You seem more concerned with the organization of the church.  Is that your gift?

One can have 'church' in a home like they did in the NT. Where 2 or more are gathered, there's the church (Tertullian)

I never said a stranger who walks into a church should be allowed to take over. What I said was the Holy Spirit uses all kinds of people. Even those who are the "little toe" in the body of Christ are important and needed.

What I love about my church is everyone is given a chance because every born again Christian has spiritual gifts. We were never meant to be a passive laity. For example,  the custodian is highly valued. If it weren't for them, the rest of the church wouldn't be able to do their work.

Sarcasm does not become you. 

[Neighbor]

On 6/22/2017 at 7:53 AM, creativemechanic said:

i always wondered. Seeing as nooone is prefect but yet you still dont want anyone with any lifestyle picking up a ministry, how do you determine whos applicable and who isnt?

Back to the original topic question.  May I suggest it is  a bit of a difficult process. Of course with prayer, but prayer with thinking and with reading the Bible for it's instructions, many found within Matthew especially Matthew 18 are guiding helps.

But, at the end of it all one has to  give up some personal pride,  maybe even a lot of personal pride, and concede to a few things that may  not be especially comfortable. For iron does sharpen iron and all teaching will not feel warm and fuzzy at all times. Sometimes, just sometimes maybe those elders that have spend decades  as scholars studying the Hebrew scrolls and the Greek manuscripts in original languages do have an advantage and should be listened to  for the gifts they have to share with the local congregation.

[LadyKay]

On 6/22/2017 at 9:48 AM, Swords99 said:

In the church my wife was attending, the pastor insisted my wife have a background check and fingerprinting done before he would OK her being youth group leader.

A big part of that is that people will sue you at the drop of a hat.  People also want to know that their children are being look after by someone trustworthy. Though I always feel even people who pass background checks my just be someone who has not been caught yet. But anyway those are some reasons for church doing a background check.