Jehovahs Witnesses

[guestman]

On 7/22/2017 at 4:14 PM, Sojourner414 said:

You lump every single church together into one, forgetting that each is different. You also forget that there are churches doing His will as well, but I suppose those are easy for you to ignore, since you're simply trying to find things to bolster your side of the argument.

 

 

1) You forget that Islam had taken control of the "Holy Lands" and were making pilgrimages impossible for anyone without risking their lives. The Crusades were necessary in order to protect those travelers from being set upon. It's sad that those in charge of the later ones used them to take land and undue advantage, but nevertheless, they were needed.

 

The RCC also placed the "Virgin Mary" as Co-Redemptrix; I do not consider them as a "church" of God,. But there are Catholics out there who trust in Jesus Christ and not Mary. In any event, you cannot place what the RCC has done on the Lord.

If they were of Jesus Christ, it would have been very clear what Jesus meant them to do, as the Lord is not the author of confusion.
 

If Hitler was that evil (and he was!), then what business did the Jehovah's Witnesses have simply standing there and not opposing that evil? And make no mistake: Hitler was nobody's Christian: he embraced the philosophy of anti-Christian philosopher Friedrich Nietzsche. whose influence shows in Hitler’s private remarks on religion. He described Christianity as an “absurdity,” “an invention of sick brains,” and so forth.

 

Jesus established only "one faith" that pleases Jehovah God.(Eph 4:5) Are any of 41,000 different denominations and sects of Christendom ' calling on the name of Jehovah '  ?(Rom 10:13) Are any of the churches of Christendom going from "house to house" (Matt 10:11-13; Acts 5:42; 20:20), making disciples of people of all the nations by teaching them through a home Bible study all that Jesus taught concerning "the good news of the Kingdom"? (Matt 24:14)

Are the churches of Christendom "no part of the world" (John 17:14), having no involvement in the political arena, being politically neutral or removing such false religious doctrines as the "Holy Trinity", hellfire, immortality of the soul, purgatory, calling each other "brothers" and not by some religious title such as Reverend, Monsignor, Bishop, Cardinal, etc. ?(Matt 23:8-10)

God told the ancient nation of Israel: "You are my witnesses", declares Jehovah, "yes, my servant who I have chosen, so that you may know and have faith in me".(Isa 43:10) The apostle Paul identified that it was only through this nation (or channel) that God's laws and guidelines were provided, saying: "What, then, is the advantage of the Jew ? A great deal in every way. First of all, that they were entrusted with the sacred pronouncements of God".(Rom 3:1, 2)

Jehovah only uses one channel that he calls "my people", who take upon themselves to be called by God's name of Jehovah as the ancient nation of Israel was (Ex 19:5, 6), but proved unqualified.(Rom 10:3) The disloyal Israelites were therefore replaced with "new nation" (Isa 66:8) that would prove qualified, called "the Israel of God" (Gal 6:16) or spiritual Israel.

Jesus said to the wicked Jewish religious leaders: "Did you never read in the Scriptures (at Isa 28:16), ' The stone (the Messiah who proved to be Jesus as the primary king of God's Kingdom) that the builders rejected (the Jewish religious leaders who were to be the "supports" of the nation), this has become the chief cornerstone. This has come from Jehovah, and it is marvelous in our eyes ? This is why I say to you, the Kingdom of God will be taken from you (the disloyal nation of natural Israel) and be given to a nation producing its fruits".(Matt 21:42, 43)

And having just established that the nation of fleshly Israel was replaced as God's people with another "nation" for disloyalty, then where does this place them ? Jesus said of the nation of fleshly Israel, with physical Jerusalem as its capital: "Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the killer of the prophets and stoner of those sent to her - how often I wanted to gather your children together the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings ! But you did not want it. Look ! Your house (the temple in Jerusalem) is abandoned to you. For I say to you, you will by no means see me from now until you say (quoting from Ps 118:26), "Blessed is the one who comes in Jehovah's name !"(Matt 23:37-39)

Hence, fleshly Israel with its capital of Jerusalem was abandoned by God some 2,000 years ago and suffered almost complete annihilation at the hands of the Roman armies in 70 C.E., fulfilling Jesus words: "The days will come upon you (the nation of fleshly Israel) when your enemies will build around you a fortification of pointed stakes and will encircle you and besiege you from every side. They will dash you and your children within you to the ground, and they will not leave a stone upon a stone in you, because you did not discern the time of your being inspected".(Luke 19:43, 44)

Thus, there are no pilgrimages to the "Holy Lands", for no physical land nor physical city is holy to Jehovah God. Have you not read that "Hagar means Sinai.....and she corresponds with the Jerusalem today (literal Jerusalem), for she is in slavery with her children (or fleshly Israelites). But the Jerusalem above (or spiritual Israel) is free, and she is our mother".(Gal 4:25, 26)

The Crusades were not authorized by Jehovah God, for Jesus told his faithful followers that "by this all will know that you are my disciples - if you have love among yourselves".(John 13:35) Slaughtering others is at the opposite ends of love, for the apostle Paul wrote: "Love does not work evil to one's neighbor".(Rom 13:10)

And the apostle John wrote: "If anyone says, "I love God", and yet is hating his brother, he is a liar. For the one who does not love his brother, whom he has seen, cannot love God, whom he has not seen".(1 John 4:20) So, the Crusades were diametrically opposed to Jesus words to "have love among themselves" as well any of the wars that the political nations have created or causing any physical harm to another person.

Please tell me why the apostles, after having been taught both by example and words about humility (Matt 18:1-5), that on the night before Jesus death, they became upset and argued themselves as to who was the greatest ?(Luke 22:24) Learning to apply Bible principles take mediation, time, and lots of effort.

Apparently you have yet to this day failed to understand what Jesus meant by being "no part of the world".(John 17:14) Jehovah's Witnesses have been able to "put the pieces together" (meaning of the Greek word synimei that Jesus used with regard the Kingdom at Matt 13) as to what it means to be "no part of the world".

Can you assemble a 10,000 piece puzzle within minutes or even hours of taking the pieces out of the box ? No, for it takes time (sometimes a long time) to fit the pieces in their proper location for the picture to be the right one. Likewise, of knowing how to apply the various Bible "truths".

The churches have not changed at all in their theological doctrines and practices over the centuries, but again apparently you failed to grasp that Jehovah said that his people would gradually refine themselves from "wood" to finally "gold" (Isa 60:17), that "the path of the righteous is like the bright morning light, that grows brighter and brighter until full daylight".(Prov 4:18)

The churches are blood guilty, having been participants in all the wars of the nations, having killed each other "in the name of Christ" or just displayed a murderous attitude in following the political leaders. They have went to "bed" with the political rulers, the "kings of the earth" like a prostitute, riding on the back (along with the rest of the religions of the world) of the "scarlet-colored wild beast", the United Nations.(Rev 17:1-3)

For this prostitution, Jehovah has said: "For her (the religions of the world that includes Christendom that is called Babylon the Great [Rev 17:5], with ancient Babylon as its prototype) sins have massed clear up to heaven, and God has called her acts of injustice to mind......Yes, in her was found the blood of prophets and of holy ones and of all those who have been slaughtered on the earth".(Rev 18:5, 24)

So, Jehovah places "all those who have been slaughtered on the earth" at the feet of both the churches along with all the other religions of the world. But Jehovah's Witnesses are free of being blood guilty by not killing anyone, being "no part of the world", but rather are taught to "beat their swords into plowshares".(Micah 4:3) Can this be said of anyone else ?

[guestman]

11 hours ago, enoob57 said:

I'm perceiving that you are thinking you are of God but your mind is formed by others telling you what God's Word says instead of God's Word Itself... Lucifer is subtle!

But God's Word says

John 17:5 (KJV)

[5] And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

This the intimate prayer between The Son and The Father, One in Essence: 'glorify thou me with thine own self', revealing this relationship was before creation ever began 'before the world was'... you see satan moved from his creative role in angelic responsibility to a place of lie saying the created could be creator! You by saying 'God' is created 'JESUS' >the same blasphemy as Lucifer<  the spirit within you urging you to think this is of God... God in Genesis 1:1 declares

Genesis 1:1 (KJV)

[Ge 1:1] In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

As we follow the Genesis record we find God creates the place and then the 'Being' to dwell in it... we know by the Biblical process taught to us by God: thus angels had to be sometime after this begin Gen 1:1- because of the pattern set before us by God's Word... God finished creation of world >'place'< then created man! Thus because God reveals in day 1 His creation of heaven and earth and Jesus references this day as 'the glory which I had with thee before the world' places Him in the equality of 'In the beginning God' and that 'IS' The Biblical account according to Jesus The Creator God 'Jehovah'...

It is written

Matthew 7:21 (KJV)

[21] Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

[22] Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

[23] And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Lord, Lord -notice this is the door into heaven and Who 'IS' the door

John 14:6 (KJV)

[6] Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

[7] If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.

[8] Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.

[9] Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

[10] Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

In God's Word your words do not exist even though you say Lord, Lord...
Love, Steven

 

When Jesus offered his prayer to the Father at John 17:5, did he mean "before creation ever began" when speaking of the "world" ? No. His words to the Jewish religious leaders explains what is meant by the "world": "Woe to you, because you built the tombs of the prophets, but your forefathers killed them ! Certainly you are witnesses of the deeds of your forefather, and yet you approve of them, for they killed the prophets but you are building their tombs. That is why the wisdom of God also said: "I will send prophets and apostles to them, and they will kill and persecute some of them, so that the blood of all the prophets spilled from the founding ("founding", Greek katabole meaning "a throwing down of seed") of the world (Greek kosmos that means the world of mankind) may be charged against this generation, from the blood of Abel (as the first loyal one murdered) down to the blood of Zechariah, who was killed between the altar and the house".(Luke 11:47-51)

Hence, the "world" began when Adam and Eve had children, the starting point for the earth to be filled with mankind, and not "before creation ever began".

[enoob57]

2 hours ago, guestman said:

When Jesus offered his prayer to the Father at John 17:5, did he mean "before creation ever began" when speaking of the "world" ? No. His words to the Jewish religious leaders explains what is meant by the "world": "Woe to you, because you built the tombs of the prophets, but your forefathers killed them ! Certainly you are witnesses of the deeds of your forefather, and yet you approve of them, for they killed the prophets but you are building their tombs. That is why the wisdom of God also said: "I will send prophets and apostles to them, and they will kill and persecute some of them, so that the blood of all the prophets spilled from the founding ("founding", Greek katabole meaning "a throwing down of seed") of the world (Greek kosmos that means the world of mankind) may be charged against this generation, from the blood of Abel (as the first loyal one murdered) down to the blood of Zechariah, who was killed between the altar and the house".(Luke 11:47-51)

Hence, the "world" began when Adam and Eve had children, the starting point for the earth to be filled with mankind, and not "before creation ever began".

The Word of God speaks and those who are His listen and obey ... you are not of us! You are not of The Lord...

[guestman]

8 hours ago, enoob57 said:

The Word of God speaks and those who are His listen and obey ... you are not of us! You are not of The Lord...

By your words or conduct, you have not brought anything "to the table" that shows that "the Word of God speaks (to) us", just condemnation, like the Jews who attacked Jesus despite his words that showed him as one of Jehovah's loyal servants.(Mark 3:1-6)

And yes, Jehovah's Witnesses "are not of us" as you have said, for we do not take part in the wars of the nations (Isa 2:4; John 13:35), do not smoke cigarettes or use drugs (2 Cor 7:1), do not take blood transfusions or allow sexual immorality (Acts 15:20; Lev 17:10, 11), put out of the congregation those who are immorally unrepentant, not even eating with this one (1 Cor 5:11-13), use clean, wholesome speech (Eph 5:3-5), ' call upon the name of Jehovah '(Rom 10:13, Joel 2:32) do the assigned work of preaching "the good news of the Kingdom" to all the nations (Matt 24:14), are politically neutral in imitation of Jesus (John 17:16), are a united brotherhood world wide (John 17:11), teaching sincere individuals that the earth will become a paradise for "meek" ones as their home forever (Luke 23:43; Matt 5:5; Ps 37:11, 29).

Are you fulfilling all of these ? Are you fulfilling what Jehovah said through his prophet to Eli the high priest: "That is why the word of Jehovah the God of Israel is: "It is unthinkable, on my part, because those honoring me I will honor, but those despising me will be treated with contempt" ?(1 Sam 2:30)

Most everyone is aware that only Jehovah's Witnesses carry God's wondrous name of Jehovah on them as Jesus also does (Ex 39:30; as high priest, Jesus wears the symbolic turban that bears the inscription "Holiness belongs to Jehovah"), realizing that by doing so, we will be hated even as Jesus was when he walked the land of Israel.(John 15:18)

Hence, when we are spoken of deridingly, abused, hated for honoring Jehovah God, like both Jesus and the apostles, we rejoice "because (we have) been counted worthy to be dishonored in behalf of his (Jesus) name" who always ' did the things pleasing to Jehovah '.(John 8:29; Acts 5:41)

[guestman]

4 hours ago, Sojourner414 said:

Those that are calling on the name of Jesus Christ, (Scripture tells us "there is only one name under heaven by which we must be saved"), are of the faith that the Lord established. And yes, they are going house to house; we have a church where I live who is doing exactly that. But they are NOT basing their salvation on works as the Jehovah's Witnesses do, but upon grace (Ephesians 2:8-10)  We do works because  we are saved, not to gain it.

 

In speaking to the Jews, Peter said that "there is no salvation in anyone else, for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must get save".(Acts 4:12) Yes "under heaven that was given" which is Jesus, for he was the promised Messiah that the Hebrew Scriptures had so much spoken about as Jehovah's representative (John 7:29), but you fail in realizing that Jesus said to Satan of whom true Christians are to listen to in the final analysis, quoting from Deuteronomy 8:3: "Man must live, not on bread alone, but on every word that comes from Jehovah's mouth".(Matt 4:4)

Jesus "iced" whom we are to worship by telling Satan, quoting from Deuteronomy 6:13 and 10:20: "It is written: ' It is Jehovah your God you must worship, and it is to him alone you must render sacred service".(Matt 4:10) Jesus said succinctly: "For I have not spoken of my own initiative, but the Father who sent me has himself given me a commandment about what to say and what to speak. And I know that his commandment means everlasting life. So whatever I speak, I speak just as the Father has told me".(John 12:49, 50)

As Jehovah told the rebellious nation of Israel who did not listen to him, so do I: "As surely as I am alive,' declares the Sovereign Lord Jehovah, ' I will not respond to your inquiry' "(Eze 20:31) Hence, I will leave this topic and not return.

[brakelite]

@guestman do you realize that in defending your church's claim to be counted as the true people of God you have provided us with a very long list of things you have done for God, as if to say, "hey Jehovah, look at all we've done for you, now you owe us our rewards".

Not once did you mention anything God has done for you.  Do you realize that scripture teaches we are saved from eternal destruction only on that basis? 

Now to Christ, upon whom your salvation is reliant.

The casual reader, when reading Psalm 45:6, might take this to be simply the Psalmist's ascription of praise to God, but when we turn to the New Testament, we find that it is much more. We find that God the Father is the speaker and that He is addressing the Son, calling Him God. See Heb. 1:1- 8. This name was not given to Christ in conse­quence of some great achievement but it is His by right of inheritance. Speaking of the power and greatness of Christ, the writer to the Hebrews says that He is made so much better than the angels, because “He hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.” Heb. 1:4. A son always rightfully takes the name of the father; and Christ, as “the only begotten Son of God,” has rightfully the same name. A son, also, is, to a greater or less de­gree, a reproduction of the father; he has to some extent the features and personal characteristics of his father; not perfectly, because there is no perfect reproduction among mankind. But there is no im­perfection in God, or in any of His works, and so Christ is the “express image” of the Father’s per­son. Heb. 1:3. As the Son of the self - existent God, He has by nature all the attributes of Deity.

But the point is that Christ is a begotten Son and not a created subject. He has by inheritance a more excellent name than the angels. He is “a Son over His own house.” Heb. 1:4; 3:6. And since He is the only-begotten Son of God, He is of the very substance and nature of God, and possesses by birth all the attributes of God; for the Father was pleased that His Son should be the express image of His person, the brightness of His glory, and filled with all the fullness of the Godhead. So He has “life in Himself;” He possesses immortality in His own right, and can confer immortality on others. Life inheres in Him, so that it cannot be taken from Him; but, having voluntarily laid it down, He can take it again.

Christ “is in the bosom of the Father;” being by nature the very substance of God and having life in Himself, He is properly called Jehovah, the self existing one and is thus styled in Jer. 23:56, where it is said that the righteous Branch, who shall execute judgment and justice in the earth, shall be known by the name of Jehovah-tsidekenu -- THE LORD, OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.

 

[MorningGlory]

8 hours ago, guestman said:

As Jehovah told the rebellious nation of Israel who did not listen to him, so do I: "As surely as I am alive,' declares the Sovereign Lord Jehovah, ' I will not respond to your inquiry' "(Eze 20:31) Hence, I will leave this topic and not return.

This is the usual response by those that spread false doctrine; they run away because they know their message falls on deaf ears.  No Christian should EVER consider anything JW.  They are not a Christian organization. 

[KiwiChristian]

On 26/07/2017 at 1:26 AM, guestman said:

 

Since the Organization has received "new light" regarding the 1914 generation, and completely changed their view on this, does this mean that all the former Jehovah's witnesses who were disfellowshipped years ago for the same view the organization is now teaching will automatically be accepted into fellowship again? Were these Ex-Jw's in fact disfellowshipped for truth and knew things that the governing body did not?