Matthew 24: Rapture, Second Coming or Both?

[iamlamad]

20 minutes ago, inchrist said:

Where do you get the word "gone" from?

If something is "out of the way" (Young's literal) it is gone. 

Here is Kenneth Wuest translation:

5–7            Do you not remember that while I was still with you I kept on telling

you these things? And now you know with a positive assurance that which [namely, the

departure of the Church, the saints being assembled together to the Lord] is preventing

his being disclosed [as to his true identity] in his strategic, appointed time, for the

mystery of the aforementioned lawlessness is now operating. Only He [the Holy Spirit] who

is holding [the lawlessness] down, [will do so] until He goes out from the midst [of

humanity].

[iamlamad]

26 minutes ago, Keras said:

It isn't the Great Tribulation that I am referring to here, but the Lord's Day of wrath, and event years before the GT and the Return of Jesus. 

The Day of His wrath will begin at the 6th seal, and continue on through the rest of Revelation. The 70th week will begin with the 7th seal and go to the 7th vial. The days of Great tribulation then are after the start of the 70th week - after the 7th seal - and even after the midpoint - the 7th trumpet.  Therefore the days of great tribulation will be found INSIDE the 70th week and the 70th week will be going on INSIDE the Day of the Lord.  I am amazed you don't know these things. 

For the readers, the "Day of His wrath" is not speaking of a 24 hour day, but an extended time when GOD is ruling, so probably will include the entire   70th week and then the millennium.

[iamlamad]

40 minutes ago, inchrist said:

I did, this is what God had to say:

For God is not a God of disorder

I think if you are ever going to really understand these passages of scripture, you will need a very close walk with the Holy Spirit.

Just so you know, there is a way to get the Holy Spirit to teach: after all, He IS the teacher. But sadly, He is not allowed to teach in many churches. This is why there are so many different denominations - all with different doctrines: they have never got Him to teach.

Read a passage over maybe a hundred times, not trying to understand it, but just meditating on it.

At the same time, pray much in the Holy Spirit. (1 Cor. 14 tells us what this means).  Then wait on God to answer.  He always will.

[iamlamad]

51 minutes ago, inchrist said:

The church does not appear  out the way. 

It would have to disappear out the way. 

Appear and disappear is not the same meaning

Appeared out the midst, not disappeared out the midst.

ek mesou

from, from among, out of the midst" (A Concise Greek-English Dictionary of the New Testament, London: United Bible Societies, 1971, p.114).

You can argue these words till the cows come home, and they will still mean the same thing.  If something is becoming out of the midst, then it will end up came out of the midst, and in that case will be departed. you've got almost every, if not every, English translation against you. Most of them are close to God's intended meaning, in my opinion.

Edited July 5, 2017 by iamlamad

[iamlamad]

6 hours ago, fixerupper said:

Maybe you should pay attention to the context of the passage instead of paying attention to your pre-trib mentors.

9 For they themselves shew of us what manner of entering in we had unto you, and how ye turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God;

10 And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.

This passage is about the Thessalonians who turned from idol worship to Christ.  The wrath Jesus delivers them from is the wrath that is averted by Christ through repentance.

One thing is sure: God is not going to set any appointments for us with His wrath. If you wish to set your own, go ahead on. I believe God will honor it.

[iamlamad]

6 hours ago, fixerupper said:

Maybe you would if you guys wouldn't mistranslate this verse...

Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

For those who go  at the pretrib rapture, THEY will be kept from what is coming, because they will have escaped. Some who are left behind will also escape, for God will protect them. My guess is, they are Jews who will flee.

[iamlamad]

6 hours ago, fixerupper said:

Learn something big guy, it's common sense!  Read the passage again and pay attention!  The word WITHHOLD (restrain) is used TWICE. 

In verse 3 Paul says...

Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

In verse 4 he says...

Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

In verse 5 he says...

Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

Withholdeth is used once In verse 6 he says...

And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

Paul is saying that he already told them WHAT WITHHOLDETH!  So they already knew!  That is an APOSTASY!

The word, "letteth" is the word 'withholdeth' and is also used here in verse 7...

For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

That verse is the one in contention.

Let's read it in another translation.

Kenneth Wuest expanded version:

 5–7            Do you not remember that while I was still with you I kept on telling you these things? And now you know with a positive assurance that which [namely, the departure of the Church, the saints being assembled together to the Lord] is preventing his being disclosed [as to his true identity] in his strategic, appointed time, for the mystery of the aforementioned lawlessness is now operating. Only He [the Holy Spirit] who is holding [the lawlessness] down, [will do so] until He goes out from the midst [of humanity].

 

[Revelation Man]

1 hour ago, n2thelight said:

You as a pre trib cannot under any circumstances use Matt 24 as a rapture,period!!!

You can like many do that it was'nt written 4 the Church,but in light of He telling you He returns AFTER the trib won't work....

Matthew 24:35-44 is the RAPTURE. 

[n2thelight]

2 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

Matthew 24:35-44 is the RAPTURE. 

So you all do go through the trib?

[n2thelight]

2 hours ago, iamlamad said:

One thing is sure: God is not going to set any appointments for us with His wrath. If you wish to set your own, go ahead on. I believe God will honor it.

The seal keeps you from His wrath,not a rapture