JESUS IS GOD

[Jaydog1976]

7 minutes ago, fixerupper said:

No.  I'm using that verse to say what Jesus said.  That God is greater!  And I am comparing scripture with scripture.  I never said jesus WASN'T God, I'm saying jesus isn't fully God as is taught in Trinitarianism.

Psalm 102:25 is talking about God the Father, not Jesus Christ.  Hebrews 1:10-12 isn't saying Jesus is fully God, only that he took part in the creation process just like the angels did.

Try again!

fixerupper you have decided for yourself what Jesus to believe in. You are reading the scriptures to fit your own viewpoint. I don't have to try anything. Either Jesus isn't God or he is. There isn't an in between state. So can I ask you this, Who created the heavens and the earth in Genesis 1:1?

Oh and to remind you really quick that Hebrews chapter 1 talks only about Jesus Christ and no one else. God says this about Jesus Christ and I will put the verse here for the benefit of those wanting to know what it says,  

Hebrews 1:10-12

10 He also says,

“In the beginning, Lord, you laid the foundations of the earth,
    and the heavens are the work of your hands.
11 They will perish, but you remain;
    they will all wear out like a garment.
12 You will roll them up like a robe;
    like a garment they will be changed.
But you remain the same,
    and your years will never end.”

Why would God call Jesus Christ, Lord, if Jesus Christ isn't God? And you cannot argue that the word He at the beginning of the verse does not refer to God himself since he refers to verse 5. Can you answer that question as well? 

 

[Guest shiloh357]

1 hour ago, fixerupper said:

When Jesus said the father is greater IN jOHN 14:28, trinitarians always deny his words.

Not denying His words at all.   Denying your mishandling of His words.

 

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Deity has all to do with authority!  Deity is 'divine nature'. Trinitarians tell is that the divine nature of Jesus is that he is equal with the Father.  Here you are telling me that the Faher is Greater than Jesus in authority but NOT deity???

What you're not really grasping is the interplay between Jesus' humanity and His deity.  Jesus was fully God, but according to Paul in Phil. 2: 5-11, Jesus did not exploit His deity to His own advantage.  Instead, Jesus temporarily divested Himself of divine prerogatives.  Jesus was fully God, but Jesus submitted Himself to the authority of the Father, in His humanity while on earth.  Jesus clearly stated that He did and spoke as instructed by the Father. 

So, Jesus was fully God, but did not take advantage of the privileges and prerogatives of deity for the purpose of fulfilling God's plan of redemption.  
 

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Deity is another word that came from Catholic doctrine.  

Wrong.  Jesus' deity comes from the Bible.   Those who reject the deity of Jesus reject the authority of God's word, call God a liar and as such, have blasphemed God through their assault on God's integrity.

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Deity is the divinity of Christ.  When a person says they believe in the deity of Christ, they are saying that Jesus is the eternal and unchangeable God, the second person of the holy Trinity.  So for you to say the Father is greater in authority, which he certainly is, but NOT greater in terms of deity is a contradiction.

It's not a contradiction for those who are Holy Spirit filled, biblically literate, authentic followers of Christ.   It is not a contradiction when you realize that in His humanity, the Father IS greater than Jesus, even if Jesus is co-equal with the Father in Deity. 

 

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In trinitarianism you can't separate deity from trinity.  

Yes, that is true and the doctrine of the Trinity is biblical, as well.

[Swords99]

27 minutes ago, fixerupper said:

No.  I'm using that verse to say what Jesus said.  That God is greater!  And I am comparing scripture with scripture.  I never said jesus WASN'T God, I'm saying Jesus isn't fully God as is taught in Trinitarianism.

Psalm 102:25 is talking about God the Father, not Jesus Christ.  Hebrews 1:10-12 isn't saying Jesus is fully God, only that he took part in the creation process just like the angels did.

Try again!

Fixerupper, I mean no disrespect, but you said on another thread which may have been deleted and please correct me if I'm wrong, that you have a low opinion of Christians and destroyed all your bibles.

How is it that you now presume to teach Christians?

[Guest shiloh357]

44 minutes ago, fixerupper said:

No.  I'm using that verse to say what Jesus said.  That God is greater!  And I am comparing scripture with scripture.  I never said jesus WASN'T God, I'm saying Jesus isn't fully God as is taught in Trinitarianism.

Psalm 102:25 is talking about God the Father, not Jesus Christ.  Hebrews 1:10-12 isn't saying Jesus is fully God, only that he took part in the creation process just like the angels did.

Try again!

How is one only partly God?  And what is the biblical support for saying that Jesus is partially God?

[Swords99]

20 minutes ago, Yowm said:

That's because all God's are equal, but some Gods are more equal than other's...according to fixerupper's posts yesterday.

Sounds similar to what the JWs now believe about Jesus. He is a god, but separate and inferior to God the Father. Doesn't this make one polytheistic since one definition of it is : belief in the existence of more than one god.

[fixerupper]

1 hour ago, Jaydog1976 said:

fixerupper you have decided for yourself what Jesus to believe in. You are reading the scriptures to fit your own viewpoint. I don't have to try anything. Either Jesus isn't God or he is. There isn't an in between state. So can I ask you this, Who created the heavens and the earth in Genesis 1:1?

Oh and to remind you really quick that Hebrews chapter 1 talks only about Jesus Christ and no one else. God says this about Jesus Christ and I will put the verse here for the benefit of those wanting to know what it says,  

Hebrews 1:10-12

10 He also says,

“In the beginning, Lord, you laid the foundations of the earth,
    and the heavens are the work of your hands.
11 They will perish, but you remain;
    they will all wear out like a garment.
12 You will roll them up like a robe;
    like a garment they will be changed.
But you remain the same,
    and your years will never end.”

Why would God call Jesus Christ, Lord, if Jesus Christ isn't God? And you cannot argue that the word He at the beginning of the verse does not refer to God himself since he refers to verse 5. Can you answer that question as well? 

 

You keep going off insinuating that I'm saying Jesus isn't God!  I keep saying Jesus is God, only that the Father is greater!  The passage you've quoted in no way implies that Jesus and the Father are co-equal.

Edited June 26, 2017 by fixerupper

[Guest shiloh357]

53 minutes ago, Yowm said:

That's because all God's are equal, but some Gods are more equal than other's...according to fixerupper's posts yesterday.

Wha....???  what thread?

[fixerupper]

33 minutes ago, Yowm said:

Sure does.

http://www.biblicalunitarian.com/articles/god/47-reasons-why-our-heavenly-father-has-no-equals-or-co-equals

Jesus himself shows he's subordinate to the Father...

Jesus called the Father “my God” both before and after his resurrection.  Jesus told  told Mary Magdalene to go to the brothers and tell them, “I ascend to my Father and your Father, and my God and your God”  (John 20:17).  Thus Jesus’ God is the same God as our God, the Father.  Jesus said, “My Father is greater than I” (John 14:28).  In opposition to the Trinity which says that the Father and the Son are “co-equal.” It was God who made Jesus “Lord.”  Acts 2:36 says:  “God has made this Jesus…both Lord and Christ.”  “Lord” is not the same as “God.” In the future, the Son will be subject to the Father.  1 Cor. 15:28 says: “When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him [God] who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.” Jesus recognized that the Father was the only true God.  In prayer, he said to God “…that they might know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent” (John 17:3).  Jesus was “sanctified” by God.  John 10:36 says:  “Do you say of him whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, ‘You are blaspheming’ because I said ‘I am the son of God’”? (NASB).  Jesus was sanctified by God, but God does not need to be sanctified.  Jesus did not consider himself equal with the Father.  In John 5:19, he said, “The Son can do nothing by himself; he can only do what he sees his Father doing” (cp. v. 30 and John 8:28 and 12:49).  1 Corinthians 3:23 makes it clear that God is greater than Christ, just as Christ is greater than we are:  “…and you belong to Christ; and Christ belongs to God”  The Bible teaches:  “Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God” (1 Cor 11:3).  It is obvious from this verse and 1 Cor. 3:23, and the other verses above that the Trinitarian formula that Christ and God are “co-equal” is not biblical. 

It was God who did miracles and wonders through Christ.  (Matt. 9:8; Acts 2:22; 10:38).  If Christ were God, the Bible would simply say that Christ did the miracles himself without making reference to God.  The fact that it was God supplying the power for the miracles shows that God is greater than Christ.

http://www.biblicalunitarian.com/articles/god/47-reasons-why-our-heavenly-father-has-no-equals-or-co-equals

Edited June 26, 2017 by fixerupper

[Jaydog1976]

16 minutes ago, fixerupper said:

You keep going off insinuating that I'm saying Jesus isn't God!  I keep saying Jesus is God, only that the Father is greater!  The passage you've quoted in no way implies that Jesus and the Father are co-equal.

fixerupper I am not insinuating anything. The verses I quoted actually do imply that Jesus and God the Father are one in the same. It's ok that you don't see it. Lot's of people don't see it either because they choose not to. The JW's and mormons do the same thing. I am going to place these final thoughts out there. First if Jesus is not fully God then what part of God does He not have? Can you show me from scripture what attributes of God Jesus does not possess? I would say that you will have a hard time finding anything. Second if Jesus was not fully God as you claim then how can I trust in what He did on the cross. Was there a part where he maybe sinned at some point because of the fact that He isn't God. I mean if God cannot sin did Jesus set this part of his Godhood aside? If so did He sin and thus make his death meaningless? See fixerupper when you remove the fact that Jesus is fully and 100% God our salvation could be a sham and Jesus Christ would be nothing more than a good man that did good things.

Fixerupper I have this feeling that instead of really looking at the scriptures as they are written and applied you have a quick defense set up to deny something that you really can't deny. Those verses, and there are so many more, show that Jesus is fully God and that God himself indicates this. Since I have read some of your other responses and how they are more attacking than debating I will end my discussion here. 

[Guest shiloh357]

21 hours ago, fixerupper said:

So why is this?  That alone debunks trinitarianism.  IF Jesus, the Holy Spirit, and God the Father are all EQUAL AND THE SAME PERSON, then the Holy Spirit would NOT be ommitted from the desciption of the Throne of God. 

 

This demonstrates that you do not understand the Doctrine of the Trinity.  You are condemning a doctrine you cannot correctly frame.   The doctrine does not state that Jesus, the Holy Spirit and God the Father are the same person.   It states that they are three distinct Persons. 

The reason the Holy Spirit is not there in those verses around the throne is because He is on earth, not in Heaven. 

It would be more helpful if you actually studied and understood the doctrine you are trying to criticize.