JESUS IS GOD

[OneLight]

13 minutes ago, fixerupper said:

Sorry Onelight,

My first day here I saw how you tried to get under somebodies skin in the first reply to a thread someone started and that person didn't like it either.  Maybe we can discuss other issues.  I can tell that I don't want to get into this one with you. 

I will admit to being upfront and honest, something some people don't know how to handle as I don't beat around the bush, but that is no reason for anyone to not want to reply.  If you happen to look at my profile and read my replies to people, you will see how I reply to others.

[Guest shiloh357]

7 hours ago, OneLight said:

John 14:28 tells us:

You have heard Me say to you, ‘I am going away and coming back to you.’ If you loved Me, you would rejoice because I said, ‘I am going to the Father,’ for My Father is greater than I.

Where do you find that Jesus said God is greater than He is?  The Father, Son and Holy Spirit are God.  Didn't Jesus tell us in Matthew 28:18:

And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth.  Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” Amen.

Do we not read in 1 John 5:7:

For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one.

There is no need to throw anything out, but there is a need to understand what is written in order to fully understand who God really is.

 

3 hours ago, fixerupper said:

That's a good one.  You've even underlined it!  This is a great example of outrite denial, fabrication too!

Onelight is pointing out something that is very important, doctrinally.   In John 14:28  Jesus is declaring that for the purposes of redemption, the Father is greater than the Son.   And that is speaking to their role in the plan of redemption at that time.   Jesus was doing the will of the Father in everything He did and said. 

That has nothing to do with Jesus' deity.  Jesus submitted to the authority of the Father, making the Father greater in authority, but not greater in terms of deity.  

We have several places where the deity of Jesus is proclaimed, not only by Jesus, but by the totality of the witness of Scripture.  To deny the deity of Jesus is to proclaim God a liar.

[Your closest friendnt]

3 hours ago, angels4u said:

Amen Shiloh...this needs to be exposed as Your closest friendnt  is teaching a false gospel by denying that Jesus is God.

Praying nobody will be deceived by this teaching..

I am not holding grudges against no one. 

And I am not asking anyone to give a truth statement about me.

JESUS teach us something that in the testimony of two wittnedes the truth is established. 

You have met the criteria, you and someone else are the witnesses against me, and you sound so secure in your belief about me, that even if the Holy Spirit which is invisible but you can hear his voice try to help you in reconsidering the unfounded statements about me, you will not listen, you want the Holy Spirit to affirm you, but the Holy Spirit can not do that because your statement is not truth, it is what they call a false witness. 

But I have a better witness who can testify on my behalf, and my witness is JESUS CHRIST, and the Holy Spirit, because the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Truth. 

You did not read my post correctly and that's why you post things that I said that I never said. 

Saying "Amen" to someone else statements is the same as if you have posted those things about me. 

I let you know that I am not happy about that, and I have to say it in my post so you can notice that you were wrong and not to do it again, because it is not truth, and it is not ethical by any standards , not even Christian. 

  

[Your closest friendnt]

7 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said:

This is not the Gospel that gives life.

Ti believe That Jesus was from God, and he died for the forgiveness of our sins, that's is more than enough.

That's puts the believer under the blood.

JESUS CHRIST is the judge of all, and he will never condemn someone to Hell who is under the blood. 

To say that Jesus was the seed of another man, by saying he was a good man, and he died for a cause, just like Socrates, that's condemnation. 

You are not clear when you say "Jesus is God", 

One place that God or the Holy Spirit has never been is in the Hades. And it will remain like that forever. 

For Jesus go to Hades means that he was a man in the likenesses of Adam. 

The Devil was waiting to take Jesus , the man Jesus to Hades.

 God can not die, Jesus also took the risk to die Spiritually. 

If Jesus had died Spiritually when he died on the Cross, he will never be Resurrected. 

And God will still be God. 

 

For your reference this is my post. And this is Shiloh's reply. 

7 hours ago, shiloh357 said:

No, that is not enough.   You have to believe what the Bible says about who Jesus is.  The Bible makes it clear that Jesus is God.   If you are not believing in Jesus who is as both God and man, you are not believing in the true Jesus.  Your faith is in a different Jesus, a Jesus of your own invention.  And that Jesus will not save you.  Any other Jesus than Jesus who is the God/man, is an idol.

Oh I am very clear when I say that Jesus is God.   I am clear enough that you reject it.

That is false teaching.   Jesus never went to Hell, and the devil never took him there.   You are promoting a false gospel.

 

Jesus never died spiritually.

Jesus' resurrection is proof that God the Father was satisfied with Jesus' sacrifice.  And it is proof that Jesus did not die spiritually.   As God Jesus cannot die spiritually.

 

If you care I have all the scriptures I had considered before I wrote the post

 And I can point out all the false mispresentations and unbiblica statements of Siloh in this post . 

[Guest shiloh357]

2 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said:

 

If you care I have all the scriptures I had considered before I wrote the post

 And I can point out all the false mispresentations and unbiblica statements of Siloh in this post . 

Go for it.  Do it.

[angels4u]

5 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said:

I am not holding grudges against no one. 

And I am not asking anyone to give a truth statement about me.

JESUS teach us something that in the testimony of two wittnedes the truth is established. 

You have met the criteria, you and someone else are the witnesses against me, and you sound so secure in your belief about me, that even if the Holy Spirit which is invisible but you can hear his voice try to help you in reconsidering the unfounded statements about me, you will not listen, you want the Holy Spirit to affirm you, but the Holy Spirit can not do that because your statement is not truth, it is what they call a false witness. 

But I have a better witness who can testify on my behalf, and my witness is JESUS CHRIST, and the Holy Spirit, because the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Truth. 

You did not read my post correctly and that's why you post things that I said that I never said. 

Saying "Amen" to someone else statements is the same as if you have posted those things about me. 

I let you know that I am not happy about that, and I have to say it in my post so you can notice that you were wrong and not to do it again, because it is not truth, and it is not ethical by any standards , not even Christian. 

  

I was very sad to have to write what I wrote but we talked about the same thing more than ones over the years and by what I read you still believe what you did years ago, did you read the Statement of Worthy?

This website believes that Jesus IS God and in the Trininty.

I'm very saddened that you cannot see this true as I dearly love you but I strongly believe that what you believe is wrong.

You are standing up for what you believe so why can't I?

 I do care for you and pray that the Holt Spirit will open your eyes for who Jesus really is.

 I don't have any hard feelings toward you 

 

[fixerupper]

6 hours ago, shiloh357 said:

 

Onelight is pointing out something that is very important, doctrinally.   In John 14:28  Jesus is declaring that for the purposes of redemption, the Father is greater than the Son.   And that is speaking to their role in the plan of redemption at that time.   Jesus was doing the will of the Father in everything He did and said. 

That has nothing to do with Jesus' deity.  Jesus submitted to the authority of the Father, making the Father greater in authority, but not greater in terms of deity.  

We have several places where the deity of Jesus is proclaimed, not only by Jesus, but by the totality of the witness of Scripture.  To deny the deity of Jesus is to proclaim God a liar.

When Jesus said the father is greater IN jOHN 14:28, trinitarians always deny his words.  Deity has all to do with authority!  Deity is 'divine nature'. Trinitarians tell is that the divine nature of Jesus is that he is equal with the Father.  Here you are telling me that the Faher is Greater than Jesus in authority but NOT deity???

Deity is another word that came from Catholic doctrine.  Deity is the divinity of Christ.  When a person says they believe in the deity of Christ, they are saying that Jesus is the eternal and unchangeable God, the second person of the holy Trinity.  So for you to say the Father is greater in authority, which he certainly is, but NOT greater in terms of deity is a contradiction.

Deity...

The collection of attributes which make up the nature of a god; divinity; godhead; as, the deity of the Supreme Being is seen in his works.

In trinitarianism you can't separate deity from trinity.  

Edited June 26, 2017 by fixerupper

[Jaydog1976]

Scripture, as others have said, clearly shows that Jesus was and is God. Here are two passages of scripture and to deny the fact that these two references are about God and about Jesus Christ is to reject what scripture teaches plain and simple. Take Genesis 1:1 "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth." for example. This is OT so we know that this is referring to God. Jesus hasn't been hinted to as of yet (not until Genesis 3:15). So the assumption made is that God himself created the heavens and the earth. Well now go over to Colossians 1:16, but lets start with vs 15, "The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him." This verse in Colossians is speaking about Jesus Christ as plain as day. So the question is if God created the heavens and the earth and Jesus Christ also created the heavens and the earth would Jesus have to be God? To say that Jesus is only man would mean that Jesus couldn't have created anything as Colossians 1:16 states. Man never created anything out of nothing. Only God can do that. Thus Jesus either has to be God as the Bible claims or Jesus was only man that was created by God since God created man. 

How about another verse comparison this one is my favorite since again it proves that Jesus was God. What I love about scripture is that it doesn't contradict itself and you have to use scripture and compare with scripture to learn the truths about what it says. What I find (especially when dealing with JW's, Mormons and the like) is that people like to take one verse and create a whole doctrine from it. You cannot do this. Even the Bereans in Acts 17:11 understood this and it says that they "Now the Berean Jews were of more noble character than those in Thessalonica, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true." What I like about this passage is they examined the scriptures. It doesn't mean they just skimmed over it or opened their bibles and read the first thing their pointing finger landed on. It was a diligent seeking the scriptures out to see what Paul was saying was true. We must do the same. So here is my next comparison. Take a look at Psalm 102:25-27 "In the beginning you laid the foundations of the earth, and the heavens are the work of your hands. They will perish, but you remain; they will all wear out like a garment. Like clothing you will change them     and they will be discarded. But you remain the same, and your years will never end." The psalmist here is talking about God himself. Now lets look at Hebrews 1:10-12, "In the beginning, Lord, you laid the foundations of the earth, and the heavens are the work of your hands. They will perish, but you remain; they will all wear out like a garment. You will roll them up like a robe; like a garment they will be changed. But you remain the same, and your years will never end.” Hebrews chapter 1 begins an immediate focus on Jesus Christ and this is what is spoken about Jesus. So again the question has to be asked, "If Psalm 102 is speaking about God Himself and Hebrews uses the same passage to refer to Jesus Christ then is Jesus Christ God or is he just a man?" If you say that Jesus is God then you have to agree that scripture is again true to it's word. If you say that Jesus was just a man then the problem is how can a man lay the foundations of the earth? What man do you and I know can even come close to creating the heavens? None that I am aware of. 

This brings me to the most important point we have to accept that Jesus was God because no man is perfect enough to take our sins away. It had to take a perfect, sinless sacrifice. The only one that we know that is perfect and sinless is God. Thus if we accept that Jesus is God this makes sense because Jesus was perfect and sinless. Why? Because he is God. If you say that Jesus is only man then you are saying that any man if they are good enough can save people from their sins. It boils down to this, to say that Jesus was only man, is to say that he had had the capability of sinning and therefore how do I know that he didn't? If he sinned even at one moment, or could sin, then my salvation may or may not be valid. But knowing that Jesus is God and that he could not sin, sin sinning is against His nature, then the sacrifice was perfect and I am confident that my salvation is sure. 

So I will say this to say that Jesus is not God is to say that Jesus was a created being and that the sacrifice made may or may not be efficient for our salvation. This is false teaching (the JW's, Mormons, etc following along this train of thought) and should be not be part of the church. This is my final thought, we either use scripture as a whole and compare scripture to scripture or we don't and come away with false teachings and doctrines that lead people astray. My belief is that scripture teaches that Jesus is God plain and simple and to deny this fact could mean that the salvation you are trusting in may or may not be valid. 

[Jaydog1976]

39 minutes ago, fixerupper said:

When Jesus said the father is greater IN jOHN 14:28, trinitarians always deny his words.  Deity has all to do with authority!  Deity is 'divine nature'. Trinitarians tell is that the divine nature of Jesus is that he is equal with the Father.  Here you are telling me that the Faher is Greater than Jesus in authority but NOT deity???

Deity is another word that came from Catholic doctrine.  Deity is the divinity of Christ.  When a person says they believe in the deity of Christ, they are saying that Jesus is the eternal and unchangeable God, the second person of the holy Trinity.  So for you to say the Father is greater in authority, which he certainly is, but NOT greater in terms of deity is a contradiction.

Deity...

The collection of attributes which make up the nature of a god; divinity; godhead; as, the deity of the Supreme Being is seen in his works.

In trinitarianism you can't separate deity from trinity.  

Fixerupper you are only using one verse to try and prove that Jesus is not God. This is not a valid argument because you are not comparing scripture with scriptures. I did write a response just a few minutes ago that you might want to take a gander at. I would love to have you explain to me how psalm 102:25-27 and Hebrews 1:10-12 show the Jesus is either God or he is just a man? God created the heavens and the earth yet it is said the same thing about Jesus Christ? If you say that Jesus Christi isn't God then how can a man create the universe? Do you know of any human that has created anything out of nothing? And if you say that Jesus is God then your whole argument that you are somehow trying to make is completely in jeopardy and you would have to admit that your opinion is wrong. 

[fixerupper]

16 minutes ago, Jaydog1976 said:

Fixerupper you are only using one verse to try and prove that Jesus is not God. This is not a valid argument because you are not comparing scripture with scriptures. I did write a response just a few minutes ago that you might want to take a gander at. I would love to have you explain to me how psalm 102:25-27 and Hebrews 1:10-12 show the Jesus is either God or he is just a man? God created the heavens and the earth yet it is said the same thing about Jesus Christ? If you say that Jesus Christi isn't God then how can a man create the universe? Do you know of any human that has created anything out of nothing? And if you say that Jesus is God then your whole argument that you are somehow trying to make is completely in jeopardy and you would have to admit that your opinion is wrong. 

No.  I'm using that verse to say what Jesus said.  That God is greater!  And I am comparing scripture with scripture.  I never said jesus WASN'T God, I'm saying Jesus isn't fully God as is taught in Trinitarianism.

Psalm 102:25 is talking about God the Father, not Jesus Christ.  Hebrews 1:10-12 isn't saying Jesus is fully God, only that he took part in the creation process just like the angels did.

Try again!

Edited June 26, 2017 by fixerupper